Best portrayal of heroism in a CBM

[Spider-Aziz]

Yinsen saving Tony Stark's life and soul.

This is a winner
You did good

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Thor facing Destroyer without his powers.

Iron Man taking the one way trip with the missle at the end of Avengers.

Cap willing to die to save the Winter Soldier.

 

[The Endless]

Peter Parker telliing Mary Jane he can't be with her at the end of Spider-Man. The true definition of selfless sacrifice that is truly relatable. Super powers not required.

 

[justanotherguy]

I'm with you bucky til the end of the line.

This.

 

[Batmannerism]

Yinsen saving Tony Stark's life and soul.

Yeah, that was very underrated, and probably a greater act of sacrifice than anything Tony did subsequently. In fact, it laid the groundwork for a terrific character story, of trying to live up to Yinsen's ideal....which then totally fell flat in Iron Man 2 and 3.

I guess maybe my disgust for those films stems only partly from their own weaknesses, and mostly from the utter failure to follow up on the amazing start that was Iron Man - still one of the best CBM's of all time IMO.

Sadly, in IM 2 and 3 I just didn't give a **** about Tony Stark. There are moments in Avengers where I almost start to care again, but then don't.
Perhaps it all goes back to the fact that he has this incredible transformational experience in IM, and then spends most of IM 2, 3 and Avengers being the same *****e bag he was before his captivity.

Well, that's just IMO.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

cool thread alot of have been mentioned spidey on the train.Thor against the destroyer.. so my choices!

Superman 3- that movie sucked, but the only good part was Clark Kent fighting his evil dark side.with clark winning out over that part!love that.

Avengers- the old dude saying he wont kneel before Loki

Batman TDK- Batman not breaking his one rule!

Batman TDK Tiny Lister the hood on the ferry throwing the joker's detonator overboard.knowing that now he could get blown up but get redemption! love that
ic
Xmen last stand! that flick gets a lot gruff but i really really dug Bobby who you could say really wasn't a fighter facing Pyro. dude stood up to the challenge and well "you never should have Left school!

Winter Solider! the computer nerd refusing to launch the carriers after hearing cap speech that they were infiltrated crossbones has a gun at his head.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Hm... For I'd say:
Spider-Man 2- the train rescue
Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Cap staying with Bucky while the helicarrier crashes
Iron Man- the Gulmria scene
Kick Ass- Kick Ass saving that guy in front of the conventicle store.
The Avengers- the battle of New York
Superman III- the factory rescue

 

[Rowsdower!]

Hal Jordan punching out a fart cloud in Green Lantern.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Hal Jordon punching out those poor guys who lost their jobs because of him...why were we rooting for him again?

 

[GremlinZilla89]

One of my favorites is Spidey scaring off the bullies and fixing the kids project with his webbing and walking him home. I know that movie split people down the middle, but that is one of the most perfect moments in a superhero movie ever.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Most scenes in that movie that just featured spider-man being spider-man were fantastic.

 

[weezerspider]

Batman saving all the hospital hostages in the Prewitt Building in TDK.

Yeah. I love that scene. He's just like '**** it' and takes out all the SWAT guys and the "doctors" all at once like a badass. That whole sequence is so Batman to me. And people don't think Batman was cool in that movie.

 

[Batmannerism]

Yeah. I love that scene. He's just like '**** it' and takes out all the SWAT guys and the "doctors" all at once like a badass. That whole sequence is so Batman to me. And people don't think Batman was cool in that movie.

Tru dat brother !

That's straight up Batman, go in alone, kick everyone's ass, and then disappear. I don't get why people slag off Bale/Nolan's Batman, he was as cool as Batman has ever been, and in TDK he was pure Batman.

If you think about it he was total Batman (okay no batarangs) but he used gadgets ( sticky bomb gun, glider cape, grapple gun, and the sonar thingie) as well as cunning and fighting skill ( tying up the Swat guys in knots, nice move Bats). Sure it wasn't flashy and there were no jumping spinning kicks (good luck doing that while wearing the Batsuit), but it was definitely Batman's M.O.

Having said that, all the Batman sequences were total Batman:

- the garage fight scene was the same, Bats uses misdirection with the tumbler, a couple of cool gadgets, cracks some heads, and then does the free-fall onto the scarecrow's van - if that ain't straight up Batman, I don't know what is.

You see the Bat-imitator watching him as he jumps off the ramp, and you know that guy's thinking "Holy ****, Batman's the MAN !"

- the Hong Kong sequence, planned down to the second, now that is total Batman. The sticky bombs, glider cape and skyhook, all perfectly planned and executed, that's how Batman rolls !


That was total Batman. To me, if you're only ever going to see one Batman film, see TDK. It's the definitive Bat-film so far IMO.

 

[The Endless]

It's a shame the choreography was no better than Power Rangers though ay

 

[The Joker]

Sorry but there wasn't a thing wrong with the choreography in that scene. The whole sequence was brilliantly executed. The most impressive display of Batman's abilities ever put into a movie. The Power Rangers should be so lucky to get to that level of brilliance

Yeah. I love that scene. He's just like '**** it' and takes out all the SWAT guys and the "doctors" all at once like a badass. That whole sequence is so Batman to me. And people don't think Batman was cool in that movie.

Exactly. There has not been a more impressive display of Batman's heroics yet in a movie than in that scene.

Tru dat brother !

That's straight up Batman, go in alone, kick everyone's ass, and then disappear. I don't get why people slag off Bale/Nolan's Batman, he was as cool as Batman has ever been, and in TDK he was pure Batman.

If you think about it he was total Batman (okay no batarangs) but he used gadgets ( sticky bomb gun, glider cape, grapple gun, and the sonar thingie) as well as cunning and fighting skill ( tying up the Swat guys in knots, nice move Bats). Sure it wasn't flashy and there were no jumping spinning kicks (good luck doing that while wearing the Batsuit), but it was definitely Batman's M.O.

Having said that, all the Batman sequences were total Batman:

- the garage fight scene was the same, Bats uses misdirection with the tumbler, a couple of cool gadgets, cracks some heads, and then does the free-fall onto the scarecrow's van - if that ain't straight up Batman, I don't know what is.

You see the Bat-imitator watching him as he jumps off the ramp, and you know that guy's thinking "Holy ****, Batman's the MAN !"

- the Hong Kong sequence, planned down to the second, now that is total Batman. The sticky bombs, glider cape and skyhook, all perfectly planned and executed, that's how Batman rolls !


That was total Batman. To me, if you're only ever going to see one Batman film, see TDK. It's the definitive Bat-film so far IMO.

'Nuff said

 

[weezerspider]

Tru dat brother !

That's straight up Batman, go in alone, kick everyone's ass, and then disappear. I don't get why people slag off Bale/Nolan's Batman, he was as cool as Batman has ever been, and in TDK he was pure Batman.

If you think about it he was total Batman (okay no batarangs) but he used gadgets ( sticky bomb gun, glider cape, grapple gun, and the sonar thingie) as well as cunning and fighting skill ( tying up the Swat guys in knots, nice move Bats). Sure it wasn't flashy and there were no jumping spinning kicks (good luck doing that while wearing the Batsuit), but it was definitely Batman's M.O.

Having said that, all the Batman sequences were total Batman:

- the garage fight scene was the same, Bats uses misdirection with the tumbler, a couple of cool gadgets, cracks some heads, and then does the free-fall onto the scarecrow's van - if that ain't straight up Batman, I don't know what is.

You see the Bat-imitator watching him as he jumps off the ramp, and you know that guy's thinking "Holy ****, Batman's the MAN !"

- the Hong Kong sequence, planned down to the second, now that is total Batman. The sticky bombs, glider cape and skyhook, all perfectly planned and executed, that's how Batman rolls !


That was total Batman. To me, if you're only ever going to see one Batman film, see TDK. It's the definitive Bat-film so far IMO.

But but but but he doesn't have quirky one liners like RDJ. Seriously though, The director/actor collaboration between Nolan and Bale gave us one badass Batman.

 

[Batmannerism]

It's a shame the choreography was no better than Power Rangers though ay

No offence dude, but Nolan's whole point in BB was to make Batman's fighting
less "dance-like" to use his own words.

I suspect a lot of people have been influenced by the Arkham games and expect Bats to be able to pull off amazingly graceful, and flashy moves.
In a real fistfight, unless you've got amazing skills, and aren't wearing body
armour, good luck pulling off a kick above the waist (especially against more
than one person). While we still can't say TDK was "real" it was certainly
much more "realistic" than previous Bat films. Enough to make us suspend disbelief.

I doubt even Scott Adkins or Tony Jaa could pull off anything flashy while wearing the Bat-suit.

As for Power Rangers, the choreography was nothing like Power Rangers at all. In TDKR there are some obvious mistakes, probably because Nolan changed fight choreographers.

well that's IMO anyway.

 

[Batmannerism]

But but but but he doesn't have quirky one liners like RDJ. Seriously though, The director/actor collaboration between Nolan and Bale gave us one badass Batman.

Tossing those SWAT guys out of the building is definitely badass !

That's what I liked about Nolan's Batman, he didn't say much.
In the Hong Kong scene he doesn't say a word, nor in the garage, until
after the fight's over.

Of course we do get some lines like.........

"I'm not wearing hockey pads!"

But I'm glad Bale didn't play Bruce as quirky, just as kind of bored. Again, he played 3 characters, the playboy Bruce (really evident in Begins) the planner Bruce, and Batman. People who compare Evans' performance of Cap, I think underestimate what Bale did. But that's just IMO.

 

[weezerspider]

I think Bale can act with eyes about as well as anyone has since Marlon Brando. American Hustle is a tour de force when it comes to Bale revealing emotions in his eyes. I think he does this wonderfully as the real Bruce. His eyes in the scene after Rachel died is heartbreaking. Bale plays the straight man in TDK. He's very subtle, but the rock to the routine, where the guy who gets all the laughs(Ledger) could not properly do his thing without the rock of the straight man. It's why in comedy routines, the straight man gets payed more.

 

[Skrilla31]

I thought that SHIELD worker from TWS... "Cap's Orders"... was pretty heroic

 

[The Endless]

No offence dude, but Nolan's whole point in BB was to make Batman's fighting
less "dance-like" to use his own words.

I suspect a lot of people have been influenced by the Arkham games and expect Bats to be able to pull off amazingly graceful, and flashy moves.
In a real fistfight, unless you've got amazing skills, and aren't wearing body
armour, good luck pulling off a kick above the waist (especially against more
than one person). While we still can't say TDK was "real" it was certainly
much more "realistic" than previous Bat films. Enough to make us suspend disbelief.

I doubt even Scott Adkins or Tony Jaa could pull off anything flashy while wearing the Bat-suit.

As for Power Rangers, the choreography was nothing like Power Rangers at all. In TDKR there are some obvious mistakes, probably because Nolan changed fight choreographers.

well that's IMO anyway.

It's nothing to do with the style of martial arts they chose. It's to do with the execution and presentation. People always try to defend the choreography by saying "What, you expecting Batman to be flipping around etc" No... i just expect the blows to seem bone crunching and to believably put enemies down (is kicking someone in the shin or elbowing them in the shoulder really going to incapacitate them?)

None of the blows felt real or impactful. Stunt men were just standing around waiting for Batman to put them down (some of them even had guns!) or reacting to blows that clearly never landed. I see better stunt work in WWE.

The Hong Kong sequence in particular was truly terrible in terms of the choreography and editing.

 

[DrCosmic]

^Part of why they couldn't cover all the missed blows and ineffective style is because rubber suits ****** movement. They still haven't really gotten past that yet, from 1989 til today... unless BvSoJ is coming with some newness.

When I think of heroism I think of a combination of sacrifice and saving people from danger. Most superheroes save the world, or at least the city, by killing a bad guy or beating him until some third party/thing kills him, but we don't call assassin's heroes, even if they kill really bad guys.

The SM2 train scene is a masterclass in superhero heroism. It's a really really good scene, and when the train members defend him and give him his mask, it's earned, you don't feel robbed, you're like 'well, duh they're going to keep his secret and back him up!'

The Iron Man 3 Barrel of Monkeys scene saving all those people is great and even though the sacrifice isn't as immediate (he goes without his suit to save Pepper, and she kinda dies because of it) it still carries a lot of weight.

Man of Steel - Pa Kent's death. I feel like a lot of people don't get this scene. Pa Kent had just come to the conclusion that there was nothing more he could do as a parent for Clark. So in a key moment, he sends Clark back to the bridge and he goes back to a tornado to save... a dog. Clark pretty much spells it out he died to show his dedication to Clark keeping a secret, but he sacrificed himself to give Superman an example of what heroism is. So when Superman turns himself over to the world, you know the caliber of man he comes from.

 

[Pink Ranger]

We have many super hero movies now, but usually the main character is fighting on their own personal journey that teaches them how to be the hero they are destined to become. Sometimes the films plot doesn't provide the opportunity for some of the kind of heroics we see month to month in a comic book, and other times we see more of the Super hero's super-heroics. When those moments happen it is a sight to behold!

That's what I don't like sometimes as more and more CBMs are made. They are becoming "fight movies" instead of movies about superheroes.

 

[Batmannerism]

It's nothing to do with the style of martial arts they chose. It's to do with the execution and presentation. People always try to defend the choreography by saying "What, you expecting Batman to be flipping around etc" No... i just expect the blows to seem bone crunching and to believably put enemies down (is kicking someone in the shin or elbowing them in the shoulder really going to incapacitate them?)

None of the blows felt real or impactful. Stunt men were just standing around waiting for Batman to put them down (some of them even had guns!) or reacting to blows that clearly never landed. I see better stunt work in WWE.

The Hong Kong sequence in particular was truly terrible in terms of the choreography and editing.

Obviously we disagree for the most part.

yes, this is waayyy off the topic of heroism...

(agree with the SM 2 part, hey and what about PP's quiet heroism at the end of SM where he leaves Harry with the memory of his father intact but decides to continue
being Spider-Man - similar to the mourning montage from TASM 2, which I think was spot on.


.... but worth talking about fight choreography since you brought it up.

I agree that Batman's blows need to be bone-crunching.

Personally, I'm hoping that Batman in D of J is a much dirtier fighter (as in stomping on knees, kicking guys in the groin, headbutts to the nose etc).
However, I found the choreography in TDK to be sufficiently crunchy,

Like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unvBWMZYNgw

That first hit at 0:07 that's a hammer fist to the side of the head, and Bats rotates his body making it a powerful strike.
Follow up with a strike to the next's guy's knee and his head bounced off the railing, then a spinning elbow to the jaw.
Finally a downward hammer to the head.

If you don't believe in the power of those strikes, get someone who knows how to do them to try one on you, it might change your mind. Some Krav maga guys I know like them for the reason that you can deliver a lot of force and not damage the bones in your hand. Trust me, a hammer fist to the chest (particularly the sternum) can be pretty disabling.

Back to the movie.
Hong Kong, I thought particularly awesome for the stunts (maybe the fistfight could have been a little better choreographed), you don't really see clearly what Bats is doing, but that's part of the whole Batman thing.

As for the swat guys, Bats really bashed them around. A full arm hammer fist can generate a lot of power, and that's the technique Bats used the most.

Check out this video, yes it's in French (which is okay for me, because I'm from Canada) but you get the idea. I'd like to think there are quite a few crunchy hits in there,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi2y6k6nfHE

like at 0:44 and 0:58 (side hammer fist to the head) 1:56 (face slammed into a pole) and this is Batman NOT trying to hurt the swats too much.

TDKR, wasn't so great at this, there is a bit of stunt guys standing around, which is not a good look, but this happens in every kung fu film (go back and watch any martial arts flick, almost all of the fights where the hero takes on a gang, they all attack one at a time, has to be this way, otherwise the hero gets wasted. Interesting that we expect more from Batman, but hey, he's just so cool).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31NppxI2Ps

Some of those strikes are pretty solid, a lot of follow through on the punches and hammer strikes, I can tell you that a really powerful
front kick will knock the wind out of you (trust me). But I take your point about the standing around.


I think you can certainly criticize Batman's fighting vs Bane in their first fight, because simply put, he's **** ! But he's meant to be an out of shape and rusty Batman.

Bane's fighting is pretty good, except for that Phantom punch, that is pretty bad.

So IMO, I think you're underestimating the choreography. For the most part it isn't pretty but gets the job done.

On that note, WWE guys have absolutely amazing skill to pull off those movies and NOT kill each other. I have nothing but respect for those guys, but personally if I want to watch fighting sports, I'm UFC all the way !

Now IMO, the best fight choreography ever is in the Bourne Ultimatum
Bourne v Desh. It's poetry in motion, while still being brutal and believable
It's two incredibly skilled guys absolutely trying to KILL each other.
check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7UOLUMoqJQ

Personally, I find that Raid and Tony Jaa stuff a bit too fancy, because nobody can throw that many kicks without getting tired (or getting their kick caught) or take that many strikes without being seriously messed up.
It's a bit fancy for my liking.

But hey, each to their own. I started a thread about Batman's fighting style for his next movie, last year. It's probably around somewhere.

People agree and disagree about the style, but everyone wants to see more batarangs !

peace !