Black Panther is a movie with no villains. Discuss

[Silvermoth]

Hi everyone,

What do you think about the idea that no one in this movie is a villain. Everyone has nuance, even Killmonger. It's actually about different politics. Killmonger is extreme right and Nakia is closer to hard left.

Spoiler

even the movie's ending implies Killmonger had a point and if anything would be a major part of the new wakanda. The point is that no one is exactly right, and it's T'challa's role to be the sensible centre and work out what works and what doesn't from everyone's ideology

What do you think?

 

[Aximili86]

Killmonger's still a villain, even if he does have a point.

Zemo had a point, Vanko kinda had a point, Loki's at least semi-sympathetic in the first Thor even though he's wrong. Hell, guess you could even make a smidgen of an argument for Ronan, twisted and extreme as he was with it.

Just because Erik's pointing something out that there's a kernel of truth to, doesn't mean he's not still an extremist or a villain.

 

[jmc]

Of course there's a villain. Just because you can understand and even sympathise with the character doesn't mean he's not a bad person. The Joker makes a very convincing argument in TDK that its easy for good people to do terrible things, that doesn't take away the terrible things he's done. Same deal with Killmonger. Yeah, you can understand were he's coming from, but that doesn't mean what he's doing is right.

 

[Solaire]

Film had 2 villains. Kinda tiring seeing how people can say it’s hard to call a certain person a villain.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Killmonger is conclusively a villain.

 

[EmperorCommodus]

I mean, didn't Erick want to kill children? Didn't he explicitly say that?

 

[Dark Raven]

Aren't they both villains? They did villainous actions. Just because their motivations might have certain things you could understand doesn't mean it makes them non villainous.

 

[chamber-music]

He is still a villain.

What he was willing to do to achieve his objective was not justified because of what happened to.

 

[Iceman]

I think the film had 2 strong villains. And just because Killmonger had good motivation doesn't make him not a villain.

 

[jfurioso]

That he had understandable and convincing motivation is what made him a great villain. I think it is better to even dispense of the word "villain" with its reductive connotations. He was a great enemy/opponent with a strong agenda.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

That he had understandable and convincing motivation is what made him a great villain. I think it is better to even dispense of the word "villain" with its reductive connotations. He was a great enemy/opponent with a strong agenda.

100% this. The best “villains” are the ones where you can step back and say, yeah, if that had happened to me, I might be just like that. You want to hope you’d be like the hero...but it’s not hard to see how you’d justify going another way.

 

[fancyarcher]

Disagree. There are two clear antagonists, one major, one secondary. Killmonger had a good motivation, but he went about that said motivation the wrong way, and was still an antagonistic force, at the end of the day.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah. It's basically dangerous at a certain point to carry this "you can empathise with them so they're not a villain" thing that far.

How you do stuff matters as much as what you do, folks.

 

[chaseter]

Killmonger is Hitler-esque with his master race plan to conquer with death. No rational human empathizes with Hitler regardless of their horrible past. Killmonger is 100% a villain.

It was even ironic to see all of Wakanda (except for Lupita) being xenophobic and wanting to keep refugees out. Luckily BP realizes that’s wrong at the end of the movie.

 

[Vendark]

He shot his own girlfriend in the face

 

[chaseter]

Hitler or Killmonger...oh wait.............

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, Killmonger was entirely a villain. He just wasn't motivated by selfishness or psychopathy. He was a true believer with a cause he would do anything to achieve. This doesn't make him not-villainous, if anything, it makes him the most dangerous kind of villain: the one driven by twisted virtue, rather than vice.

 

[Raiden]

The Tragedy of Erik Killmonger

Spoilers alert. This writer gives very solid points on why Killmonger should be regarded as a villain, not a hero, even though his stance ended up changing Wakanda forever.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

He shot his own girlfriend in the face

Bingo.

 

[Knight-Tale]

He's the hero of the movie
He changed the protagonists way of thinking through his rational discourse
He made good character believe in his cause because he was right
He legitamately wanted to help oppressed people whereas the heroes sought to do nothing

If Killmonger was never in the movie Wakanda would still be a 100% isolationist nation

 

[psylockolussus]

Killmonger and Klaue are straight up villains.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

He's the hero of the movie
He changed the protagonists way of thinking through his rational discourse
He made good character believe in his cause because he was right
He legitamately wanted to help oppressed people whereas the heroes sought to do nothing

If Killmonger was never in the movie Wakanda would still be a 100% isolationist nation

Uh... huh...


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Read through that again. Kilmonger's "rational discourse".

 

[Knight-Tale]

Uh... huh...


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Read through that again. Kilmonger's "rational discourse".

If anyone had a legitamate rebuttal to any of therhetoric of killmonger I didn't hear it. That's why the movie props up his message because nobody challenged or invalidated it. The hero even incorporates his viewpoint in his own way
Conscious decision by the Director
All Okoye could say is Wakanda doesn't conquer not "Your way is bad"
All T'challa could do is either say I am King, You are no better than the oppressors, or look sad

 

[Spider-Fan]

He's the hero of the movie
He changed the protagonists way of thinking through his rational discourse
He made good character believe in his cause because he was right
He legitamately wanted to help oppressed people whereas the heroes sought to do nothing

If Killmonger was never in the movie Wakanda would still be a 100% isolationist nation

Did we watch the same movie? Just because T'Challa's position changed on Wakanda's sharing of resources doesn't mean he incorporated his whole viewpoint. Do you see Wakanda trying to conquer everybody and destabalize governments? No, T'Challa is going about it the peaceful way. Killmonger is not portrayed as a hero. T'Challa calls him a monster several times. The main characters continuously point out how evil and filled with hate he is. They point out his flaws plenty of times.

 

[Lencho01]

Dude’s name is Killmonger and he’s marked his body with every kill he’s had. Yeah, he’s clearly not meant to be a villain...