Ben Affleck To Team With DC’s Geoff Johns On Standalone ‘Batman’ Film - Part 1

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Ok, some fans freak out. And? This is nothing new and it's always going to exist. In all honesty it's as if this discussion amounts to saying 'you shouldn't say this' to people. Reality is people are going to be opinionated about these films and will want to discuss them with others.

I'm not suggesting censoring one's speech. I'm merely suggesting that fans be more mindful about how to consume and analyze media because the media benefits from sowing seeds of negativity and controversy. Opinions and discussions are great! But it would be better if the media wasn't actively provoking these discussions by publishing clickbait that actually doesn't include new information and putting out nebulous unsourced gut feelings not even fit to publish. You're acting like we have no power to change or affect our reality in order to promote better journalism and more productive discussion. I don't agree with that.
 
Statesman and a true leader... wtf? The directors are immature... yet in the same rant the DCU gets regarded as a nation or army.

I'm done. I'm just done.
 
Statesman and a true leader... wtf? The directors are immature... yet in the same rant the DCU gets regarded as a nation or army.

I'm done. I'm just done.

In what way does statesman or true leader automatically mean anything to do with an army or nation?? :whatever: Rein it in chap, rein it in. Semantics are rather dull. You got the meaning of my post just fine :up:
 
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I'm not sure what getting up in arms about fan discussing and speculating about the film actually solves. In all honesty, fans are going to discuss and dissect things the average joe isn't because we're emotionally attached to these projects. But at the end of the day there's nothing fans can do about what the media asks Affleck. If they want to ask him about the film they are going to do it. We aren't the ones shoving the microphone in his face and looking for a quote.

Nobody is up in arms about discussing and speculating about films. That's a fairly strong mischaracterization, isn't it? It's akin to Affleck saying he plans to make a movie and is working on it and won't do it if it's not great, but everyone saying he said he might not do it and claiming he's flip-flopping.

What was said -- very clearly, I think -- is that fans constantly reacting so harshly and loudly, engaging in widespread negative public reactions, and promoting story after story that spread the false impressions and add to the frenzy, is a problem. And it's very obvious that these stories making more extreme and histrionic claims are the precise result of the degree to which people are reading them and spreading them around everywhere. Who mostly reads, reacts strongly, and shares those stories? We all know it's mostly fans, obviously. No point denying that or pretending otherwise.

Claiming there's nothing fans can do about it is simply not true, and is letting everyone off the hook for their own role. We ALL have a role to play. As a journalist, I have a role to play, and I need to be mindful of that and take it serious, which I try to do -- I try to tell folks to be more calm, I publish stories that I try to source carefully, I consistently condemn clickbaiting and reactionary media reports, and I try to remind folks that those stories keep being written because everyone keeps clicking on them.

Saying fans have no control over how much the press pushes these stories is ignoring the fact fans are the primary audience for them, and that fans are the ones dissecting the stuff and reacting emotionally to it -- which, after all, you readily admit, yes? We may as well say fans have no control over the content in the comics, and that our choice to buy and talk about specific comics doesn't affect what comics get made or what direction they take etc.

Fans (including me, since I'm also a fan) aren't solely responsible, which is why I focus a great deal on criticizing the press for this, obviously. But the press aren't solely responsible either, and fans shouldn't just deny their own role in how this stuff happens. We are the audience, we feed these stories with our choice not only to read them but -- most importantly -- to share them and to talk about them and to make it clear we want more of it. When we stop doing that, the amount of it stops. You think if everyone were scrambling for more info about Live By Night and wondering if Affleck were making an Accountant sequel, those wouldn't be the stories the press wrote instead?
 
So apparently Affleck is eyeing Sienna Miller for some role.
 
Ok, some fans freak out. And? This is nothing new and it's always going to exist. In all honesty it's as if this discussion amounts to saying 'you shouldn't say this' to people. Reality is people are going to be opinionated about these films and will want to discuss them with others.

Well I think if that's the message you're getting from all of this, then you're missing 99% of what's really being said about it. The point isn't "fans shouldn't discuss things on message boards," and nobody's said anything resembling that, as far as anything I've seen here. We are talking about widespread fan reactions and feeding of the media frenzy, which IS a direct extension of fan interest and spreading of those things all over social media. This isn't just happening on this message board -- I'm all over social media, and have a large number of followers and readers, and the constant spreading of the more clickbait articles and speculation is combined with large amounts of worried fan conversation and anxiety, non-stop questioning of every media outlet and @'s to the folks involved (when they're on social media platforms), and so on.

I have literally had to create a long list of people I've muted because they flood me with non-stop daily questions arising from every new rumor, every new interview, etc about these films (DCU, MCU, etc). And I'm not remotely the most-read person covering this stuff. I see the comment threads on these articles all over, I see the social media, and it's pretty glaringly obvious that a large segment of fandom is very loud about their non-stop anxiety and concerns, and they are always pushing for more-more-more information and sharing every story and rumor that comes along.

This board is relatively calm and thoughtful, aside from a few extreme examples. Social media isn't like that, it's vastly worse, as are the message boards on so many of these articles. I'm serious, I wish I could show you my @ mentions and how I am bombarded with questions fueled by DCU fan fears and anxiety. If I'm getting that much of it, and if I see so much of it elsewhere, then the other press outlets get it and see it too, and that's what motivates so many of them to keep pushing these stories. It's called "clickbait" for a reason -- it baits you into clicking, and the "you" is "fans" of course. And from there it spreads, the stories are shared, there are floods of questions and reactions all of social media and message boards, etc etc etc.

I guarantee you, the studio and reps all know this and see it. I talk with them about it regularly, fan reactions and the fact fans encourage this by being such a loud and consistent source for spreading it and demanding more, is a topic that comes up among the press and editors, among the studios, and so on. This isn't speculation or opinion, it's simple truth and I'm telling you something most of you probably already know anyway since it's been happening a long time already and is just getting worse lately.

Nobody is saying "don't discuss it" or "don't feel strongly." We're saying, "If you keep feeding the demand for these stories, the press hears and obliges, and that is creating an overall problem that could have negative consequences you'll all hate down the road." It's all matters of degree, of trying to be realistic about what's happening, and about seeing our own roles in what's going on and deciding to try to be a positive influence or at least not be a negative influence. You can dismiss it, you can dislike hearing it, you can disagree and continue apace, you can resent it and argue against hearing it, but if it winds up causing results that upset you then you can't really say you weren't warned and it'll be hard to have much real right to complain.
 
I'm not suggesting censoring one's speech. I'm merely suggesting that fans be more mindful about how to consume and analyze media because the media benefits from sowing seeds of negativity and controversy. Opinions and discussions are great! But it would be better if the media wasn't actively provoking these discussions by publishing clickbait that actually doesn't include new information and putting out nebulous unsourced gut feelings not even fit to publish. You're acting like we have no power to change or affect our reality in order to promote better journalism and more productive discussion. I don't agree with that.

THIS, yes!
 
So apparently Affleck is eyeing Sienna Miller for some role.
Maybe. Or perhaps he was going to say something hypothetical and was afraid that everyone would try to make a story out of nothing.

Here's the quote in question:

“She’s perfect for anything. She could do anything. Vicki Vale’s kind of *****y, I think she’s better for…well, we won’t say that.” Clearly worried about creating a social media uproar by potentially revealing a role he has in mind for her or even the female lead in The Batman, Affleck stopped there, but Miller herself has said she fancies taking on Catwoman…

http://www.heyuguys.com/exclusive-ben-affleck-talks-batman-in-justice-league/
 
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^That's a possibility too. But I certainly wouldn't object Sienna Miller in some role.
 
Maybe. Or perhaps he was going to say something hypothetical and was afraid that everyone would try to make a story out of nothing.

Here's the quote in question:

http://www.heyuguys.com/exclusive-ben-affleck-talks-batman-in-justice-league/

You are correct, whether or not she winds up cast in The Batman is a separate matter, but in that particular moment he was talking off the cuff saying as a performer she's probably better suited for a different character for example. I won't be surprised if she winds up in a role in the film, but for now he's not actually literally eyeing her for a specific role right at that moment when he's talking about it.
 
Lot of recent talk here about how frustrated Affleck is acting, etc.

Not sure where that's coming from, to be honest.

Affleck may well privately be frustrated, but he certainly isn't showing it publicly. And he's certainly not "complaining" publicly, as some have accused him of doing.

On Kimmel, he said in a largely joking tone, "it's really frustrating" in regard to no one caring about LIVE BY NIGHT and wanting to know about THE BATMAN instead, not about people wanting to know about THE BATMAN, period. He was smiling and making light of the situation, having a fun moment with it. This isn't a man who is presenting the development of THE BATMAN as a major burden and something he doesn't want to do. It is the clickbait journalism that is fostering this idea. And it's not even subtle. Some of the titles of those articles are pathetically transparent.

As Mark said earlier, and I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but it'd be nice if people would just start listening to what he's actually saying and taking it at face value VS seeking some hidden, secret meaning in everything.

I think he's handled himself quite well, throughout runup to and poor reception of BVS, JUSTICE LEAGUE development, and now THE BATMAN.

Finally, this whole situation strikes me as a microcosm of the situation the DCU faces in the media and pop culture now. Because the popular narrative now is that the DC is bad, troubled, rudderless, etc. Guess how that narrative became the popular one? Because it wasn't just critics reviews of MAN OF STEEL, BATMAN VS SUPERMAN and SUICIDE SQUAD. It was article after article that fed on fan negativity and paranoia and an endless cycle and repetition of the same negative events and ideas.

Journalists could stand to be more responsible. So could consumers and fans.
 
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Well I think if that's the message you're getting from all of this, then you're missing 99% of what's really being said about it. The point isn't "fans shouldn't discuss things on message boards," and nobody's said anything resembling that, as far as anything I've seen here. We are talking about widespread fan reactions and feeding of the media frenzy, which IS a direct extension of fan interest and spreading of those things all over social media. This isn't just happening on this message board -- I'm all over social media, and have a large number of followers and readers, and the constant spreading of the more clickbait articles and speculation is combined with large amounts of worried fan conversation and anxiety, non-stop questioning of every media outlet and @'s to the folks involved (when they're on social media platforms), and so on.

I have literally had to create a long list of people I've muted because they flood me with non-stop daily questions arising from every new rumor, every new interview, etc about these films (DCU, MCU, etc). And I'm not remotely the most-read person covering this stuff. I see the comment threads on these articles all over, I see the social media, and it's pretty glaringly obvious that a large segment of fandom is very loud about their non-stop anxiety and concerns, and they are always pushing for more-more-more information and sharing every story and rumor that comes along.

This board is relatively calm and thoughtful, aside from a few extreme examples. Social media isn't like that, it's vastly worse, as are the message boards on so many of these articles. I'm serious, I wish I could show you my @ mentions and how I am bombarded with questions fueled by DCU fan fears and anxiety. If I'm getting that much of it, and if I see so much of it elsewhere, then the other press outlets get it and see it too, and that's what motivates so many of them to keep pushing these stories. It's called "clickbait" for a reason -- it baits you into clicking, and the "you" is "fans" of course. And from there it spreads, the stories are shared, there are floods of questions and reactions all of social media and message boards, etc etc etc.

I guarantee you, the studio and reps all know this and see it. I talk with them about it regularly, fan reactions and the fact fans encourage this by being such a loud and consistent source for spreading it and demanding more, is a topic that comes up among the press and editors, among the studios, and so on. This isn't speculation or opinion, it's simple truth and I'm telling you something most of you probably already know anyway since it's been happening a long time already and is just getting worse lately.

Nobody is saying "don't discuss it" or "don't feel strongly." We're saying, "If you keep feeding the demand for these stories, the press hears and obliges, and that is creating an overall problem that could have negative consequences you'll all hate down the road." It's all matters of degree, of trying to be realistic about what's happening, and about seeing our own roles in what's going on and deciding to try to be a positive influence or at least not be a negative influence. You can dismiss it, you can dislike hearing it, you can disagree and continue apace, you can resent it and argue against hearing it, but if it winds up causing results that upset you then you can't really say you weren't warned and it'll be hard to have much real right to complain.

That's all well and good, but the reality is you're not going to be able to change mosts people's behaviour over this who are already acting that way. Especially the diehard DCEU fans who are overly sensitive to any negativity towards this series. Honestly I can't speak for everyone else but if something were to happen like Affleck leaving or films being canceled or whatever I'm probably not going to lose sleep over it. We most likely wouldn't be in this situation of fans questioning everything had a bit more time and care been placed into creating the DCEU in the first place. The tension that's been created has come about in part because the quality of the films and character portrayals have been very questionable for a lot of people, and for DC fans it's basically turned into something of a civil war with fans of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman turning on each other. I frankly don't like the environment these films have created.
 
That's all well and good, but the reality is you're not going to be able to change mosts people's behaviour over this who are already acting that way. Especially the diehard DCEU fans who are overly sensitive to any negativity towards this series. Honestly I can't speak for everyone else but if something were to happen like Affleck leaving or films being canceled or whatever I'm probably not going to lose sleep over it. We most likely wouldn't be in this situation of fans questioning everything had a bit more time and care been placed into creating the DCEU in the first place. The tension that's been created has come about in part because the quality of the films and character portrayals have been very questionable for a lot of people, and for DC fans it's basically turned into something of a civil war with fans of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman turning on each other. I frankly don't like the environment these films have created.

Coming from you this is a joke. Few people have fanned the flames of negativity on these very forums the way you have. But of course you're not going to lose sleep or anything.
 
I'm not suggesting censoring one's speech. I'm merely suggesting that fans be more mindful about how to consume and analyze media because the media benefits from sowing seeds of negativity and controversy. Opinions and discussions are great! But it would be better if the media wasn't actively provoking these discussions by publishing clickbait that actually doesn't include new information and putting out nebulous unsourced gut feelings not even fit to publish. You're acting like we have no power to change or affect our reality in order to promote better journalism and more productive discussion. I don't agree with that.

It would help if the diehard DCEU fans weren't so sensitive about the bloody series and stopped clicking on said links. The issue is some people don't like the idea of these films not being universally loved. The discussion would be a lot better if those fans simply accepted they like movies many people consider bad or mediocre. There's no shame in liking bad movie, we've all got our guilty pleasures in our movie collection we know most people hate. I get wanting others to like these films, but the level of defensiveness towards them is honestly absurd.
 
Coming from you this is a joke. Few people have fanned the flames of negativity on these very forums the way you have. But of course you're not going to lose sleep or anything.

See this is the problem. You assume automatically I'm fanning flames simply because I have a differing opinion from yours. Don't make the assumption that I don't want these films to work or that I want to dislike these movies, these are my all time favourite comic characters and even if I don't agree with the direction they've taken them I still at the very least want something that is of a decent enough quality.
 
It would help if the diehard DCEU fans weren't so sensitive about the bloody series and stopped clicking on said links. The issue is some people don't like the idea of these films not being universally loved. The discussion would be a lot better if those fans simply accepted they like movies many people consider bad or mediocre. There's no shame in liking bad movie, we've all got our guilty pleasures in our movie collection we know most people hate. I get wanting others to like these films, but the level of defensiveness towards them is honestly absurd.

:up:
 
It would help if the diehard DCEU fans weren't so sensitive about the bloody series and stopped clicking on said links. The issue is some people don't like the idea of these films not being universally loved. The discussion would be a lot better if those fans simply accepted they like movies many people consider bad or mediocre. There's no shame in liking bad movie, we've all got our guilty pleasures in our movie collection we know most people hate. I get wanting others to like these films, but the level of defensiveness towards them is honestly absurd.

:applaud
 
My guess, since it's likely not quantifiable, is that it's fairly even between haters and lovers clicking on bait articles. What's absurd isn't that people would spend time on something they love, but that people who hate spend equal or more time hating or concern trolling. The opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. Also, it seems to me the haters are more defensive. Their view is the majority, yet they feel the need to repeat themselves ad nauseam and create faux controversy to keep the hate flames burning. What's with the need to flame bait and concern troll? Can't you (general you) even accept that a minority like these films?
 
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No to Sienna Miller being anywhere near this film. That is all.
 
Does anyone feel like "The Batman" might be another vanity project for Affleck?


A lot of the Live By Night reviews slam the film for being just that.

And see the Youtube "Double Toasted" review for it and you'll see what I mean.
 
Does anyone feel like "The Batman" might be another vanity project for Affleck?


A lot of the Live By Night reviews slam the film for being just that.

And see the Youtube "Double Toasted" review for it and you'll see what I mean.

Depends of what you mean by "vanity project". I mean such a notion would beg the question of whether or not taking on a project out of fandom for the material along with handling more than one part of the workload is inherently a vanity project.

I mean at this point, Affleck seems to have shown he's a fan of the books by this author and wanted to direct movies based around them and whether or not his talents were suited for it is up for debate.

With Batman though, only time will tell but based on the reception of his performance as Batman I wouldn't go saying this is him going out of his reach/depth to try and pull off something he isn't capable of.

I personally would say he's more than capable but again that's all Debatable at this stage
 
My guess, since it's likely not quantifiable, is that it's fairly even between haters and lovers clicking on bait articles. What's absurd isn't that people would spend time on something they love, but that people who hate spend equal or more time hating or concern trolling. The opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. Also, it seems to me the haters are more defensive. Their view is the majority, yet they feel the need to repeat themselves ad nauseam and create faux controversy to keep the hate flames burning. What's with the need to flame bait and concern troll? Can't you (general you) even accept that a minority like these films?

Also a good point, I mean I have seen examples of extremism in reaction on both sides but what people don't seem to understand about why some defenders may get defensive about liking the DCEU is because atleast in certain areas, people who say they like any DCEU film have opened themselves up to being either mocked and laughed at or told they are wrong for liking said movie. I've seen this type of stuff in the BVS forums along with posts that have a very condescending undertone of "How can you say you're a fan when this film made [insert perceived change here] to the characters?" along with the sentiment on certain sites where defenders say "You're too stupid to understand it!" that is just as bad.

So All in all, I can definitely say I get where you're coming from on this matter in light of the fact that internet "journalists" that love to clickbait feed into this stuff very easily and do nothing but to help cause even more division.
 
Fans don't exist in isolation though, fans are a part of general audience and when it comes to Batman, there are more Batman fans than any other Superhero fans out there.

Media and News outlets only ask the questions that people want them to be asked, in other words if there is little interest in some movie, then reporters too would not bother.

So, it a cycle, one feeds off the other.
Close. Spidey still has that title it would appear. Still, it is a hell of a lot of people.
 
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