Bone claws!?

[danoyse]

well that would make most people that complained that he had to much screen time in the x-movies, and you just dont film the gore, the violence yes just like in all the x-movies, kill , but no blood, plus as the name suggests its weapon x so its about the project not solely wolverine, it would make an excellent movie plus i love the science of the story really lets you know why he is the best there is at what he does. but so that we are on topic the books say his claws are bone so they should be

So wait...the people who complained that he had too much screen time in the previous movies would prefer a spinoff film that had him like a zombie for most of the story? He'd still be there as the focus of the story, how would that make them happy?

I get where you're going, you'd like to see all of the Weapon X story in it's full surgical glory, but as a movie it wouldn't work unless there was more to it. There were a few parts of that novel that sounded more like a Saw sequel than an X-Men movie. That story was bloody, you can't tone it down.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

In other words, they made it up when his adamantium was removed.

yep.

 

[cryptic name]

I'd say it is more than just implied, but yes.


I honestly can't see how. Metal being moulded into claws is hardly out of the realm of possibility. But it wasn't coincidence that they just turned out looking like knives/claws, they were indeed moulded that way.

sigh...least they woulda been...stupid bone-claws revelation...

whoever was doing this would also need to have constructed an artificial tendon system for wolverine to extend and retract his claws, and it's hard to believe none of the scientists in the room would recognize a whole new set of musculature in his arms.

 

[cryptic name]

C: He had bone claws but they were removed and adamantium claws inserted instead.

i like this

 

[Nightmare]

i like this

Me too, it'd be cool to see.

 

[Beanjuice]

im skeptical on the bone claws however it does make his mutation seem more meaningful. just a healing factor and super sense would be lame. but im warming up to the idea of bone claws

 

[Nighthawk_Fan]

They should use the bone claws until a certain extent.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

showing bone claws would also show how weapon-x "stole" a part of him forever by weakening his healing factor

 

[BoredGuy]

What people who are against the bone claws seem to fail to realize is that, if scientists had fully implanted the claws into Wolverine, his body would've rejected it!!
The man can't get drunk or even get a tattoo because of his healing factor, and you think his body would just be cool with these foreign contraptions being put in?? No way! that's just stupid...
It would be like when a piercing works it's way out of an eyebrow or a nipple(which DOES happen), his body would've pushed the claws and all the mechanisms out through his skin (which would be gross an yet awesome to see in a comic)

 

[Congo Jack]

What people who are against the bone claws seem to fail to realize is that, if scientists had fully implanted the claws into Wolverine, his body would've rejected it!! The man can't get drunk or even get a tattoo because of his healing factor, and you think his body would just be cool with these foreign contraptions being put in?? No way! that's just stupid...

He can and has been drunk on numerous occasions, it just takes a lot of alcohol. Sabretooth was sporting tatoos a while back. And ok, so your theory relies on pure adamantium claws counting as a "foreign contraption" but the skeleton that was bonded to his bones does not? No way! That's just stupid...

 

[BoredGuy]

He can and has been drunk on numerous occasions, it just takes a lot of alcohol. Sabretooth was sporting tatoos a while back. And ok, so your theory relies on pure adamantium claws counting as a "foreign contraption" but the skeleton that was bonded to his bones does not? No way! That's just stupid...

Okay but ya said it right there, Sabertooth HAD tattoos a while back, doesn't now... The artists would probably attribute it to his healing factor... And the adamantium is supposed to be bonded to his skeleton on a molecular level, I wouldn't imagine you could bond the sensors and other necessary equipment to his muscles on a molecular level...

But this IS comic book logic and biology, so anything works given the old "suspension of disbelief" line... to each there own on preference about the bone claws i guess

 

[Sub-Zero]

not sure if this was confirmed, but the opening scene is young logan being bullied by a bunch of football players in the 1950s or something. he unsheaths his claws and attacks them. if this is true then we'll see bone claws. i'm sure someone mentioned this before.

its like someone said before they didn't replace his skeleton with adamantium. they just bonded the metal to his bones, so its possible that the knife-like movie claws could've looked similar in bone form?

 

[Savage]

That's from an earlier script. I'm not sure if it's still going to be in the movie or not. It's quite old.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

BoredGuy, your post makes perfect sense.

His body would have rejected the adamantium claws and grown back the bone claws overnight.

The claws from the films are 3D, unlike the flat sheets from the comic. I'm sure they simply covered the bone claws with adamantium and reshaped them into a blade that can chop from 3 different angles. The bone claws could only stab, they couldn't slice and dice like the Adamantium claws.

-TL

 

[Midnhtsun]

I have said it many times in here and I will say it again. The Bone Claws story line was just a hack attempt to kept Wolverine slicing and dicing after his adamantium was ripped from his body. Now granted, it does make perfect sense concerning the muscles needed to protrude and pull adamantium claws that Stryker could not and did not create. To me, bone claws is like Carnage...just a hack attempt to keep a character alive...aka Wolverine and Venom. Don't get me started on clones and zombies It also seems like they are giving Wolverine just a host of mutant abilities where as most others only have 1 or 2.

eh maybe im misreading this but the removal of the adamantium and the realization was all in the same cross over, removal was in Uncanny xmen (i believe) then the realization was in Wolverine released the same month. so I dont buy the "attempt" to keep him slicing and dicing. It was marvels attempt to breathe more life into wolverine and break from the normal storylines. Don't forget this was about the time marvels popularity was dropping off and they were trying to find more ways to bring readers in.
Just cause you didn't like it doesnt mean it was a hack attempt. They did a pretty decent job on trying new things with his character. Up until that point wolverine was pretty much defined by his healing factor and his adamantium, take one away and what would that do to him?

 

[Congo Jack]

Just cause you didn't like it doesnt mean it was a hack attempt. They did a pretty decent job on trying new things with his character.

I hate the bone-claws more than anyone, but I'm inclined to agree. I hate the bone-claws revelation because, to me, it destroys the overall mythos of the Wolverine character. However, Larry Hama told some really good stories during this period of WOLVERINE.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I hate the bone-claws more than anyone, but I'm inclined to agree. I hate the bone-claws revelation because, to me, it destroys the overall mythos of the Wolverine character. However, Larry Hama told some really good stories during this period of WOLVERINE.

How in any way do bone claws ruin the mythos of Wolverine?

Lets look at the established elements of the character.

1) Being a super-spy mutant involved in the Canadian army. He was later attacked and forced to undergo experiments against his will that increased his ability to kill but also nearly destroyed his humanity?

Do the bone claws ruin that? No, the theme of Weapon X was not "he gets metal claws" it was that humans did horrible things to Wolverine. It was about how he almost lost himself to his animal side and became a monster. Having bone claws negates none of the impact of that story.

2) Being a failed Samurai. A man that has always strove for inner peace and honor but can't quite come to grips with his animalistic side and always falls short of his mark. A man with loads of self hate for what he has become.

Do bone claws ruin that side of the character? No, they don't. They don't effect the story at all. Heck, you could tell that story with Wolverine having no claws at all, or with cardboard claws that come out of his hands. It doesn't matter, having metal or bone claws don't allow or hinder the writer in telling that aspect of the story.

Bone claws didn't hurt the mythos, and compared the original example for the metal claws offered in the Weapon X story, they make far more sense.

 

[Congo Jack]

I am so sick of this debate. Unless Infinity asks for a response on this, this’ll be my last post in this thread.

How in any way do bone claws ruin the mythos of Wolverine?

I should have phrased that: “Ruin an aspect of the mythos…”. I apologise because it doesn’t affect the ‘failed samurai’ characterization that Claremont began to expand upon in the WOLVERINE mini.

1) Being a super-spy mutant involved in the Canadian army. He was later attacked and forced to undergo experiments against his will that increased his ability to kill but also nearly destroyed his humanity?

Do the bone claws ruin that? No, the theme of Weapon X was not "he gets metal claws" it was that humans did horrible things to Wolverine. It was about how he almost lost himself to his animal side and became a monster. Having bone claws negates none of the impact of that story.

Did I ever suggest a theme was "he gets metal claws"? No, and I very much doubt you believe that’s what I think either. More specifically than “it was that humans did horrible things to Wolverine“, a theme of the character was that humans were playing god, and turned the man Logan into a weapon.

It was about how he almost lost himself to his animal side and became a monster.

This is a constant struggle with Logan. Let me refer you to Claremont’s script for UNCANNY X-MEN #205, where Wolverine is speaking to Deathstrike:
“My healing factor makes me a mutant. Lacing my bones with adamantium an’ giving me these claws - that was done to me. But - you asked to be changed. You did this to yourself. Threw away a humanity I’d give pretty near anything to possess.”

The external actions by the military caused internal agony within Logan. Although ORIGIN doesn’t make Wolverine ask for the claws at birth, it does take away from the aspect that the claws were forced upon him by men looking to create and control a weapon.

2) Being a failed Samurai…

“you could tell that story with Wolverine having no claws at all” - very true. I offer no rebuttal in this instance… see above.

Bone claws didn't hurt the mythos, and compared the original example for the metal claws offered in the Weapon X story, they make far more sense.

Bone claws hurt the mythos, while Logan first gaining adamantium claws due to the actions of the military is of benefit to the Wolverine story. It's all opinion.

 

[Midnhtsun]

How in any way do bone claws ruin the mythos of Wolverine?

Lets look at the established elements of the character.

1) Being a super-spy mutant involved in the Canadian army. He was later attacked and forced to undergo experiments against his will that increased his ability to kill but also nearly destroyed his humanity?

Do the bone claws ruin that? No, the theme of Weapon X was not "he gets metal claws" it was that humans did horrible things to Wolverine. It was about how he almost lost himself to his animal side and became a monster. Having bone claws negates none of the impact of that story.

2) Being a failed Samurai. A man that has always strove for inner peace and honor but can't quite come to grips with his animalistic side and always falls short of his mark. A man with loads of self hate for what he has become.

Do bone claws ruin that side of the character? No, they don't. They don't effect the story at all. Heck, you could tell that story with Wolverine having no claws at all, or with cardboard claws that come out of his hands. It doesn't matter, having metal or bone claws don't allow or hinder the writer in telling that aspect of the story.

Bone claws didn't hurt the mythos, and compared the original example for the metal claws offered in the Weapon X story, they make far more sense.

Agreed, I think the bone claws gave us an interesting perspective to the character, although could have been a bit better. I like the idea of him having bone claws. It makes more sense him having them all the time, everything about him he is suppose to be a wolverine. Originally the creators discussed making his origins that he was a wolverine turned man. Thankfully they didnt go that route!

 

[Infinity9999x]

I am so sick of this debate. Unless Infinity asks for a response on this, this’ll be my last post in this thread.

I would like a reply, so if you'll humor me Jack, I'll be much obliged.

I should have phrased that: “Ruin an aspect of the mythos…”. I apologise because it doesn’t affect the ‘failed samurai’ characterization that Claremont began to expand upon in the WOLVERINE mini.


Did I ever suggest a theme was "he gets metal claws"? No, and I very much doubt you believe that’s what I think either. More specifically than “it was that humans did horrible things to Wolverine“, a theme of the character was that humans were playing god, and turned the man Logan into a weapon.


This is a constant struggle with Logan. Let me refer you to Claremont’s script for UNCANNY X-MEN #205, where Wolverine is speaking to Deathstrike:
“My healing factor makes me a mutant. Lacing my bones with adamantium an’ giving me these claws - that was done to me. But - you asked to be changed. You did this to yourself. Threw away a humanity I’d give pretty near anything to possess.”

The external actions by the military caused internal agony within Logan. Although ORIGIN doesn’t make Wolverine ask for the claws at birth, it does take away from the aspect that the claws were forced upon him by men looking to create and control a weapon.

I don't really see the claws hurting this aspect of the mythos for the simple reason that it was much more then the claws being forced into him that did the real damage.

The biggest hurt to him was taking away his memory and altering it, and then trying to completely strip him of his own ability to control himself and turn him into a human killer.

You could tell that story without claws being included. The biggest aspect of weapon X is not that they gave him claws, it's that (as you said) humans tried to play god, and tried to strip him of his humanity.

The biggest hurt for Wolverine is simply the fact that they did things to his body and mind against his will, it doesn't matter on the specifics of exactly what they did to him, it's that they took a person and did horrible things to him and that the person had no say in what happened to their body. Basically, it's the non-sexual equivalent of rape.

 

[Congo Jack]

Infinity, if it appears that I'm rambling, then I probably am - but bear with me...

I don't know if you read Spider-Man, but the origin of Spider-Man is universally known so I'm hoping this will make sense regardless. A few years ago, a writer called Straczynski took over AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and started introducing new elements and characters. One of these characters was Ezekiel, who posed the question to Spider-Man: "Did the radiation enable the spider to give you these powers? Or was the spider trying to give you those powers before the radiation killed it?"

With Spider-Man, we all know the major theme is "With great power comes great responsibility", not "Guy gets randomly bit by spider". But to me, the potential storyline that the spider was seeking out Peter Parker would have hurt the mythos of Spider-Man. Now that doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but the old storyline (IMO) is simply better the way it was.

Another theory he had was that the animalistic foes Spidey battles - Rhino, Doc Ock, the Vulture are totems for these animals and this is why they hate Spider-Man. Onca again this doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but (for me anyway), it would have hurt the character.

I think it's a good analogy, as this is the way I feel the bone claws impact negatively on the character. But it's all opinion; I don't look down on anyone for enjoying the bone claws retcon - ORIGIN was well-told, as was FATAL ATTRACTIONS - and I hope it's the same for that crowd who see that I prefer the story line as it was.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Infinity, if it appears that I'm rambling, then I probably am - but bear with me...

I don't know if you read Spider-Man, but the origin of Spider-Man is universally known so I'm hoping this will make sense regardless. A few years ago, a writer called Straczynski took over AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and started introducing new elements and characters. One of these characters was Ezekiel, who posed the question to Spider-Man: "Did the radiation enable the spider to give you these powers? Or was the spider trying to give you those powers before the radiation killed it?"

With Spider-Man, we all know the major theme is "With great power comes great responsibility", not "Guy gets randomly bit by spider". But to me, the potential storyline that the spider was seeking out Peter Parker would have hurt the mythos of Spider-Man. Now that doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but the old storyline (IMO) is simply better the way it was.

Another theory he had was that the animalistic foes Spidey battles - Rhino, Doc Ock, the Vulture are totems for these animals and this is why they hate Spider-Man. Onca again this doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but (for me anyway), it would have hurt the character.

I think it's a good analogy, as this is the way I feel the bone claws impact negatively on the character. But it's all opinion; I don't look down on anyone for enjoying the bone claws retcon - ORIGIN was well-told, as was FATAL ATTRACTIONS - and I hope it's the same for that crowd who see that I prefer the story line as it was.

I know what you mean with SPidey, but I fail to see the analogy. Im pretty neutral on the whole issue but if i was to vote Id say bone claws. I dont see the impact being that great it just means hes been ripping stuff up since before he was experimented on

 

[the a1ant]

I had a weird dream about the Wolverine movie. Logan was running in an underground facility and started shooting bone claws from his knuckles. Later, he started learning how to control and retract the claws to keep them attached...it was bloody

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I had a weird dream about the Wolverine movie. Logan was running in an underground facility and started shooting bone claws from his knuckles. Later, he started learning how to control and retract the claws to keep them attached...it was bloody

Oh man, if that happens...

 

[Infinity9999x]

Infinity, if it appears that I'm rambling, then I probably am - but bear with me...

I don't know if you read Spider-Man, but the origin of Spider-Man is universally known so I'm hoping this will make sense regardless. A few years ago, a writer called Straczynski took over AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and started introducing new elements and characters. One of these characters was Ezekiel, who posed the question to Spider-Man: "Did the radiation enable the spider to give you these powers? Or was the spider trying to give you those powers before the radiation killed it?"

With Spider-Man, we all know the major theme is "With great power comes great responsibility", not "Guy gets randomly bit by spider". But to me, the potential storyline that the spider was seeking out Peter Parker would have hurt the mythos of Spider-Man. Now that doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but the old storyline (IMO) is simply better the way it was.

Another theory he had was that the animalistic foes Spidey battles - Rhino, Doc Ock, the Vulture are totems for these animals and this is why they hate Spider-Man. Onca again this doesn't change "With great power comes great responsibility", but (for me anyway), it would have hurt the character.

I think it's a good analogy, as this is the way I feel the bone claws impact negatively on the character. But it's all opinion; I don't look down on anyone for enjoying the bone claws retcon - ORIGIN was well-told, as was FATAL ATTRACTIONS - and I hope it's the same for that crowd who see that I prefer the story line as it was.

That's the best argument I've heard against the bone claws in a while. And I can see your point, because I do love Spider-man and I hated the idea of the totem thing. Actually, I'm not too pleased with what's happened to Spidey recently, but that's for another topic.

I think for me, the reason why the Totem Spider-man changes bothered me more then the Bone-claw retcon is this. The Totem aspect changed Spider-man's character. It would have changed his character into a mystical figure, one who gets his powers from the supernatural. That is unacceptable to me because it completely alters the character. Spider-man has never been, nor should he ever be a superhero with ties to the mystic. That's Dr. Strange's stage, not Spidey's.

Whereas the bone claws don't alter Wolverine's character. With metal claws or with bone claws Wolverine's character is still the same. He's still the same man who underwent horrors in the Weapon X program and the same man that strives for inner peace and honor in the samurai way. He's still the same beer-loving short tempered Canadian.

The bone claws still fit with the gritty character Wolverine is, whereas the totem aspect introduced a whole new realm to Spidey that has never been part of the character, nor ever should be in my opinion.

But as you've said, it all comes down to personal preference. I personally was never bothered by the bone claws because when I got interested in Wolverine he had bone claws, so I grew up with it.