The Dark Knight Biggest Disappointment

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Yea that was my main gripe about a otherwise IMO a great film. But maybe he expected Selina to kill Shreck anyway, but i suppose that wouldn't be very Batman would it!
 
But maybe he expected Selina to kill Shreck anyway, but i suppose that wouldn't be very Batman would it!

Well, he did, more or less, in a round-a-bout way, kill The Penguin. Not to mention that strongman dude he blew-up. And those two clowns he sent into the fire off the hood of his car.

Burton's Batman apparently has no qualms about killing.

#800! Whooo!
 
Not really. I would think that the volunteer Batmen would have ran for the hills and not come back after seeing what happened to their leader, Brian Douglass. :hoboj:
Heh. :D

And the whole bit with Reese proved the lengths that Bruce would go to rescue someone, even if they don't have his interests in mind. Reese might also think that revealing Batman's identity will get Joker to stop killing, because at that point, everyone still thinks that Joker only wants to know who Batman is.

To me, the "central dramatic question" of the entire film is, "Will Gotham stop the Joker?" Brian tried and failed. Reese tried and failed too. Both subplots are off-shoots from the conflict with Batman, but they're still relevant to the movie's main plot.
Interesting take on it. I'll have to watch it again with this in mind.
 
I was waiting for that too, but that is something that has always bothered me about Batman Returns. He rips his mask off in front of both Catwoman and Max Shreck, knowing full well that Max would never keep it a secret or he would blackmail him with it somehow.

At the moment he was giving up his career as Batman.
 
At the moment he was giving up his career as Batman.

No, no. He thought he was giving up his career as Batman. No matter how much he wants to give it up, he can't. Something will always happen that will bring him back. He is just as much Batman as he is Bruce Wayne.
 
So? As rachel said, if he came out and revealed his identity the world would never leave them alone. Not to mention the criminals.

And the people who want to sue him for property damage.
 
Well, he did, more or less, in a round-a-bout way, kill The Penguin. Not to mention that strongman dude he blew-up. And those two clowns he sent into the fire off the hood of his car.

Burton's Batman apparently has no qualms about killing.

#800! Whooo!
Let's not forget all the thugs he shot & blew up in the first movie, & the fact that he announced his intention to kill the Joker.
 
And the people who want to sue him for property damage.

I'm reminded of an episode of TAS where Batgirl dreamt that she got killed, resulting in Bruce's ID being outed. Criminals in Arkham were filing lawsuits against him. I'd see that happening. Not to mention the company's stock plummeting, lost jobs-it'd be a catastrophe. See, unlike Iron Man, Batman's not in bed with the federal government.
 
No, no. He thought he was giving up his career as Batman. No matter how much he wants to give it up, he can't. Something will always happen that will bring him back. He is just as much Batman as he is Bruce Wayne.

If he thought and was convinced he was doing that then he was doing that, no matter what could have happened later.

So? As rachel said, if he came out and revealed his identity the world would never leave them alone. Not to mention the criminals.

So? He was doing it all the same. Selina was more important for him, obviously. Plus, world or criminals after him doesn't matter... he can endure. ;)


Let's not forget all the thugs he shot & blew up in the first movie, & the fact that he announced his intention to kill the Joker.

By killing those criminals, Batman prevented many many innocent people deaths. And even when he told Joker he was going to kill him - his intentions - he never did directly.
 
By killing those criminals, Batman prevented many many innocent people deaths. And even when he told Joker he was going to kill him - his intentions - he never did directly.
You failed. Give back your batman membership card!
 
You failed. Give back your batman membership card!

I look at Burton's Batman as the Original before the Comics Code made him hate guns...The Original Batman wouldnt hesitate to drop a criminal in a vat of acid or shoot a bad guy
 
I look at Burton's Batman as the Original before the Comics Code made him hate guns...The Original Batman wouldnt hesitate to drop a criminal in a vat of acid or shoot a bad guy
Well Batman used to carry a gun once. Its all history now. So yeah, at that time it looked good and nobody would have any objections. But now, after all these years of refinement, his code has been forged. So we can forgive all his previous incarnations for killing (which have been retconned i think), but not the future ones. I dont know whether batman's one rule existed at Burton's time, but what the hell, burton wanted to portray him that way, good for him. All i am going to say is that in actual life any person would resort to killing in batman's position. Either to save himself or someone else, but he wouldnt kill in cold blood like Burton's Batman. In any case, the state's collaboration with him would be even harder if he killed people. Probably impossible.

Now, if the one rule didnt exist when burton made his movie, fine, but if it did, then i am sorry, but i cant make any excuses for him. Cause we all know that killing the joker or Ras would save millions of lives but doing it would make batman the same as them. That's why batman doesnt do it.

So batman killing in cold blood (burning a poor thug with the car's thruster was cold man!) can never be justified El Payaso. We can only forgive Burton because the one rule hadnt been established yet. Or had it? I dont know.
 
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The reason Batman doesn't kill is so he doesn't become the people he is fighting. I think this is what sets Batman apart from other super-heroes and makes him my favourite. It would be just too easy to kill his enemies, so he has to use his guile and intelligance to take them out without resorting to murder. Thats why I like Batman so much, there is so much conflict in him about his rule, especially when it comes to Joker. Lets be honest, Batman could and probly should just kill Joker, like he always says in the comics, he is partly to blame for the Jokers countless victims, but thats what makes Batman so interesting.
 
Millions?
Well the comic book version of Ras would have killed millions if not for batman.
But then if you sum all the people that died by Ras' league in the movie, then you got some millions right there.

Rome
Constantinople
London
+ Gotham (had it not been for batman)
____________________________________
Millions


By the way, which city was Ras referring to when he said they loaded trade ships with plague rats?
 
Well the comic book version of Ras would have killed millions if not for batman.
But then if you sum all the people that died by Ras' league in the movie, then you got some millions right there.

Rome
Constantinople
London
+ Gotham (had it not been for batman)
____________________________________
Millions


By the way, which city was Ras referring to when he said they loaded trade ships with plague rats?
Probably Venice or Genoa. Thats were the plague entered Western Europe from.
 
I've always wondered, is Ra's insinuating that The Great Fire of London was caused by the League of Shadows?
 
I've always wondered, is Ra's insinuating that The Great Fire of London was caused by the League of Shadows?
The falls of Rome and Constantinople, the great fire of London as well as the financial depression that hit Gotham was the league's doing. Bruce should ask him about 9/11!
 
You failed. Give back your batman membership card!

:joker:

I look at Burton's Batman as the Original before the Comics Code made him hate guns...The Original Batman wouldnt hesitate to drop a criminal in a vat of acid or shoot a bad guy

That's Burton's Batman. He went straight to the original.

Well Batman used to carry a gun once. Its all history now. So yeah, at that time it looked good and nobody would have any objections.

In fact there were objections. That's why they changed that.

But now, after all these years of refinement, his code has been forged. So we can forgive all his previous incarnations for killing (which have been retconned i think), but not the future ones.

I don't know it "refinement" but it was a "change." Morality of the time made that kind of change for many characters so it's not like it was a great reason to begin with.

I dont know whether batman's one rule existed at Burton's time, but what the hell, burton wanted to portray him that way, good for him. All i am going to say is that in actual life any person would resort to killing in batman's position. Either to save himself or someone else, but he wouldnt kill in cold blood like Burton's Batman.

The only time Batman killed in cold blood was with the bomb and the Strng Man of Penguin's gang. And by the nature of the explosion it looked like a fake bomb anyways.

In B89, killing Joker's henchmen at Axis Chemicals was to protect innocent people's lives from both the gangsters and the poisoned products.

In any case, the state's collaboration with him would be even harder if he killed people. Probably impossible.

In any case, Batman intefering with any Police official process would be impossible. No way they'd allow a masked man to interfere, to check the place of a crime before the police. In no way there'd be a bat-signal, admitting they're accepting (or even more, wanting) an illegal agent whose identity is unknown.

So we either make Batman-Police link extremely undercover or we suspend our belief.

Burton's Gotham was unable to defend itself. Police and authorrities were powerless due to corruption. They were more than glad to receive Batman's help. It's a dirty war but somebody had to fight it.

Now, if the one rule didnt exist when burton made his movie, fine, but if it did, then i am sorry, but i cant make any excuses for him.

Nor he needs for you to.

Cause we all know that killing the joker or Ras would save millions of lives but doing it would make batman the same as them. That's why batman doesnt do it.

Batman had no remorse in letting Ra's die (when he could have saved him the same he saved Joker) or when he pushed Two-Face to his own death.

Now, in the latter case at least (I'd say in Ra's case too), Batman did it in order to protect an innocent life. Same as Burton's Batman.

So batman killing in cold blood (burning a poor thug with the car's thruster was cold man!)

Did the flame-thrower die? I didn't know that.

All I saw was his clothes burning and him walking away very alive. And considering there was snow all around only thing he should have done was to listen to his instinct, rolling over the floor and save his life. If he wasn't smatrt enough to do that, he shouldn't have to put things on fire risking the life of innocents.

All Batman did was to incapacitate the man of keep doing harm to innocent people and give him the fright of his life.

can never be justified El Payaso.

Oh he can. :)

We can only forgive Burton because the one rule hadnt been established yet. Or had it? I dont know.

You don't know???

I gotta say:

You failed. Give back your batman membership card! :D
 
The reason Batman doesn't kill is so he doesn't become the people he is fighting. I think this is what sets Batman apart from other super-heroes and makes him my favourite. It would be just too easy to kill his enemies, so he has to use his guile and intelligance to take them out without resorting to murder. Thats why I like Batman so much, there is so much conflict in him about his rule, especially when it comes to Joker. Lets be honest, Batman could and probly should just kill Joker, like he always says in the comics, he is partly to blame for the Jokers countless victims, but thats what makes Batman so interesting.

That is exactly what puts him exactly in the same league. Few classic super-heroes kill. If any.
 
Speaking of "one rule", that was so stupid. There was no plausible way for anyone to know that he had any kind of no killing policy, in a city like Gotham where a hundred people disappear every day and the entire CONCEPT is that criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.

Batman's costume being public knowledge was ******ed too, even with the existence of cell phone cams
 
Judging by Batman's confrontation with the Joker, we are meant to believe that he doesnt kill and that he is incorruptible, while turning a blind eye to the rest that Nolan had him do.

-So ok, i accept that the ninjas escaped the explosion.
-But "dude i dont have to save you" is bullocks.
-And the Dent thing is controversial to say the least. And in this case, there was no awesome cape escape that made them do it, so i dont see the reason for it. There clearly was a better way for it.

Oh what the hell, i will turn a blind eye on that as well. Just as long as he doesnt shoot someone between the eyes in the sequel and then nolan tells me how incorruptible he is.
 
speaking of "one rule", that was so stupid. There was no plausible way for anyone to know that he had any kind of no killing policy, in a city like gotham where a hundred people disappear every day and the entire concept is that criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.


Batman's costume being public knowledge was ******ed too, even with the existence of cell phone cams

Well maybe he had confronted enough criminals and had been in dire straights enough times (shot stabbed) that criminals realized no matter what batman never retaliated with murder (as they prolly thought any normal person would) yet they saw him just take them into the proper authorities (after a good arse thrashing of course) lol, im sure word of the bats no kill m.o. Spread through the criminal underworld eventually..

Batman's costume being public knowledge was ******ed too, even with the existence of cell phone cams[/quote]

^^HUH??
 
and speaking of Brian Douglass... anyone wonder how Joker got a hold of him????
 
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