Blade Runner 2049 - Part 4

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different strokes

it can't begin to touch the original for me, it's too awkward and unwieldy with the Her rip-off subplot with Joi (though that relationship does serve a strong purpose in the film, if distracted from too much by the film's diffuse focus once Deckard enters) and, even worse, the cliched resistance subplot that should have been cut from the film entirely. I don't like that the film retroactively grafts world-shattering import on the events of the original, which was somewhat unique in its genre for having an epic world but an intimate story, a simple sci-fi noir tale with existential themes. that said, 2049 does manage to take that starting point to an interesting place with the questions posed by Leto's character to Ford in his "heaven," and Ford's response is heartbreaking and powerful and simple, the way he delivers it and the way the film frames it. "I know what's real." In that, it doesn't matter if Deckard is human or not, or if his relationship with Rachel was constructed or not. What he feels, and what they shared, was real. And Ford manages to bring what feels like the weight of years of pain and doubt and memory and finally resolution to that line. It's beautiful and it really makes me accept how 2049 builds off the original, no matter my other qualms.

Anyways, 80% of 2049 is quite good, and I don't have a problem with the pacing, just the unnecessary plot elements. with some tweaks and excisions, might have even ended up a masterpiece in my mind.

but it still wouldn't have been as good as the original for me. which is no slight on 2049, it's kind of amazing they even managed to make a good sequel all these years later to a movie like Blade Runner. but Blade Runner is a Top 20 all-time movie for me.
None of these things are "subplots" or side stories imo. They are very much a part of the plot of the film.

It's not a Her rip off. Unless Her was a Blade Runner or even Halo rip off. :woot: One of my favorite aspects of Joi is how it touches on the general hierarchy of what it means to be "alive" in the film, without it being "in your face". And that is outside of what happens between her and K.

Love the Resistance. A natural offshoot to how Replicants are treated, and a major factor in the overall plot of the film.

The original Blade Runner to me is a bit like Star Wars. I love both, but The Empire Strikes Back is The Empire Strikes Back. 2049 takes a fantastic foundation and builds on it in a way that just resulted in a film superior in its craftsmanship, with just more too it. Like I said before, I think 2049 makes me like the original less, because how it gives me what I love about the original, but done so much better. Even K compared to Deckard. Deckard in the original film doesn't feel like a character in comparison. When K is on those steps at the end of the film, I feel like I have been on an all time great journey, with a character I legitimately care for.
 
None of these things are "subplots" or side stories imo. They are very much a part of the plot of the film.

It's not a Her rip off. Unless Her was a Blade Runner or even Halo rip off. :woot: One of my favorite aspects of Joi is how it touches on the general hierarchy of what it means to be "alive" in the film, without it being "in your face". And that is outside of what happens between her and K.

Love the Resistance. A natural offshoot to how Replicants are treated, and a major factor in the overall plot of the film.

The original Blade Runner to me is a bit like Star Wars.
I love both, but The Empire Strikes Back is The Empire Strikes Back. 2049 takes a fantastic foundation and builds on it in a way that just resulted in a film superior in its craftsmanship, with just more too it. Like I said before, I think 2049 makes me like the original less, because how it gives me what I love about the original, but done so much better. Even K compared to Deckard. Deckard in the original film doesn't feel like a character in comparison. When K is on those steps at the end of the film, I feel like I have been on an all time great journey, with a character I legitimately care for.

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Star Wars aint even good enough to wash BR jock strap.
Well, I disagree. :yay:

But again, not what I meant. It was the difference between the first films and the sequel. Star Wars to Empire. Blade Runner to 2049.
 
Well, I disagree. :yay:

But again, not what I meant. It was the difference between the first films and the sequel. Star Wars to Empire. Blade Runner to 2049.

I know what you meant, bald man. Just never bring them up in the same sentence. Abomination. SW can remain with the Howard the Duck or Alien 3 of the film world. :o

Blade Runner is the woman you marry. Bring her home to meet the folks.

SW is the one woman who takes you on jerry springer to confront you over sleeping with her cousin.
 
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So apart from Black Narcissus being completely wrong, are you saying you like Blade Runer 2049 better than the first film, Darthy?
 
Someone is upset someone else made a better Blade Runner film then him. Like Cameron made a better Alien movie. :funny:

Also someone wants a Star Wars job. :hehe:

I think Blade Runner was a better movie. The story in Blade Runner may have been simpler, but Blade Runner 2049 also was less subtle with its message. Further, I would say the best thing in either movie is Roy. His death scene in Blade Runner is the best scene in either movie, hands down.

Blade Runner 2049 is great and a solid sequel, but Blade Runner is one of my like 5 favorite movies.
 
I liked this one a lot, I thought it kept the spirit of the original but I found the original to be superior, there was just a bit more mystery there and I agree that Roy is the best thing about both films
 
Am I the only one who wasn’t enamored by Roy Batty in the original? Nothing against him; he’s a good character and it’s an interesting subversion of the traditional hero/villain narrative. But I don’t find him so mesmerizing that he tops everything else in either movie.
 
Roy Batty and the set design is likely what stuck with people the most.

Everything else is fairly disposable in the scifi genre.
 
I think Blade Runner was a better movie. The story in Blade Runner may have been simpler, but Blade Runner 2049 also was less subtle with its message. Further, I would say the best thing in either movie is Roy. His death scene in Blade Runner is the best scene in either movie, hands down.

Blade Runner 2049 is great and a solid sequel, but Blade Runner is one of my like 5 favorite movies.
I quite like Batty. Great character. But I'd take Luv over him, and I don't even find her the best part of 2049. The film is built around K, and for me he is the best character in the series.

We can debate which is more subtle (comparing both Tears in the Rain scenes, 2049 is far more subtle imo), but I find 2049 themes far more complex and better presented. Blade Runner is very basic sci-fi in comparison to 2049. Also 2049 treats its characters far better in terms of actual depth, while also not treating all the female characters as disposable at best.

Heck, 2049 actually turned Deckard into a character, and actually made a problematic relationship actually not completely awful.

I know I said this before, but 2049 makes me think less of the original. An assortment of quality characters, superior shot and directed, better editing, better acting, and better music. There is just scene after scene that gets me. Put together better then anything in the original imo. And that is saying something, because I still like the original quite a bit. But I might be out of love with after 2049.
 
I quite like Batty. Great character. But I'd take Luv over him, and I don't even find her the best part of 2049. The film is built around K, and for me he is the best character in the series.

We can debate which is more subtle (comparing both Tears in the Rain scenes, 2049 is far more subtle imo), but I find 2049 themes far more complex and better presented. Blade Runner is very basic sci-fi in comparison to 2049. Also 2049 treats its characters far better in terms of actual depth, while also not treating all the female characters as disposable at best.

Heck, 2049 actually turned Deckard into a character, and actually made a problematic relationship actually not completely awful.

I know I said this before, but 2049 makes me think less of the original. An assortment of quality characters, superior shot and directed, better editing, better acting, and better music. There is just scene after scene that gets me. Put together better then anything in the original imo. And that is saying something, because I still like the original quite a bit. But I might be out of love with after 2049.

I don't agree. I can feel this movie's length. Blade Runner flowed more organically. Deckard also has more character in Blade Runner than I think is initially apparent, but again for me that goes into what is shown vs saying the message out loud. Blade Runner doesn't spell the mystery out as much. It does it through visuals far more, which I tend to prefer. Example, 2049 tells you why the horse is important in dialogue, while the unicorn is done through visuals. No one says exactly what the unicorn is, it has to be inferred.

There is much to love about 2049. No argument. I just cannot get behind it being overall superior.
 
I don't agree. I can feel this movie's length. Blade Runner flowed more organically. Deckard also has more character in Blade Runner than I think is initially apparent, but again for me that goes into what is shown vs saying the message out loud. Blade Runner doesn't spell the mystery out as much. It does it through visuals far more, which I tend to prefer. Example, 2049 tells you why the horse is important in dialogue, while the unicorn is done through visuals. No one says exactly what the unicorn is, it has to be inferred.

There is much to love about 2049. No argument. I just cannot get behind it being overall superior.
I feel Blade Runner's length during the Enhance scene and the rape scene.

I'd say 2049 easily says more though its visual, while also using dialogue to paint just as vivid a picture. The Base Line test and sequence with Stelline are two great examples imo. I actually think the question presented by Deckard at the end, asking why K helped him is a great example of how the film is open, but presents actual potential answers.

And of course the film tells you why the horse is important. Because the horse is used to enhance K's relationships and character. The relationship between K and Joi is just so much better then anything in the first film imo, and the horse adds quite a bit to it. Because the first film isn't big on characters, it doesn't do much of that at all. But then again, you have Tyrell and Deckard explaining the test on Rachel.

Well I can. Because well, I felt it was all better. :woot:
 
Just like the original, this is a film I can see myself revisiting every couple of years, even if I don't completely love them. There's just something about it that makes me wanna get back.
 
I quite like Batty. Great character. But I'd take Luv over him, and I don't even find her the best part of 2049. The film is built around K, and for me he is the best character in the series.

We can debate which is more subtle (comparing both Tears in the Rain scenes, 2049 is far more subtle imo), but I find 2049 themes far more complex and better presented. Blade Runner is very basic sci-fi in comparison to 2049. Also 2049 treats its characters far better in terms of actual depth, while also not treating all the female characters as disposable at best.

Heck, 2049 actually turned Deckard into a character, and actually made a problematic relationship actually not completely awful.

I know I said this before, but 2049 makes me think less of the original. An assortment of quality characters, superior shot and directed, better editing, better acting, and better music. There is just scene after scene that gets me. Put together better then anything in the original imo. And that is saying something, because I still like the original quite a bit. But I might be out of love with after 2049.

Agreed, especially with what you said in regards to the female characters. 2049 felt very feminist in a lot of ways; K's superior officer was a woman, the leader of the resistance and her top agent were both female, Joy actually has more power over K than he has over her despite her being a program designed to please him, Luv is superior to K and he only defeats here out of sheer determination, and we find out at the end that [BLACKOUT] Deckard's daughter -- not K -- is the "special" one and K himself is not important. [/BLACKOUT]

I also find 2049 more impactful on an emotional level. As great as the original film is, I don't really feel anything for the characters, other than maybe Batty towards the end. But while 2049 didn't exactly bring me to tears, I really felt a lot for K, Deckard, Stelline and even Sapper. And I feel that emotional payoff, more than anything else, is what puts the distance between 2049 and its predecessor. It ticks all the right boxes, at least for me.
 
Coming from a newly ordained BR fan I do think 2049 is more immediately accessible than its predecessor. I hated BR the first time I watched it, gave it another try later on and it still didn't do much for me. It wasn't until I decided to try watching it one last time the week 2049 came out that the movie just clicked for me and I LOVED it. And maybe watching it primed my brain for 2049 because after one viewing I thought 2049 was damn near a masterpiece.

Despite its length I think the way the movie itself is constructed is more inviting to more casual people, in terms of performances, plot, even the little spurts of action here and there. The original BR I think is a film that demands to be rewatched to let it wash over you and you gotta watch the right version, in crisp HD in order to really appreciate it.
 
I was much the same, Id heard all these great things about BR back in the day as I was a bit too young when it first came out to see it but after the first watch I wondered what all the fuss was about about after watching it again and again it ended up being one of my all time favourites. It was a real grower for me and there hasnt been many like it since, its usually an instant like/dislike in most cases.
 
Same here, man, and I think part of the problem BR faced, which isn't BR's fault, is that it often gets labeled as one of the all time great 80's "Action" films. So, I think there's a ton of people, myself included, who hears about this noir action thriller and we see that cool looking cover of Harrison Ford holding a gun and our minds are primed to expect a certain type of movie. And because BR is NOT that, its a jarring experience and you're left cold with it. But then you rewatch it, knowing what to expect this time and in a proper mindset, it can really be an amazing movie going experience.

I'll say this, and this may sound crazy but upon my third rewatch the movie felt a LOT shorter and faster paced than I remembered. By the time the climax came around i was shocked that the movie was almost over already as I had remembered it being a long, slowwww, ponderous film but i didn't feel that this time.
 
The first is a Phillip Marlowe 'Maltese Falcon' noir set in the future, it's not a all out action flick. It's a film about identity, what it is to have a soul, and the value of the human (or otherwise) spirit, it's not the Terminator or a Sly picture.

BR2049, faithfully takes this thesis and builds the audience around this and does not shy or apologise for the length of intricacy it wishes to provide and draw you into, and rightly so.
 
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