Bought // Thought November 05 2008

[Anubis]

He had an aneurysm while trying to decide and he went to hell anyway because the Jews were right.

 

[Darthphere]

Yes, kill yourself.

Hahaha, no, you misunderstood, I was suggesting it, for yourself and your horrible opinions on comics.

 

[Doc Destruction]

If I had a dollar for every time someone suggested that Blader take his own life...

I'd have like 4 bucks.

 

[Darthphere]

If I had a dollar for every time someone suggested that Blader take his own life...

I'd have like 4 bucks.

All 4 times it was me wasn't it?

 

[random_havoc]

Eh, I think the overall story isn't bad at all. Retconning's part of the nature of comics, so if it's done, I can only hope it's done as well as Johns did it in "Ignition." He took the basic core of the retcon he was doing--resetting Wally so his identity is secret again--and crafted a pretty solid, emotionally charged story out of it. But different strokes, I guess.

Oh how I disagree with that bolded statement.
They've just done it so much you've gotten used to it. It's like if someone slapped you in the face enough times close enough together it would start hurting less eventually as you numbed to the pain.
Just because they're so lazy that they do it over and over rather than just doing decent writing with what they have doesn't make it okay.

It's like people who just accept the inconsistencies. Just cuz they do it all the time, doesn't make it more acceptable nor should we, as readers, be less insulted each time they do it.

 

[Blader5489]

Hahaha, no, you misunderstood, I was suggesting it, for yourself and your horrible opinions on comics.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were suggesting you were going to kill yourself. Just wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.

 

[Doc Destruction]

All 4 times it was me wasn't it?

I think Shinlye and I were two of them.

 

[fifthfiend]

Just to throw in a thing re: the ongoing discussion about Ignition, I guess I'd say one major difference between that and OMD is it actually dealt with the consequences of the mindwipe and sort of generally portrayed it as a hasty action that might not have been the smartest thing Wally ever did and ended up making things pretty painful for a good while for the people affected.

Also the other major difference is it was just, straightforwardly, a mindwipe. Not a mindwipe plus a history rewrite which has no actual consequences for any of the actual history despite it being absurd that it wouldn't plus a whole bunch of random other odds and ends which don't actually have anything to do with anything that were just shoehorned into a timeskip.

I'll go ahead and say that yes, conceputally, mindwiping is by itself basically a silly device. But yeah there's a pretty big difference between one silly device used as the impetus for an overall fairly decent story, and one silly device plus a whole bunch of other completely insulting ******** and random crap used to not actually tell any kind of a story because that would require acknowledging the previous history you're desperately trying to shove down a hole but instead to just jump into a totally disconnected new status quo.

 

[Darthphere]

Oh how I disagree with that bolded statement.
They've just done it so much you've gotten used to it. It's like if someone slapped you in the face enough times close enough together it would start hurting less eventually as you numbed to the pain.
Just because they're so lazy that they do it over and over rather than just doing decent writing with what they have doesn't make it okay.

It's like people who just accept the inconsistencies. Just cuz they do it all the time, doesn't make it more acceptable nor should we, as readers, be less insulted each time they do it.

You said you disagree but everything you said supports his comment. Retconning is part of the nature of comics, and has been for the last 30 years.

 

[Themanofbat]

Also the other major difference is it was just, straightforwardly, a mindwipe. Not a mindwipe plus a history rewrite which has no actual consequences for any of the actual history despite it being absurd that it wouldn't plus a whole bunch of random other odds and ends which don't actually have anything to do with anything that were just shoehorned into a timeskip.

Well, again, I have to point out the fact that I thought OMD sucked major league donkey balls.

Now... having said that, as I see it now, the deal with Mephisto was to simply eliminate the marriage from existance, so all comics that occured post-marriage still occured as they were (I know, I know, there are a few moments that really shine on the "married" aspect, like the Black Cat freaking out at MJ, but if I can overlook things like Norman Osborn dying at the end of ASM #122, then I could care less what the Black Cat did for 3 pages).

As we are now seeing in ASM is the fact that the "mindwipe" was a result of something Peter did (with the aid of someone else... probably Loki), and not only that, but it appears that Peter also put some kind of spell to make people not even think/suggest that he is Spider-Man, as evidenced in the Kraven's daughter arc and in New Ways to Die...

And as far as the things that have occcured during said timeskip, well next month, Harry's unexplained return is supposed to be explained, as I'm sure a few other inconsistencies (sic) that will be explained in upcoming months...

So... while OMD was terrible, the outcome that was BND and the stories from thereonin have not been as terrible as one could imagine, and I, for one, who is a pretty good connaisseur of Marvel's history and continuity, is pretty happy that things are going to get explained, regardless at how "lame" some of these explanation "might" be.

 

[random_havoc]

You said you disagree but everything you said supports his comment. Retconning is part of the nature of comics, and has been for the last 30 years.

I suppose that depends on how we're using the term "nature" then. If we're using it as something is naturally part of it and basically a necessity (as I usually take the term) I would say it is most certainly NOT the nature of comics.
I would say that retconning is a very UNNATURAL aspect to almost any story and is pretty much always lazy work on a writers part.

If we call it part of the nature of comics simply because so many hacks have used it that it is sadly relatively common, then I'd have to say it is.