Piper Maru
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So I wonder where the next BioShock will take place? In outerspace? It would be nice to see System Shock 3....
Bioshock Infinite
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Marvolo
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Forbes has posted an artcle about someting peopl;e may have missed:
There is so much depth in this ending.
More at the link.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/03/29/the-one-twist-in-bioshock-infinite-you-might-have-missed-completely/
Check this out:
And venturebeat has a wonderful detailed breakdown:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/understanding-bioshock-infinites-ending-ending-explanation/
Many crazy things happen at the end of BioShock Infinite, but the final mind-warping sequence is kicked off by a surprise trip to Rapture, the underwater city from the original game.
While I was playing through BioShock Infinite, I thought it was strange that there were literally no references to Rapture or Andrew Ryan at all. Like, zero. Even if it wasn’t integrated into the plot, I thought perhaps I’d at least find a newspaper clipping lying around talking about that “other” unbelievable city, or some passing mention of a rivalry between Ryan and Comstock or something.
When you get to Rapture, Elizabeth explains it by saying it’s another possible universe. Okay, I thought, we’re simply playing in a different game universe accessed via lighthouse, and didn’t really think about it much past that.
What I failed to realize is what she really meant. That Rapture, and really all the events of the original BioShock are direct, alternate parallels of everything that happens in BioShock Infinite, right down to the characters themselves.
The proof that can’t be overlooked? In the original BioShock, it’s made expressly clear that only Andrew Ryan himself can operate the Bathyspheres in the city once they’re on lockdown. Part of the twist of that game as that you can also operate them, and you eventually discover than you, as Jack, are Andrew Ryan’s illegitimate son (or probable clone) which allows you to use them yourself.
In Infinite, you’re operating them once again.
The implication here is that DeWitt/Comstock is Jack/Andrew Ryan. Both was some version of the other, who goes on to kill their elder who has created a massive city as a tribute to their own ego. I even think that they do it the same way too. We are explicitly told that Booker enters Columbia from a parallel universe via the lighthouse, but we have to remember that Jack did the same thing. By entering through a lighthouse, that would also indicate he’s coming from another universe as well, right? Perhaps his plane crashed through a tear?
What else do we have if Jack is Booker and Andrew Ryan is Comstock? Well, we have the obvious idea that Rapture is Columbia, sunk under the ocean instead of floating above it. In this universe, things get a bit wonky, but the comparisons are still clear. Plasmids are Vigors, EVE is Salts. Taking it a step further, Atlas/Fontaine is Daisy Fitzroy, the blood thirsty working class hero/eventual psychopath who challenges Ryan/Comstock and leads to Rapture/Columbia’s downfall.
Dr. Lutece is Dr. Tenenbaum, looking after the little girls with magic powers. That would make Little Sisters fractured versions of Elizabeth, looked after by a multitude of Big Daddies, all condensed into the massive Songbird in Columbia. The brown hair, the nearly identically arranged blue and white clothes. It’s now impossible for me not to see Elizabeth in the Little Sisters. Their eyes are glowing yellow, but if I bet if that light faded, you’d see a sparkling pair of blue eyes staring back at you.
It all lines up almost perfectly, but is still hidden enough where most people (myself included) might not realize the full extent of the crossover until days later. It’s too well arranged not to have been crafted on purpose. Look at Elizabeth next to that Little Sister! How is something so obvious, yet so subtle at the same time? Well, because most of us were attempting to untangle the events of Infinite alone, a monumental task in itself. There really wasn’t time to make all these connections in the moment.
Many thanks to a few commenters for pointing out the Bathysphere genetic code item, which led to me attempting to unravel the rest of the parallels. I highly doubt I’m the first to do so, but if I can help blow some minds by spreading the theory, that works for me.
So, am I crazy or is this yet another purposefully planted piece of the already masterful plot?
Now for the new question. What happened in Ryan/Booker’s life to spawn the creator of Rapture over Columbia? Is there even a knowable answer to that?
While I was playing through BioShock Infinite, I thought it was strange that there were literally no references to Rapture or Andrew Ryan at all. Like, zero. Even if it wasn’t integrated into the plot, I thought perhaps I’d at least find a newspaper clipping lying around talking about that “other” unbelievable city, or some passing mention of a rivalry between Ryan and Comstock or something.
When you get to Rapture, Elizabeth explains it by saying it’s another possible universe. Okay, I thought, we’re simply playing in a different game universe accessed via lighthouse, and didn’t really think about it much past that.
What I failed to realize is what she really meant. That Rapture, and really all the events of the original BioShock are direct, alternate parallels of everything that happens in BioShock Infinite, right down to the characters themselves.
The proof that can’t be overlooked? In the original BioShock, it’s made expressly clear that only Andrew Ryan himself can operate the Bathyspheres in the city once they’re on lockdown. Part of the twist of that game as that you can also operate them, and you eventually discover than you, as Jack, are Andrew Ryan’s illegitimate son (or probable clone) which allows you to use them yourself.
In Infinite, you’re operating them once again.
The implication here is that DeWitt/Comstock is Jack/Andrew Ryan. Both was some version of the other, who goes on to kill their elder who has created a massive city as a tribute to their own ego. I even think that they do it the same way too. We are explicitly told that Booker enters Columbia from a parallel universe via the lighthouse, but we have to remember that Jack did the same thing. By entering through a lighthouse, that would also indicate he’s coming from another universe as well, right? Perhaps his plane crashed through a tear?
What else do we have if Jack is Booker and Andrew Ryan is Comstock? Well, we have the obvious idea that Rapture is Columbia, sunk under the ocean instead of floating above it. In this universe, things get a bit wonky, but the comparisons are still clear. Plasmids are Vigors, EVE is Salts. Taking it a step further, Atlas/Fontaine is Daisy Fitzroy, the blood thirsty working class hero/eventual psychopath who challenges Ryan/Comstock and leads to Rapture/Columbia’s downfall.
Dr. Lutece is Dr. Tenenbaum, looking after the little girls with magic powers. That would make Little Sisters fractured versions of Elizabeth, looked after by a multitude of Big Daddies, all condensed into the massive Songbird in Columbia. The brown hair, the nearly identically arranged blue and white clothes. It’s now impossible for me not to see Elizabeth in the Little Sisters. Their eyes are glowing yellow, but if I bet if that light faded, you’d see a sparkling pair of blue eyes staring back at you.
It all lines up almost perfectly, but is still hidden enough where most people (myself included) might not realize the full extent of the crossover until days later. It’s too well arranged not to have been crafted on purpose. Look at Elizabeth next to that Little Sister! How is something so obvious, yet so subtle at the same time? Well, because most of us were attempting to untangle the events of Infinite alone, a monumental task in itself. There really wasn’t time to make all these connections in the moment.
Many thanks to a few commenters for pointing out the Bathysphere genetic code item, which led to me attempting to unravel the rest of the parallels. I highly doubt I’m the first to do so, but if I can help blow some minds by spreading the theory, that works for me.
So, am I crazy or is this yet another purposefully planted piece of the already masterful plot?
Now for the new question. What happened in Ryan/Booker’s life to spawn the creator of Rapture over Columbia? Is there even a knowable answer to that?
There is so much depth in this ending.More at the link.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/03/29/the-one-twist-in-bioshock-infinite-you-might-have-missed-completely/
Check this out:
And venturebeat has a wonderful detailed breakdown:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/understanding-bioshock-infinites-ending-ending-explanation/
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Solidus
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I've waned SS3 for 14 years. The first two are masterpieces. However, I don't want SS done like these game. SS needs to be RPG based, as the originals were. Not FPS based like the BioShocks.
jacobed
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yeah I do. I mean she was always alive but it makes me believe their plan for getting rid of Comstock worked and now there's a version where Anna and Booker can live happy as a family.
Marvolo
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Yep.
After the credits, there is a little, tiny section, where Booker wakes up in his apartment and hears Anna crying. He goes into her room and calls out “Anna?!”. That is where the game really ends.
Because only Comstock was killed and stopped from ever existing, the Booker that declined the Baptism STILL existed. However because Booker and Comstock’s worlds crossed, all parts of Booker’s life that included Comstock or anything from the Comstock dimension itself was removed from his life. There were no Lutece twins who came to collect his daughter, no Columbia, no Comstock and no adult Elizabeth in his, or any other dimension ever. He then went back to the last time in his life that was free from Comstock related madness: him in his apartment with Anna as a baby before he met Comstock.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/u...nding-ending-explanation/#l4q1p8ytPkevyQlM.99
Because only Comstock was killed and stopped from ever existing, the Booker that declined the Baptism STILL existed. However because Booker and Comstock’s worlds crossed, all parts of Booker’s life that included Comstock or anything from the Comstock dimension itself was removed from his life. There were no Lutece twins who came to collect his daughter, no Columbia, no Comstock and no adult Elizabeth in his, or any other dimension ever. He then went back to the last time in his life that was free from Comstock related madness: him in his apartment with Anna as a baby before he met Comstock.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/u...nding-ending-explanation/#l4q1p8ytPkevyQlM.99
And something sad:
Anna IS Elizabeth, but because every outcome of baby Anna’s life was to end up in Columbia with Comstock in that tower and grow up there, when Comstock died and everything he had done and he had effected died with him, the adult Elizabeth also went. There was no adult Elizabeth in any other dimension that Comstock wasn’t in. Because he was in every world she was in, when he died, the adult her died to, leaving only baby Anna. This means that while Anna will be free to live with Booker, she will never turn into the same person. She will never be able to open tears as that was an ability given to her by the Lutece twins in Columbia, she will probably never be able to pick locks (why would she need to learn to do that?) and a lot of her personality that was influenced by being in Columbia will be different. She will never be Elizabeth. She will always be Anna, a completely different human than the one we got to know. So, in a way Elizabeth DID die. That, to me, is a very, very, ver depressing thing indeed, as Elizabeth was an incredibly crafted character and the best female character in any game I’ve ever seen.
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jacobed
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I wasn't a huge fan of all the time jumping in the middle but once you get to the end, you realize how important it was to the ending. The only way for the player to understand the concept of all these different realities is have them actually live it.
Master Chief
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Doing some thinking about the ending and it truly is incredible in so many ways, buy my favourite thing about it,
The meta aspect of the pier and all the different lighthouses didn't hit me right away, but damn what a beautiful thing to include. It's as if in that moment every player is connected to everybody who reached that point. Every version of Booker and Elizabeth you see is essentially a player representing a different Bioshock universe. What a wicked way to reflect on how in gaming we all experience a narrative and are connected through it even if we all play in our own way.
Ken Levine is a goddam genius.
Ken Levine is a goddam genius.
Brother Jack
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[BLACKOUT]It hasn't been as obvious to me what the ending meant as a meta-commentary on video games as the ending to the first Bioshock was, but that helps. There's probably a lot more there than many people haven't even discovered yet. [/BLACKOUT]
Upset Spideyfan
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Just finished the game again. Such an incredibly powerful finale that asks the gamer to put stuff together on their own. 
Now I got to go and round up those damn audio logs.
Now I got to go and round up those damn audio logs.
terry78
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Now I see why Levine was so adamant about them getting the Bioshock movie right. Mother****er is meticulous as hell about detail. Also fun fact, he is the voice of the CIRCUS OF VALUUUUUUUUES!
Destructus86
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I heard a couple NPC's joking about humanity sending people to the moon....I kinda bet that's where it'll go next....just a guess though
Spider-Who?
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Okay, I'm going to try and spell the story out...maybe some one can fill in a few holes/correct a few things?
So basically...
There's a couple holes, but overall does seem right?
So basically...
There are two versions of Booker that the game focuses on:
Dad-Booker: A Booker who refuses a Baptism and has a child, Anna.
Comstock-Booker: A Booker who receives the Baptism, and for some reason becomes crazy, calls himself Comstock, and builds Colombia. (side note: I really wish that they explained how and why this transition occurred, there's such a huge dramatic shift between the characters it's crazy not to focus on that).
While building Colombia, Comstock-Booker's scientist, Lutuce, discovers the Tears, where she meets a male version of herself. These "twins" help Comstock-Booker further develop the Tear technology.
He realizes that, for whatever reason, he wants an heir. The Lutuce "Twins" tell Comstock-Booker that there exists an alternate reality where he did not receive a Baptism and went on to have a child. This "Dad-Booker" is heavily in debt (some say it's monetarily, I think its a spiritual "debt", as he didn't get baptized). The Lutuce twins visit Dad-Booker, saying "We'll forgive your 'debt' if we can give your daughter to Comstock". Dad-Booker agrees, and his daughter Anna is taken to Comstock-Booker's reality. Comstock-Booker renames her "Elizabeth" and the Lutuce twins experiment on her, giving her the ability to control the Tears.
At some point, the Lutuce Twins realize that the Tear Technology and Elizabeth are meant to destroy the world below. Comstock-Booker kills them but their experience and understanding of the Tears allows them to hop back and forth between realities (I guess?).
For revenge, the Lutuce Twins set Dad-Booker's sights on Colombia, saying "Hey, we'll wash away your debts if you get Elizabeth out of Colombia". At this point, I don't understand why Dad-Booker doesn't remember them or Comstock. He obviously remembers having a daughter...and I don't get what the "debt" is this time, nor do I understand why the Lutuce Twins would use that vernacular again.
There are apparently several alternate versions of Dad-Booker going to Colombia...each with different outcomes - one of which we see where Dad-Booker becomes a martyr for the Vox, and each time Dad-Booker dies in Colombia, the Lutuce Twins bring an alternate Dad-Booker back, which I guess explains the retry death scenes in the apartment, and even the note on the light house door saying "This is your LAST chance!". Can we also assume that the bound guy we find shot in the head at the lighthouse is an Alternate-Booker as well?
In the end, Elizabeth can see all realities, past present and future, and realizes that Dad-Booker and Comstock-Booker are two sides of the same coin.
She realizes that there will always be a Booker who is baptized and becomes Comstock-Booker, and there will always be a Booker who does NOT get baptized and will become Dad-Booker. This means that there is no reality where Comstock-Booker doesn't take Anna/Elizabeth from Dad-Booker.
They travel back in time(?) to the period of the Baptism. Booker refuses the baptism, restarting the Dad-Booker timeline. Elizabeth then takes Booker to the baptism again, and Booker agrees to the baptism, which restarts the Comstock-Booker timeline. Elizabeth drowns the now Comstock-Booker, ending that timeline before it starts. This means that the Dad-Booker timeline they restarted can now continue on without interference from the Lutuce Twins and Comstock, since the Comstock-Booker reality no longer exists. The post credit scene confirms this, and even (to me) suggests that Dad-Booker remembers everything that happened in the game, based on his reaction to hearing baby Anna/Elizabeth crying.
Dad-Booker: A Booker who refuses a Baptism and has a child, Anna.
Comstock-Booker: A Booker who receives the Baptism, and for some reason becomes crazy, calls himself Comstock, and builds Colombia. (side note: I really wish that they explained how and why this transition occurred, there's such a huge dramatic shift between the characters it's crazy not to focus on that).
While building Colombia, Comstock-Booker's scientist, Lutuce, discovers the Tears, where she meets a male version of herself. These "twins" help Comstock-Booker further develop the Tear technology.
He realizes that, for whatever reason, he wants an heir. The Lutuce "Twins" tell Comstock-Booker that there exists an alternate reality where he did not receive a Baptism and went on to have a child. This "Dad-Booker" is heavily in debt (some say it's monetarily, I think its a spiritual "debt", as he didn't get baptized). The Lutuce twins visit Dad-Booker, saying "We'll forgive your 'debt' if we can give your daughter to Comstock". Dad-Booker agrees, and his daughter Anna is taken to Comstock-Booker's reality. Comstock-Booker renames her "Elizabeth" and the Lutuce twins experiment on her, giving her the ability to control the Tears.
At some point, the Lutuce Twins realize that the Tear Technology and Elizabeth are meant to destroy the world below. Comstock-Booker kills them but their experience and understanding of the Tears allows them to hop back and forth between realities (I guess?).
For revenge, the Lutuce Twins set Dad-Booker's sights on Colombia, saying "Hey, we'll wash away your debts if you get Elizabeth out of Colombia". At this point, I don't understand why Dad-Booker doesn't remember them or Comstock. He obviously remembers having a daughter...and I don't get what the "debt" is this time, nor do I understand why the Lutuce Twins would use that vernacular again.
There are apparently several alternate versions of Dad-Booker going to Colombia...each with different outcomes - one of which we see where Dad-Booker becomes a martyr for the Vox, and each time Dad-Booker dies in Colombia, the Lutuce Twins bring an alternate Dad-Booker back, which I guess explains the retry death scenes in the apartment, and even the note on the light house door saying "This is your LAST chance!". Can we also assume that the bound guy we find shot in the head at the lighthouse is an Alternate-Booker as well?
In the end, Elizabeth can see all realities, past present and future, and realizes that Dad-Booker and Comstock-Booker are two sides of the same coin.
She realizes that there will always be a Booker who is baptized and becomes Comstock-Booker, and there will always be a Booker who does NOT get baptized and will become Dad-Booker. This means that there is no reality where Comstock-Booker doesn't take Anna/Elizabeth from Dad-Booker.
They travel back in time(?) to the period of the Baptism. Booker refuses the baptism, restarting the Dad-Booker timeline. Elizabeth then takes Booker to the baptism again, and Booker agrees to the baptism, which restarts the Comstock-Booker timeline. Elizabeth drowns the now Comstock-Booker, ending that timeline before it starts. This means that the Dad-Booker timeline they restarted can now continue on without interference from the Lutuce Twins and Comstock, since the Comstock-Booker reality no longer exists. The post credit scene confirms this, and even (to me) suggests that Dad-Booker remembers everything that happened in the game, based on his reaction to hearing baby Anna/Elizabeth crying.
There's a couple holes, but overall does seem right?
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Upset Spideyfan
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To be honest if Comstock and Booker both have the exact same past pre-baptism the better question is why isn't Booker a crazy racist. This is apparently a guy who went slaughter crazy and burned people alive in their homes to prove that he didn't have "teepees" in his family tree.
He was using the tears as his means of prophecy and saw evil future Elizabeth fulfilling his vision and assumed that he was meant to sire a child.
And Booker's debt was most definitely monetary at least at the point of selling Anna. Once he goes to rescue Elizabeth the debt is very much spiritual as you say.
Fink sabotaged their machine and they got scattered throughout the multiverse.
The Lutece's saw through a tear old Elizabeth destroying the world and the male one decided he wanted to put things right (threatening to abandon his female version if she didn't help).
Before they could act Fink killed them and they ended needing to use Booker as their agent.
When they dragged Booker into Comstock's reality, his memory got fried (the male Lutece mentions it happened to him) and his mind started trying to put the memories straight which the Lutece's used to help give him a plausible and convenient motivation for going to save Elizabeth.
The rest of it seems pretty right, though I think when Booker dies he is just getting reversed in time by the Lutece's since his memory seems to be more or less intact and there is not a Booker corpse lying around.
jacobed
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unless they explained it, I always thought he became Comstock because he was a lost soul looking for anything to attach to. Especially after Wounded Knee. The baptism allowed him a new life and a new set of beliefs. It's basically the same origin for every crazy cult leader.
Master Chief
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Yup.
Booker rejects the baptism and becomes an alcoholic Pinkerton thug with a gambling problem as a way to cope.
Or
Booker accepts the baptism and becomes Comstock, creating a new identity but using Booker's past to gain political standing. Slate thinks Comstock is lying about being a hero since he doesn't know Comstock is Booker.
Anyway, here's a nifty outline of events,
Booker rejects the baptism and becomes an alcoholic Pinkerton thug with a gambling problem as a way to cope.
Or
Booker accepts the baptism and becomes Comstock, creating a new identity but using Booker's past to gain political standing. Slate thinks Comstock is lying about being a hero since he doesn't know Comstock is Booker.
Anyway, here's a nifty outline of events,
Upset Spideyfan
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Man if you include that Booker and Elizabeth do not finish Infinite in the same Columbia that the game starts in you could really complicate that nice little chart up.
I just finished this game, and I'm truly sad now it's one of the things that you get so into and you feel lost when you finish it. Best game I have played in soo long! There was a such a good story to it, and the ending just blew my mind. I loved Elizabeth hands down best female character! Usually they hold you back (Sheva from resident evil 5 for example), and make the game more challenging but she was so helpful, and it was really her story that you are just going along with, til the end anyways. This is the first bioshock I've ever played and if they're all this good, I NEED to play the others!!
TheAQU4M4N
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wow this game is awesome so far, reminds so much of the 1st BioShock, im up to the part where you get Shock Jockey.
ChrisBaleBatman
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So, I beat the game.
Wow. Just...wow. Amazing. The complexities, and multi-layered aspects of how that ending goes down, is just masterful.
Wow. Just...wow. Amazing. The complexities, and multi-layered aspects of how that ending goes down, is just masterful.
Brother Jack
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That's insane to me. Levine comes off as such a soft-spoken, nearly monotone guy that to think he can pull off that cartoonish voice is almost unbelievable.
"I appreciate a lady who appreciates VALUES!!!"
Destructus86
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Does anyone know if it's possible to have multiple save files? My wife and I both want to play on the PC but I don't want her auto-saving over my file....
Master Chief
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By default there's only one save, but you can manually move saves.
Source: PC Gaming Wiki
It's a pain but so far it's the only way. :/ I'm getting sick of this checkpoint save system games have started implementing.
- Disable Steam cloud synchronization.
- Make a backup of your BioShock Infinite savedata directory. It should be located at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\[your Steam ID]\8870\remote\savedata\
- Create as many subfolders as you want within this directory. Assume that each of them contains a save game.
- Simply move the contents of the savedata directory into the corresponding subfolder whenever you or anyone else wants to start a new game.
- When you start a new game, a new save file for that game will be automatically created within the main savedata directory.
- When you want to switch playthroughs, first move the current file in the savedata directory into a sub-folder for safe keeping (remember to name the sub-folders so you remember which is which). Secondly, move the playthrough you’d like to load from its sub-folder into the main savedata directory, which will enable you to continue from that file.
Source: PC Gaming Wiki
It's a pain but so far it's the only way. :/ I'm getting sick of this checkpoint save system games have started implementing.
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