Ben Affleck To Team With DC’s Geoff Johns On Standalone ‘Batman’ Film - Part 1

[Boom]

I'm not seeing diminishing returns at all. Their last film was a very strong financial success.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Suicide Squad made a boat load of cash despite its rating.

For its budget, or in general? Because if that is the benchmark, then MoS and BvS did very poorly. And I do think it is a question of legs. All 3 films opened well, all three did not have good legs.

It was 4 years ago they hand a billion dollar player in Batman. What happened to that?

 

[Boom]

It still made LESS THAN BVS therefore diminishing returns you cant deny this & if Jl of all of the DCEU movies can not make $1 Billion none of them will

My understanding is that Suicide Squad outperformed studio expectations. And SS was not as expensive as BvS, so while it made less than that film overall, its margin of profit was nonetheless impressive.

I of course acknowledge this as someone who absolutely detests SS.

 

[Boom]

You dont see diminishing returns ?

BVS = Worldwide: $873,260,194
SS = Worldwide: $745,600,054

Regardless it made less you cant spin this

I wonder if Marvel screamed "diminishing returns" when Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The Winter Soldier failed to earn a billion dollars after Avengers and Iron Man 3 did. People tend to forget that it took Marvel six films to crack that billion dollar mark. And without looking, I'd venture a guess that each of the Phase One Marvel films didn't earn more money than its immediate predecessor. I know for a fact The First Avenger wasn't as profitable as Iron Man. I wonder if the studio had their hand over the panic button?

Each project brings different expectations from the studio. While a Batman and Superman movie should (in theory) clear a billion dollars, Suicide Squad performed stronger than they anticipated. There's more to this than just comparing final box office numbers.

 

[The Joker]

It still made LESS THAN BVS therefore diminishing returns you cant deny this & if Jl of all of the DCEU movies can not make $1 Billion none of them will

Yeah but nobody was expecting SS to make 800 million or more, unlike BvS which had expectations of getting to a billion because it was headed by Batman and Superman, two major icons (Batman's last two solo movies made a billion each). For a movie headed largely by unknown characters (Joker and Harley are the only exception), it surpassed expectations financially. Which is unfortunate because the movie was horrendous. But nevertheless it made a good profit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I guess some people will always be in denial about the state the DCEU is currently in WW & JL could crash & burn (which will effect the future of the DCEU if the worst happens) & some would still be in denial

Boom is not in denial. He is right, SS made money. The problem is MoS and BvS did not.

 

[Boom]

Boom is not in denial. He is right, SS made money. The problem is MoS and BvS did not.

They made money. The problem is the money they made wasn't near what the studio was expecting. The WB executives were anticipating a billion dollars off BvS. Easily. In fact, I bet they thought it was a foregone conclusion. It may have done well enough to turn a bit of a profit for them, but you just know it had to have bothered them. All of these changes that happened with Justice League? Guarantee you they were motivated by that failure to hit a billion dollars, more than anything.

MoS actually ended up performing quite well on video release, if memory serves. But yeah, when your former CEO is going on about how MoS is going to break a billion dollars, and it does just a little over half of that, you're going to have egg on your face.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They made money. The problem is the money they made wasn't near what the studio was expecting. The WB executives were anticipating a billion dollars off BvS. Easily. In fact, I bet they thought it was a foregone conclusion.

MoS actually ended up performing quite well on video release, if memory serves. But yeah, when your former CEO is going on about how MoS is going to break a billion dollars, and it does just a little over half of that, you're going to have egg on your face.

It is rather debatable if they made money, outside of merch of course. Deadline said more then once BvS had to clear $900m. I think the number was $931m, but it has been a while. And that was once you started adding on the ancillaries, like home media and tv rights. MoS did well on home video because they sold it cheap really early on. Hence the appearance of Batman Begins progress.

They spent a stupid amount of money on BvS and MoS. Which is probably why they were saying the movies were going to clear a billion easy. They kind of needed to. This is why stuff like GCS is being pitched now. They can make it on the somewhat cheap and bringing in $500m, good money. The Batman though, that has to make a billion.

 

[Boom]

At that point at least MARVEL at least had a good will & trust built with the audience & fans while every other DCEU movie has had rumors certain movies being in trouble & the last two times it happened everything turned out true

You're moving the goal posts. My point still stands. If you look at the cold hard numbers, which was what you were trying to argue, the Phase One Marvel films also showed signs of " diminishing returns," by your definition. But again, different films bring different expectations. Guarantee you Marvel was thrilled with the numbers for The First Avenger, despite it not making as much as Iron Man.

"Good will" is an entirely different subject altogether. And honestly, audiences tend to be a lot more forgiving towards a critically panned film if it ends up being a fun time all the same. That's ultimately what killed BvS's legs. People walking out of the theater thinking, "Well that wasn't much fun, was it?" Had that film been a bit more entertaining, audience-friendly, and accessible to children, it'd have cleared that billion dollar mark. Easy. And that's precisely what they're aiming to do with Justice League.

Suicide Squad was a much more fun film, and look how that turned out. The general audience loved it, reviews be damned.

 

[Benal]

About $9M weekend for Live By Night, according to projections based on early Friday. Below the likes of Monster Trucks and The Bye Bye Man. Will finish its run with, at most, $27M domestic (I think it will start losing theater showings fast) and over seas doesn't look too good either.

A $65M production with a big marketing push. This movie will lose a lot of money for WB.

Sucks for Ben to be in pre-production on the Batman when all of this is happening. Not a confidence boost.

$6M opening weekend (4-day, because of MLK) for Live By Night. Even lower than the worst projections. It bombed overseas too. I don't think it can even reach half of its production budget worldwide. OUCH!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're moving the goal posts. My point still stands. If you look at the cold hard numbers, which was what you were trying to argue, the Phase One Marvel films also showed signs of " diminishing returns," by your definition. But again, different films bring different expectations. Guarantee you Marvel was thrilled with the numbers for The First Avenger, despite it not making as much as Iron Man.

"Good will" is an entirely different subject altogether. And honestly, audiences tend to be a lot more forgiving towards a critically panned film if it ends up being a fun time all the same. That's ultimately what killed BvS's legs. People walking out of the theater thinking, "Well that wasn't much fun, was it?" Had that film been a bit more entertaining, it'd have cleared that billion dollar mark. Easy.

Suicide Squad was a much more fun film, and look how that turned out. The general audience loved it, reviews be damned.

Is that true? Saying general audiences loved it when it opened that big, and did not have good legs?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

$6M opening weekend (4-day, because of MLK) for Live By Night. Even lower than the worst projections. It bombed overseas too. I don't think it can even reach half of its production budget worldwide. OUCH!

Is this really relevant for Batman? Ben is probably sleeping on a bed of cash these days anyways.

 

[Boom]

Is that true? Saying general audiences loved it when it opened that big, and did not have good legs?

A bit of an assumption on my part, admittedly. But regardless of overall legs, I feel comfortable saying that a movie that made $800 million was loved by the GA. That's a strong box office performance, and die-hard fans alone can't account for it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A bit of an assumption on my part, admittedly. But regardless of overall legs, I feel comfortable saying that a movie that made $800 million was loved by the GA.

But then they loved BvS as well then...

 

[Boom]

Two completely different situations between both phase 1s

Before The Avengers in 2012 one could argue Justice League was more well known & more popular. MARVEL was introducing characters most of the general audience probably did not even care about but knew who they were. The DCEU started out with one of the most popular heroes out there MARVEL had to actually introduce Iron Man & The Avengers to the audience since most people likely did not know their stories like they do with the Justice League since the WB at least kept those guys in the spot light outside of the movies & Superman & Batman at least had plenty of media outside of movies & comics etc. MARVEL had to work from the ground up

Well we will just have to see how Justice League does. We can't really speak for a film's performance when it hasn't come out yet. For all we know, JL clears a billion dollars easily and this is all a moot point.

If it fails to clear a billion dollars? I still don't think it would kill the DCEU outright, but people are definitely losing their jobs - Snyder being the obvious choice.

 

[Boom]

But then they loved BvS as well then...

That honestly wouldn't surprise me either. It's easy for us to look at the RT numbers or the box office totals and assume, "Well most people hated the movie." But that's still just an assumption on our part, isn't it?

I emphatically loathe BvS, but I confess that most of the friends and family I've spoken to didn't really mind it all that much. It truly wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was the overall impression from the GA.

Like MoS, it's also performing very well on video release. So there is that to consider.

 

[Boom]

If the combo of WW / JL fails Box Office & Critically wise thats should be the end of the DCEU. At the very least BVS & SS had a year apart from each other giving people time to sort of forget about the mess that was BVS. But if WW is bad that will hurt JL the Domestic Audience is clearly wising up & not letting trailer hype fool them. It is a bad idea releasing WW & JL so closer to each other one could hurt the other & Snyder is technically already gone so if JL does not make $1 Billion he will just make sure hes never near Warner Brothers lol

Well yeah, if both films outright fail financially, then that might wrap up the whole affair. I don't think either of them will fail at the box office, though I do anticipate both will be met with poor reviews. Just my gut feeling.

 

[Tra-El]

The sad thing is JL was green lit with Snyder before BvS was even released. That was a big mistake. They might not have hired Snyder to direct if they saw what a balls up he made of BvS, and how deservedly it was criticized.

WB is going full throttle with the DCEU. It's all white noise and hot air, but the proof is in the pudding. Snyder is still going to be attached to everything in some capacity. Regardless of Man of Steel's reaction, WB handed him their huge Batman v Superman film. Justice League is already garnering huge attention at every TINY turn and the marketing isn't even close to beginning yet. In the midst of Batman v Superman's reaction, as of now, Snyder is still on for Justice League 2 so regardless, Snyder is one of WB's Golden Boys and they will continue to ride him. I know fans who hate him can't stomach to hear that, but though some minor changes have takin' place, every single move points to riding or dying with the DCEU brand.

 

[dhandler01]

It's you who should calm down.

I am not angry...I am literally laughing at you and the rest of the worry warts. The best part of all this is you guys arguing with an actual journalist with actual sources who is telling you are wrong and your only proof is clickbait garbage and your own personal feelings. It is like an episode of the Twilight Zone t:

 

[dhandler01]

Is that true? Saying general audiences loved it when it opened that big, and did not have good legs?

Suicide Squad didnt have as bad of legs as you think it did. The opening was huge and it dropped off but it was still making money for quite a while. The final multiplier was I believe 2.44 which is better than Avengers 2, Iron Man 3 and isnt that far behind Deadpool. It isnt great mind you but it wasnt crapping the bed either.

The movie had a $175 million budget and cleared $745 million worldwide without China. (which is why it had the "diminishing returns" Fan Boy is going on about) even if you use the "double the budget" idea to figure out how much it made it still was a massive hit in the eyes of the studio.

What Boom is saying is, if they make movies that can clear $400 million dollar profits even have the "double the budget" figure they will be able to poo poo the critics. (this holds only for non Justice League movies) I agree...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That honestly wouldn't surprise me either. It's easy for us to look at the RT numbers or the box office totals and assume, "Well most people hated the movie." But that's still just an assumption on our part, isn't it?

I emphatically loathe BvS, but I confess that most of the friends and family I've spoken to didn't really mind it all that much. It truly wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was the overall impression from the GA.

Like MoS, it's also performing very well on video release. So there is that to consider.

But then how did they not get to a billion? What happened to the legs?

 

[Boom]

But then how did they not get to a billion? What happened to the legs?

The film wasn't accessible to a wider audience, I guess. It wasn't exactly kid friendly. A more kid-friendly film would've taken it over the top, I'd wager.

On paper, a movie with Batman and Superman should make a billion dollars. I still don't find $800 million a number a scoff at though. So I'd say it was successful, but not as successful as it could have been had the movie been a bit lighter and more universally accessible. Just my two cents.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Suicide Squad didnt have as bad of legs as you think it did. The opening was huge and it dropped off but it was still making money for quite a while. The final multiplier was I believe 2.44 which is better than Avengers 2, Iron Man 3 and isnt that far behind Deadpool. It isnt great mind you but it wasnt crapping the bed either.

The movie had a $175 million budget and cleared $745 million worldwide without China. (which is why it had the "diminishing returns" Fan Boy is going on about) even if you use the "double the budget" idea to figure out how much it made it still was a massive hit in the eyes of the studio.

What Boom is saying is, if they make movies that can clear $400 million dollar profits even have the "double the budget" figure they will be able to poo poo the critics. (this holds only for non Justice League movies) I agree...

That isn't $400m profit. Not close. That is if you think there was no marketing or expense for distribution, etc. Though yes, SS made good money compared to the other two.

Deadpool at legs of 2.75. Iron Man 3 made over $400m domestically. AoU made $459m domestically, 1.4bill ww. It is a bit different to not have great legs when you are finishing that high. GotG is he perfect parallel and ended up beating it domestically, even when spotting it $40m to start.

 

[metaphysician]

The Transformers series continues to rake in cash despite nearly every one of those movies being critical bombs.

People are going to enjoy what they enjoy. Not so sure a critic review is going to sway them.

And would you be content with the DCEU being Transformers quality?

 

[BatLobster]

I think in the context of SS getting destroyed by critics, coming off the heels of BvS and not necessarily being a "big name" property despite having Harley and Joker, it probably did outperform expectations at the box office.

I guess time will tell if this was anomaly or what. I think how Justice League performs will be a big indicator of where DC is at, since it's the team up movie that is supposed to be the big payoff for all this world-building. It would be somewhat ironic if it doesn't make more than BvS, considering BvS largely exists as a shortcut to get to a Justice League movie.

The film wasn't accessible to a wider audience, I guess. It wasn't exactly kid friendly. A more kid-friendly film would've taken it over the top, I'd wager.

On paper, a movie with Batman and Superman should make a billion dollars. I still don't find $800 million a number a scoff at though. So I'd say it was successful, but not as successful as it could have been had the movie been a bit lighter and more universally accessible. Just my two cents.

It's definitely not a number to scoff at. The movie was neither a screaming success nor a total failure at the box office. It was a solid performer, but clearly didn't reach the potential of what a movie of that size could've achieved. That said, the poor legs is a concern because that could potentially carry over into the sequel, Justice League. The biggest failure of BvS is it kind of had the opposite of the intended effect in terms of getting the audience revved up for Justice League and the rest of the DCEU.