Bought/Thought "Cee Dubyah" Edition for Nov.15th 2007

[Darthphere]

Darn.

 

[Not Jake]

I think that sums it up. At least, for the white man.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

civil war #5:
there's either three daredevils running around, or two. i can't be sure. i mean, there's matt who's in france. then there's danny, who's shown with cap at the secret base. then at the end, "daredevil" is captured and brought in by shield agents. so the caught daredevil is either danny or someone else. my money's on the punisher. i think off panel, cap made his decision, and planted frank in the devil suit to be captured, taken in, and eventually free the locked up heroes.
but that's just me.

See, that's why I love this place. Somebody always thinks of some plausible scenario that I totally never thought of. That means there's gonna be one sick prisonbreak soon! t:

 

[Roughneck]

civil war #5:
there's either three daredevils running around, or two. i can't be sure. i mean, there's matt who's in france. then there's danny, who's shown with cap at the secret base. then at the end, "daredevil" is captured and brought in by shield agents. so the caught daredevil is either danny or someone else. my money's on the punisher. i think off panel, cap made his decision, and planted frank in the devil suit to be captured, taken in, and eventually free the locked up heroes.

but that's just me.

Anyone think that Maybe Hulkling was the "DD"? And that was his important mission in Arizona?

 

[Doc Destruction]

If they can't detect a SKRULL in that prison, then that would be so silly it hurts.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

In that case, the he should agree to the FSI and try to get stationed in AZ?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

If they can't detect a SKRULL in that prison, then that would be so silly it hurts.

Why? He's got all our human organs right?

 

[Doc Destruction]

With a slight case of SKRULL DNA

 

[Colossal Spoons]

You think they do tests that extensive over in that prison? How meticulous.

 

[GNR]

Anyone think that Maybe Hulkling was the "DD"? And that was his important mission in Arizona?

Hulking is going to Arizona to [BLACKOUT]check something out going on with Henry Pym,who is revamping a classic Marvel team.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[GNR]

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?s=&showtopic=65638&view=findpost&p=1466872

 

[Dread]

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?s=&showtopic=65638&view=findpost&p=1466872

Nice to know that CIVIL WAR #6 will be out next month. Or so he says now.

So, Bendis has written White Tiger as actually not being flawless in a fight and wisecracking about it? Huh. Hadn't read any of that.

And yes, it did stink to see Spidey punked by C-Listers, but they needed bodies for Punisher so they couldn't use the A-Listers, as promised by the cover. Although, to be fair, both Jester & Jack O'Lantern were part of issue #4's last page, if I am not mistaken. Still, FRONTLINE's had more surprises at times, frankly.

Plus, I think DD may be a mole, too. While Stark & Co. are getting ruthless villians as their footsoldiers, the Secret Avengers are trying to free heroes who were arrested merely for "not signing a paper". See, one side you can root for and some you can't. The new Thunderbolts aren't "villians" in the sense that, say, Hawkeye was once a villian. Many of them are outright killers, remourseless at that.

 

[3dman27]

Hulking is going to Arizona to [BLACKOUT]check something out going on with Henry Pym,who is revamping a classic Marvel team.[/BLACKOUT]

withor wothout pro reg backing?[pym that is]

 

[BrianWilly]

Astonishing X-Men #18
Heheh. Ball of string. I was so sure that it was going to be the Cure. Much better this way.

Excellent end to the arc, answering all questions but asking more; once again Whedon proves that he understands these characters, these X-Men, far more than anyone as of late. I never liked Emma, even under Morrison, before Whedon got a hold of her. It was extra fitting that it would be Scott who finally understood what Emma was trying to do. And of course, he of all people would be the one who knew about survivor's guilt. I had hoped that Whedon would give Scott total control of his powers again, but this might be even better. I believe he has been without his powers before sometimes in the past, but let's see where this leads him, what with his newfound daredevilish gung-hoism.

One of the downers of the issue is that, especially towards the end, it's really hard to understand just what is happening thematically. Did Emma beat Cassandra in the end, or didn't she? Did Cassandra Nova possess Hisako, or didn't she? Did Hisako get beamed up with them? I guess we'll have to wait for the next arc to find out, 'cause I sure didn't get it..

And speaking of which...I'm not totally happy about the fact that there's going to be yet another X-Men arc in space with aliens or whatever. That's not what I read X-Men for. However, the fact that it's Whedon writing about space pretty much alleviates any doubts I could have, considering the last time he wrote about space pretty much brought upon one of the best things in all existence. And it's not as if he hasn't been setting up this ending right from the beginning of his creative run.

And y'know what? It's really not as if Marvel didn't bring it upon themselves. I want Whedon to tackle social discrimination issues with the X-Men as much as anyone else, but considering the environment for mutants that Marvel has created as of late, maybe it's just as good that he doesn't. Decimating mutants down to several hundred? Fascistic O*N*E squad hanging out at the mansion (though not any more)? They've pretty much completely destroyed any sort of fertile ground that prior writers like Morrison laid down that could have been exploited for racial allegories. What kind of stories can anyone write about that? Which writer with too much time on his hands would ever want to write X-Men stories with that kind of zero ground? If Whedon doesn't want to tackle social issues with the shtty backdrop and starting points that Marvel has given him, then I say more power to him.

Bring on Unstoppable.

(8.9 out of 10)
(9 out of 10 for the entire arc)


52 Week 28
Another decent enough week. Lotsa stuff happened, but unfortunately too little of it was interesting to me. Still, you can't really got too much space dolphins.

I'm not too crazy about the Batwoman/Renee/Question scenes in this issue. Age-old prophecies seem to be easily-broken these days (that's assuming that it has been broken, of course...). And the way that Intergang leader guy got away was just a bit too cliched for me. "Let me throw my hostage at you, person holding gun at me, while I dash away in the slapstick scuffle-to-follow!" I mean, we're talking trained police officer and the Question here. The scene was just hokey.

(6.9 out of 10)


Civil War #5
In Amazing Spider-Man #535, Spider-Man was told specifically, very very specifically, by Iron Man that the Negative Zone prison was not temporary, not "interim," but a longterm, permanent solution. This was a very important part of the issue and one that a lot of people caught on to.

Now, in Civil War #5, Iron Man tells Spider-Man that "this is only a temporary measure."

Yeah, good job keeping continuity there, Marvel. Good job delaying a comic for a month and a half and still having blatant continuity flaws with one of the most significant aspects of two of your most significant comics.

This should be exactly how you don't write big company crossovers. From the very beginning, people have been tossing criticisms that this act was too ill-defined and varied between different books and it seemed like no one writer had any idea what the hell any other writer was doing. Good job proving them right, Marvel.

Other than that, I was still pretty bored with this issue. Absolutely nothing happens that we haven't already guessed from the previews, and there's yet more political rambling from both sides ("Kids blowing up buildings!" "Freedom from killer cyborgs!" "It isn't 1940 anymore!") that we've all heard way too many times by now already. The entire first several pages with Sue and Johnny could have been cut and it wouldn't have affected any part of the story at all.

(On that note, can anyone tell when was the last time in the Marvel universe that a 16 year-old kid actually blew up a building? 'Cause I can't. And it's not like Jen Walters to make a sweeping generalization like that. Ooh, more fun mischaracterizations. Goody.)

Morever, you're telling me that out of the dozens upon dozens of anti-regs that have joined with Cap's side by now, absolutely none of them have black-ops skills on par with the Punisher's??

And I'm sorry, but if I have to hear one more writer make Iron Man say "Don't you think this is tearing me up too? Don't you think I hate what I'm doing too? Don't you think I'm sorry for all these horrible decisions I've had to make?" etc etc etc or words to that effect, I may just have to stab a bunny or something. Yes Millar, 'cause lord knows it's okay and we sympathize with him so much more for committing horrible, treacherous deeds so long as he, y'know, feel really bad about it and stuff.

(4.5 out of 10)


Green Lantern Corps #8
Pretty solid issue, detailing the lives and trials of our regular resident Lanterns. Always nice to see Guy getting props as the badass he is, and Soranik and the lizard guy's side stories were really quite effective.

(8 out of 10)


New Avengers #25
I was hoping that this would be one of those books that, for once, gets into a pro-reg's head -- in this instance, Iron Man -- and really tries to really show his side of the story so that even if we don't agree or sympathize with him, we'd at least understand him. Seeing as how Iron Man has really, really been receiving the short end of the stick as far as reader-sympathy goes -- and entirely due to the fault of the various writers behind this event -- I was hoping that this would be the one issue that gives him a little break for once and lets us in his shoes.

Unfortunately, that really, really doesn't happen. At least not for Iron Man. We don't get to hear his side of anything. We don't get to hear Tony's reasons, or his regrets, or his anything; poor Tony hardly gets in a word at all in the entire issue which was supposed to be about him. All we get is more sentiments from yet another anti-reg who, frankly, makes far too much sense for a terrorist suicide bomber.

On the other hand, Agent Maria Hill comes off really, really well in this issue. Perhaps it's due to Cheung's art, which makes her look so much more like Winona Ryder than she has any right to look like, or perhaps it's because we see her actually doing her job competently for once and taking down a villain that actually deserves getting taken down. She's been appearing more on this title than some of the regulars have been, and almost always has come off as a one-dimensional foil. In this instance though, we really get into her head and get to hear what she thinks about her place in all this and what she's going to do about it. I don't have to agree with her or sympathize with her, all that I have to do is to understand her, and know that the writers have made this attempt for me to understand her. Which is, frankly, far more than I can say for Iron Man right now, which has been the one character right from the outset that needed this most and should have been given it.

I like how Hill bonded with Iron Man (if they have sweaty fascist sex I'm totally gonna laugh and point) and her totally natural, totally organic passing of the torch to him. On the other hand, it does run contrary to the depiction we're seeing of her in Civil War, wherein she'll outright ignore Iron Man's requests and run things by her own self. But regular titles contradicting Civil War stuff is pretty common by now, so hey whatev.

(7.8 out of 10)

 

[Colossal Spoons]

4.5/10 for CW5. BrianWilly, you're brutally honest

 

[PWN3R]

I read Balde #1 and that it was utter meh. For some reason stuck around for #2 and it was a better kind of meh. I forgot to drop it, and I must say #3 was quite good. I really enjoyed it. The flashbacks worked perfect for the story in this issue unlike the first issue. Totally surprised.

 

[Nasty-B]

So who is to blame for all of the continuity errors? Other than the editors, I mean. Is it JMS? So far all of his tie ins, AMS and FF, have contradicted the main series in significant ways, what with the two entirely different Sue departures and the myriad mistakes evident in the fight between Stark and Spidey. Not to mention how Cap was miraculously healed in AMS and then appears to hve been rebattered in the main series. JMS has a serious history of screwing up continuity, which can be seen as recently as the Other. Or is it Millar? He did have plenty of time to adjust the regular series to fit the tie ins. For the love of Mike, the last issue of AMS came out like two months before CW5. I really do like the ideas that are being generated by CW: I like the challenge to the status quo, I actually think that Stark is a much more interesting character now, I like seeing Cap forced to once again choose between the government and the American ideal and I like seeing the Punisher playing an important part in a crossover. Still, I get the feeling that the main series is being written too much as a stand alone that will appeal to new readers that like the summer blockbuster vibe that Millar has engineered.

 

[GNR]

So who is to blame for all of the continuity errors? Other than the editors, I mean. Is it JMS? So far all of his tie ins, AMS and FF, have contradicted the main series in significant ways, what with the two entirely different Sue departures and the myriad mistakes evident in the fight between Stark and Spidey. Not to mention how Cap was miraculously healed in AMS and then appears to hve been rebattered in the main series. JMS has a serious history of screwing up continuity, which can be seen as recently as the Other. Or is it Millar? He did have plenty of time to adjust the regular series to fit the tie ins. For the love of Mike, the last issue of AMS came out like two months before CW5. I really do like the ideas that are being generated by CW: I like the challenge to the status quo, I actually think that Stark is a much more interesting character now, I like seeing Cap forced to once again choose between the government and the American ideal and I like seeing the Punisher playing an important part in a crossover. Still, I get the feeling that the main series is being written too much as a stand alone that will appeal to new readers that like the summer blockbuster vibe that Millar has engineered.

If anyone is to blame,it's the writers doing the tie-ins.

Mark wrote this book with only his main story in the 7 issues he wished to tell.It was the responsibilities of all the other writers to tie into his story however they wanted.

I also think JMS is to blame for the bad rep Stark is getting.After reading the first couple ASM tie-ins,it's pretty obvious JMS was writing Tony as a villain.

Read the main book alone,and you'll see a much more symapthatic and reasonable Tony.Not the prick JMS wrote in ASM,saying how he would use any means necessary to take down other heroes with an evil look in his eye,courtesy of Garney.

 

[Darthphere]

An 8.9 out of 10 for AXM BrianWilly? Wow, really?

 

[Dread]

An 8.9 out of 10 for AXM BrianWilly? Wow, really?

BrianWilly's a cool poster, but when his title says, "Disciple of Whedon", it's NOT false advertising. Which is okay, like I just said, he's up-front and honest about it.

I still want to get an explaination about how bullets disrupt telepathic illusions. I mean, that's just jack-stupid Punisher logic (along the lines of him killing Dr. Doom with a magnet & a sledgehammer in ENNIS MASTERBATES TO THE PUNISHER, known in the states as PUNISHER KILLS THE MARVEL UNIVERSE). And, yeah, it's nice to see Cyclops decisive and take-charge and whatnot, but why can this never happen when he actually has his powers lately? Whedon is going the "80's Storm" route only without the mohawk and I get that he "loves and understands" the characters, but can he do that as well as something new for them? All he's done is make Cyclops into his captain figure from SERINITY, right down to the facial stubble. The issue was an improvement but the arc just drug on far past it's welcome for me. Comic Books & Movies like to make hay of the "by abandoning your powers you suddenly become more efficient" logic, which goes against all reality as in real life, pro athletes pretty much take any cream, steroid, hormone injection or vitamin they can get away with, and then some. I mean in real life if Cyke went into a typical superhero battle without his powers, he'd be about as useless as Aunt May (especially since it's been maybe 7+ years since anyone remembered he was an expert at judo), but naturally he'll be getting all Batman-ish now and doing crap that not even Daredevil could get away with. I dunno, I just would like to see an efficient, empowered, bad ass Cyke again without having to look at Millar's ULTIMATE X-MEN launch. I do have high hopes for Whedon's next arc. Just a shame this one felt so useless and filler-ish. It would have been tighter with at least one less issue.

As for "X-Men go to Space, take 1,990,668,877", it does get hard to use that against him when Brubaker's doing that too right now, and they likely won't be the last by the time 2007 is out. Sheesh. The X-Men now have gone into space more often than Luke Skywalker...and you can count the novels.

I hadn't noticed the continity flub from ASM and CW #5 due to the length of time, but that is a rather glaring one. I suppose you could argue that Iron Man told Spidey one thing one moment and then a few seconds later, told him another. The last panel of ASM had Iron Man & Spidey grappling and in CW #5, they were paced apart. But, that arguement just makes little sense because then, at best, Iron Man comes across as someone who's word can't be taken for anything, which wouldn't convince Spidey to abandon his course anyway. It's telling that after every issue, Millar and/or Bevroot have to go on Newsarama to "explain stuff". Dudes, really good and well planned stories speak for themselves. Does anyone need a roadmap to each issue of ANNIHILATION? And yes, the fact that the issue treated as "shocks" events we knew were coming for months due to cover leaks was a big stumbling block. But it still beats the average issue of HOM.

 

[GNR]

i still think that continuity glitch in ASM and CW is JMS' fault

this was all written before the tie-ins,the story was all laid out and given to the writers to tie in as they please

 

[hippy fascist]

Ok, so I don't normaly post reviews here but this civil war issue has really torn opinion so I think I'll throw in my thoughts

Civil War #5

I've gotta say that while it has it's down points, I liked it. I think the punisher thing was rushed and given away by marvel in a kind of pointless way but...I think it's perfectly natural that he'd go anti reg. He used to be in the army but know he's about justice rather than the law. He's about catching/killing the bad guys and making them pay, not due process. Not only that but he has to operate "off the grid" to o what he does. Registration is just going to put even more people on his tail that are even better equiped to take him out. Finally, as he said their hiring murderers to enforce this law. Frank doesn't see what he does as murder s his moral compass is intact on that one.

It's difficult to judge this issue purely on it's own merits as no matter how hard you try the delays do effect the enjoyment of it. There's no momentum going in that we had with the previous books for one thing. Also, now was the time when momentum was needed the most. The nature of a 7 issue crossover is that 1-3 build to a big climax in the middle to wet the readers apetite (the death of goliath/cloned thor reveal) and then it settles back down to building back towards the big finish. To use a war movie metaphor, this is the planning stage for the big raid. Issue 6 will provide the build up in terms of the sides setting their pieces in place, and will cut off just short of the final climactic battle, which will naturally take place in issue 7. Sitting round watching people deal with the aftermath of the events of issue four is always going to be a difficult sell on a book that has completely screwed up it's pacing like civil war has, but it did do what it was supposed to. We're starting to see the final sides lining up with ben out of the picture and sue and johnny lining up on the pro-regs. We see those last few people switching sides before battle lines are drawn and things get piled on the anti-regs to make it seem like they have no hope (done reasonably well, apart from cap having his arm in a sling however which is a blantant attempt to reflect the anti-reg's cause in cap's battered body, which is a ****ty cop out). The daredevil thing centres our attention on 42 for next issue and I still maintain that it's cap in that suit not danny/frank (the scene in thunderbolts with the key was way too obverblown if it doesn't mean anything). The main other reason for this is that cap is a military man from an era with tanks and two massed armys. He is a natural leader for the army that will doubtlessly be coming out of 42 in issue #6-7. The punisher however is trained in guerilla warfare. This guy is a natural leader for the anti-regs campaign, knowing how to spot traps/find traitors (tigra). I think it's going to be a major shift of focus onto spidey and frank on the outside while cap's busy in the negative zone (this would also mean iron fist could go back to his old persona without blowing matt's cover). The final thing that convinces me is the way he says Judas. Neither danny or frank have ever been close enough to tony to feel this way, that is about his betrayal of cap, these two have always been tight and...i just really think it's cap in that outfit.(Feel free to mock hysterically come december)

Anyway, for what it is, it does it's job well. It's significantly more interesting than last weeks but when everything in it is simply building towards the next issue it can become a little frustrating (as with lost). But, fingers crossed, I still think this is going to end well

7.8/10

 

[yenaled]

Being one of those people that only actually read Civil War because the Marvel titles I pick up aren't crossing over with the event, I see to get the feeling that not much happens in the core title and all the character changing interesting stuff, and storyline driving plots take place outside of it. Sometimes it feels like the main book is just a highlight reel, like a summary of events it seems too jarring and skips around loads.

It's like in the last issue, for me Spider-Man suddenly changes sides. I think maybe once before he said something like "oh god this is bad" when Goliath died but... that's it. Punisher as well "I've been protecting your backs in a ski-mask the last few weeks" (something to that effect) Has he? He showed up in about two panels in the background in the last issue... I didn't see him protecting anyone or doing anything. Reed kind of gets a little bit upset, but I'm not really convinced of it. Captain America gets a nice new base out of nowhere.

One thing I do kind of like the idea of is the anti-registration heroes taking up new secret identities, except they aren't really living a new identity because they just hide in alleys with a wig on and then go to Captain Americas HQ.

On the same hand; has anything happened in the book which we didn't know about before hand?

Every time I read Civil War it feels like I'm reading something that I've seen a film of or read a book about before. It doesn't feel surprising or anything and I don't even go looking for spoilers.

 

[hippy fascist]

Being one of those people that only actually read Civil War because the Marvel titles I pick up aren't crossing over with the event, I see to get the feeling that not much happens in the core title and all the character changing interesting stuff, and storyline driving plots take place outside of it. Sometimes it feels like the main book is just a highlight reel, like a summary of events it seems too jarring and skips around loads.

It's like in the last issue, for me Spider-Man suddenly changes sides. I think maybe once before he said something like "oh god this is bad" when Goliath died but... that's it. Punisher as well "I've been protecting your backs in a ski-mask the last few weeks" (something to that effect) Has he? He showed up in about two panels in the background in the last issue... I didn't see him protecting anyone or doing anything. Reed kind of gets a little bit upset, but I'm not really convinced of it. Captain America gets a nice new base out of nowhere.

One thing I do kind of like the idea of is the anti-registration heroes taking up new secret identities, except they aren't really living a new identity because they just hide in alleys with a wig on and then go to Captain Americas HQ.

On the same hand; has anything happened in the book which we didn't know about before hand?

Every time I read Civil War it feels like I'm reading something that I've seen a film of or read a book about before. It doesn't feel surprising or anything and I don't even go looking for spoilers.

Despite what marvel say i think their are some tie ins you ned to read to get the story, ASM, F4, New Avengers and Iron Man have been the only vitals ones as far as I'm concerned atthe moment. Others have been good but with out these you miss the human angle and all you get is miller and his 80's action hero jingoism and explosions.

To be honest, the only way the pro-regs would have ever had a chance of getting their point across rather than simply being ghouls is if Iron Man's tie in's had run from the start for seven issues rather than just picking up halfway through when it's too late to sway people. Personally I think a book focussed on shield would have been great as we could see what their goals are with this. Maria Hill: Director Of Shield,a civil war tie-in would, for my mind been kinda cool.

 

[BrianWilly]

I think, like Scott said (is he even "Cyclops" anymore?), the bullets were more to prove a point. If the Hellfire Club were really there, he really would have shot a bunch of people and killed them, and their bodies would still be bleeding on the ground. But he didn't; as soon as he shot them, they just reform into someone else. If Scott wasn't fooled, there's only so much illusion that Emma can still maintain, especially in the minds of more than one person, 'cause remember; at the end of the day, all of these illusions were not caused by Cassandra Nova at all, but by Emma. And Emma is not nearly as powerful as most other telepaths we know like Xavier or Jean. And she was subconsciously fighting Cassandra every step of the way.

All he's done is make Cyclops into his captain figure from SERINITY, right down to the facial stubble.

What? Whedon make Scott more like Mal?? Don't be silly.

...

...what?