Batman writer Grant Morrison says the Dark Knight is Gay

[TheCorpulent1]

Finally! The perfect opportunity to post this has arrived!

 

[3rdstone]

Well, on the gay thing...it's really hard to say what guys' feelings are on the subject due to how repressed and frowned upon homosexuality is in our society.

I think "gay" in the context of our society isn't so much about homosexual sex or attraction, it's more about embracing concepts and aspects of the human psychological makeup that's outside of our society's accepted rules. Batman very much represents someone who doesn't bow to social mores, and maintains his stark individuality and psychological honesty despite how it makes him a social pariah.

I think we all have that part of ourselves that, if we're out in the open, or if we didn't curb to some extent, would be frowned upon by society. And most normal people don't have the courage to be themselves dispite that. I mean, if you're a guy, and you like interior design more than football, that doesn't make you gay, but how many guys would have the courage to admit that in a crowded sports bar?

Batman, however, does have the courage to tell everyone and anyone who and what he really is. And he doesn't relent or repent for anyone. I think that's a very big reason why so many people are attracted to him as a character.

Impressive and very well written post about the subject.

As a straight man past 40 with all the clichés that should follow, I'm not afraid anymore to tell football-fans (in my case european or "soccer" football) how frakking boring I find it compared to looking at classic designed beautiful furniture from the Bauhaus era. But when I was younger, that would be almost impossible. "That's so gaaay!!!"

Your characterization (spelling?) of Batman is also spot on IMHO.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I never liked the assertion that Batman is gay. I mean he could be gay, and I think the character of Midnighter proves he could work very well as a homosexual.

The thing about Batman to me is that I've always been put off by how the comics simply brush his sexuality under the rug. Catwoman rolls up on him, throwing herself at him and if she's forceful enough he'll give her what she wants seemingly uneffected by the whole affair. I don't like that. It's almost as though no thought was put into his sexuality when that kind of thing happens in the comics. Maybe because or in spite of the gay controversey they've copied and pasted James Bond's love life onto Batman. Maybe it's simply because he very superficially resembles characters like James Bond. Thing is, he isn't James Bond.

When you see notorious womanizers like Cyclops, Nightwing, DareDevil and Tony Stark we often see how their love life frequently makes them rethink or revisit their hero life. For Batman though his hero life is a mission, he's like a terminator. For me personally I see him as very unwavering. So much so it's hard for me to picture him on a couch, relaxed, watching chick flicks and idly flirting. Women aren't usually attracted to men who can't relax, and who would constantly blow them off to go train, go fight bad guys or just leave without any notice.

To me superheros have always, in some form, represented something regarding sexual repression. For example, Spider-Man literally cannot talk to girls when he first appears, and through his superhero persona he's able to tap into his masculinity and truly starts to sell himself to others, eventually when he's not even wearing the suit. You see that theme repeated time and again. Comics also seem to indicate many heroes start off as virgins, and they're sexual conquests are usually as banner worthy in the comics as their villain battles (NEXT ISSUE: Cyclops confesses his love to Jean Grey!).

To me, unlike Spider-Man, Cyclops or Nightwing, Batman is the one that just never develops this sexual comfort. Batman's parents were murdered before he had any real, tangible sexual identity. Unlike Superman he's old enough to recall the event vividly. Spider-Man's tragedy follows puberty. Batman, on the other hand, starts his psychotic compulsion at (between 8-12), therefore as far as I'm concerned, properly Bruce is a perpetual man child. While he is able to become more intelligent, and become functional in society, he is unable to ever really truly develop any "adult" desires. Even things like money, to Bruce, seems like means to an end.

I think he ought to be written as a virgin. To me that would be way more unique than him being homosexual. I could almost see him having sex simply to have people who could confirm him as having a sex life. Again though, means to an end.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well, on the gay thing...it's really hard to say what guys' feelings are on the subject due to how repressed and frowned upon homosexuality is in our society.

I think "gay" in the context of our society isn't so much about homosexual sex or attraction, it's more about embracing concepts and aspects of the human psychological makeup that's outside of our society's accepted rules. Batman very much represents someone who doesn't bow to social mores, and maintains his stark individuality and psychological honesty despite how it makes him a social pariah.

I think we all have that part of ourselves that, if we're out in the open, or if we didn't curb to some extent, would be frowned upon by society. And most normal people don't have the courage to be themselves dispite that. I mean, if you're a guy, and you like interior design more than football, that doesn't make you gay, but how many guys would have the courage to admit that in a crowded sports bar?

Batman, however, does have the courage to tell everyone and anyone who and what he really is. And he doesn't relent or repent for anyone. I think that's a very big reason why so many people are attracted to him as a character.

This is rubbish. Most people I know would have the courage to say that if they really liked interior design. Most people have varied interests, and most "normal" (and by normal I mean people who are reasonably socialized) are quiet willing to talk about these things despite what people think. Anyone who would is massively insecure about themselves. No one cares what you do or do not like. Nerds often assume such clique-ish behavior exists beyond our younger years, but no, it really disappears. Nerdiness also is often characterized by an inability to see the perspective of others; often they assume another person cares as much about their pet hobby as they do, whether it's hate or affection. Their hyper focus often interferes with their ability to see how complex and complicated other people are, and how they are far less attached to what interests them.

What you're really hitting at here is that superheroes are nerds. There what nerds would like to be. Batman is a horrible person if we were to place him in the real world. First, simply google 'Phoenix Jones' to see how the criminal justice system would view Batman. I won't bring up my detailed essay on everything that makes Batman unfeasible in real life, but most people here already know and say the same things. Socially speaking Batman seems unapologetic, but in fact is massively insecure. He does "lie" about himself. Hence the term "secret" identity. The nerdiest of the nerds definitely often seem to use their hobbies as escapes and defense mechanisms, just like Batman.

Batman is sociopathic, as are most heroes to varying degrees. They go on self-imposed missions, something most normal people do not do. They also think the world, and not them, needs fixing.

Most people are very frank about themselves. In fact, as you kind of said there, most of the time "society" "frowns" upon people because of their frankness. Humans are communicative and social by nature. Batman, on the other hand, is neither. Think about it, in the real world, humans who usually communicate more, and are unafraid to reveal themselves are the successful ones. Politicians and Athletes are all about self promotion and advertising, and ironically much of their **** is public knowledge. It's their ability to act unphased by these things that ultimately make them hard to knock off their pedestal. Batman may seem unphased by popular opinion, but Bruce Wayne isn't. He, like any other hero, seems to need a costume to accomplish what normal people do naturally. Comics usually are all about isolation and solitary people. I think that's largely due to their audience, but probably also the writers. Writing is a very solitary activity as is comic reading. This is not to say that comics only appeal to one group or only represent one thing, but in the basis of many superheroes that theme is definitely present.

 

[Mystirious]

Most people have varied interests, and most "normal" (and by normal I mean people who are reasonably socialized) are quiet willing to talk about these things despite what people think. Anyone who would is massively insecure about themselves.

I have certainly never cared about the opinions of others on my sexuality. I'm a proud lesbian woman who's been out a long time and I don't remotely care how other people feel about it

I have always been proud of being openly lesbian and millions of normal lgbt people all over the world are the same

We don't care what straight people think of our sexuality. The thoughts, feelings and opinions of straight people on my sexuality is utterly irrelevant to me. I don't care if bigoted idiots don't like people being lgbt. I'm still going to be open and proud about my sexuality, I'm still going to live the same lifestyle and I really don't remotely care if it offends or upsets the bigoted

Those of us in the lgbt community are proud of who we are

On the subject of Batman I don't think he's gay. He's had many romantic and sexual relationships with women. There's no reason he couldn't be bisexual though but i doubt DC would ever have him be so

Whatever his sexuality he definitely isn't in love with Alfred or Robin. Alfred is like a father to him and Dick, Jason and Tim were like his sons. Having him date them would be creepier than that issue of Superman where he wants to marry his cousin

 

[RoughNTumble]

grant morrison being provocative

getting people talking

maybe getting a few people interested in the character who think he's no more than the parody tony daniel is currently writing

 

[CConn]

Normally, I'd agree.

But I also kinda think Grant doesn't give a **** about what people think too.

Also, O_P_ and mysti are missing the point entirely.

 

[Harlekin]

Just for the record; you guys are very comfortable with their sexuality. A lot of people still aren't. Don't speak for the masses.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yeah I wasn't talking about being proud enough to state your sexuality if you're gay. I mean it's safer now than it had been, but still not quite universally accepted. I was talking about being so insecure you couldn't say you liked interior design. No one gives a sh** what you like when it comes to stuff like that. If someone eggs you about that stuff and it bothers you you're just massively insecure and take your hobbies way too personally. I find nerds who think they're persecuted or feel upset that someone made fun of their hobby to be very insecure and self centered. Much like I would if it was interior design. Sexuality is much more inherently personal. You can wake up one day and no longer be a comic fan or interior designer on a whim.

 

[jonathancrane]

I am inclined to believe that this is the acid talking.

In any case, Batman's a fictional character, one of America's Gods, if you may. I look at him as I would any other entity from classic mythology: my first concern is not about the sexuality. I could give a **** less what he does in the bedroom with the curtains down. All I care about is his embodiment of the ideal qualities in man: selflessness, courage, and the willingness to do what is right.

Besides, Grant is ignoring a lot of comics in his argument: has he read The Widening Gyre, for instance? There are countless others.

 

[Victra]

I can't stop laughing! HAHAHA

 

[jaymes_e06]

Well, on the gay thing...it's really hard to say what guys' feelings are on the subject due to how repressed and frowned upon homosexuality is in our society.

I think "gay" in the context of our society isn't so much about homosexual sex or attraction, it's more about embracing concepts and aspects of the human psychological makeup that's outside of our society's accepted rules. Batman very much represents someone who doesn't bow to social mores, and maintains his stark individuality and psychological honesty despite how it makes him a social pariah.

I think we all have that part of ourselves that, if we're out in the open, or if we didn't curb to some extent, would be frowned upon by society. And most normal people don't have the courage to be themselves dispite that. I mean, if you're a guy, and you like interior design more than football, that doesn't make you gay, but how many guys would have the courage to admit that in a crowded sports bar?

Batman, however, does have the courage to tell everyone and anyone who and what he really is. And he doesn't relent or repent for anyone. I think that's a very big reason why so many people are attracted to him as a character.

Everything you said touched me deaply *cough, cough* in a platonic way of course....