Bought/Thought July 16th, 2008

[Red]

I find that unlikely.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm pretty sure Brubaker's said the Red Skull storyline is ending in #42.

 

[venom892]

I haven't read my copy of #40 yet but for some reason #42 seems too soon to end.I thought for sure they'd go with a double sized #50.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He just said the Red Skull story was ending at #42. I think he's saving #50 for Steve's return, which would give him 8 issues to build up to that without the Red Skull's secret plots going on in the background.

 

[Red]

I just can't see him wrapping up 4 years of plot in 2 more issues.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I can. The public just needs to get a whiff of all that crazy oozing off the Grand Director and it'll be the beginning of the end. Discredit the fake Cap, which in turn discredits Gordon because of the fake Cap's endorsement, and then Bucky and Sam can expose the Nazi trinity behind it all. I could see that happening in two issues.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Brubaker is a good enough writer to make it work in a couple of issues.

 

[Darthphere]

Yet, considering the pace he has established on this book, it's not really realistic to think that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The pace speeds up and slows down, really. I think he's built up to this point for a bit too long, but two issues is still enough time for the Red Skull, at least, to fall. Maybe he'll spend the 8 issues before #50 dismantling the Skull's damage to the US economy and political scene or something.

 

[kainedamo]

So few of you read The Punisher.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Ennis just leave the book? The number's only gonna go down.

 

[kainedamo]

He's still got a couple of issues left. The new issue I picked up today is great. I love the exerts from the novel.

 

[Dread]

You know as much as I like Captain America I really wish Bru would finish Sharons sub-plot, its becoming really frustrating. It's like one step forward and then two steps back every issue.

I admit this subplot is moving slowly. Sharon's been the Red Skull's captive for, what, about a year now since Fautus used her to finish off Steve? Every escape attempt ends in recapture. I do agree that it is a bit long in the tooth, but I guess when you like a book, sometimes the logical niggles get overlooked. "Playing favorites" isn't logical or fair, but everyone does it sometimes.

There's only two issues left of this whole story, so you'll get your ending soon enough.

I find that unlikely.

I'm pretty sure Brubaker's said the Red Skull storyline is ending in #42.

I haven't read my copy of #40 yet but for some reason #42 seems too soon to end.I thought for sure they'd go with a double sized #50.

He just said the Red Skull story was ending at #42. I think he's saving #50 for Steve's return, which would give him 8 issues to build up to that without the Red Skull's secret plots going on in the background.

I just can't see him wrapping up 4 years of plot in 2 more issues.

I can. The public just needs to get a whiff of all that crazy oozing off the Grand Director and it'll be the beginning of the end. Discredit the fake Cap, which in turn discredits Gordon because of the fake Cap's endorsement, and then Bucky and Sam can expose the Nazi trinity behind it all. I could see that happening in two issues.

Yet, considering the pace he has established on this book, it's not really realistic to think that.

I figured I would jump into this conversation. I have heard that Brubaker wants to "wrap up the Red Skull plot" by issue #42. I am a bit wary of that like some of you are; the pace on CA can quicken and slow, but I agree that it seems unrealistic or optimistic for a story that has been running for over 3 years to be wrapped up in 44 pages. I mean, the last issue of the Whedon/Cassaday run on AXM had to wrap up a far less complicated, 2-year alien story, and even THAT needed extra pages to do it right. Of course, I wouldn't mind paying an extra buck for 5-10 more pages or so for issue #41 or #42 to wrap up the story.

I don't think Brubaker is lying; of course, just because the Red Skull's scheme falls apart, doesn't mean that he and all his allies are defeated. He could do the Ernest Blofeld thing and flee from a sinking ship, leaving his minions to take the fall. Brubaker also is a writer who enjoys preludes and epilogues; while perhaps a CLIMAX to the Red Skull story happens in #42, the fall-out from it may take several more issues. If not all 8 up to #50.

I do hope that Brubaker wraps up his run in a satisfying way before it inevitable ends, rather than leaving things in mid-cliffhanger like, say, Bendis on DAREDEVIL. While that worked on DD, it may not work for every franchise or incoming writer. Still, is it set in stone that Steve Rogers returns in issue #50? I haven't missed him much because Bucky has really stepped up. Sales seem to be maintaining higher levels with Buck in charge rather than Steve. From pure sales perspectives, I wouldn't be too quick to undo the death at this stage. Especially since, well, Steve is supposed to be more human level than Superman. "He was in a really deep coma" wouldn't wash. Still, it is Bru's show and I have faith in the direction. He's earned it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nothing's set in stone, I just figured it was likely that Brubaker would use the 50th issue to bring Steve back, since he killed him off in #25. Steve may not come back for another five or ten years for all I know.

 

[Dread]

Nothing's set in stone, I just figured it was likely that Brubaker would use the 50th issue to bring Steve back, since he killed him off in #25. Steve may not come back for another five or ten years for all I know.

At least Joe Q could brag that Marvel had the guts to keep Steve Rogers dead longer than DC kept Superman dead. Granted, then Dan DiDio would celebrate the 11th year of Lois & Clark marriage without one demonic annulment, and a Newsarama tizzy would ensue.

I'm not saying I would be opposed to Steve returning; most realists see it as inevitable, especially in an age where Norman Osborn can return after 20 years, or Bucky after 40. But Brubaker's pulled off something here that Marvel rarely does; a successful legacy hero taking up the mantle from the original; it works, got media attention, and is popular. I wouldn't be so quick to give that back after only two years if I were Brubaker. Bucky is Cap's Wally West, if that makes sense. Wouldn't it have stunk if Barry had simply returned in, say, 1988-1989? Brubaker obviously relates to Bucky, and it shows. Part of me thinks he may not be so quick to return him to second banada status so quick. And that he shouldn't. But that's all opinion, natch. I am sure there are plenty of "Hung-er for Steve R!" fans out there.

 

[CaptainCanada]

He said he had two years of Steve-less stories plotted back around the start of this, so most people have been guessing that #50 is the ballpark period when the story of his return should at least start. Whether that's still the case or if plans have grown since then, I don't know. Personally, I could do with a few more Bucky-as-Cap stories before we get around to bringing Steve back; there feels like there's a lot more to do with him.

 

[fifthfiend]

Incredible Hercules

Super-good. It does kind of seem like Skrullpuppy went to a lot of trouble just to throw their ship onto the rocks; he couldn't have come up with any more clever way to sabotage the team from the inside? Oh well. Herc gets to explain his philosophy of leadership, Snowbird gets a nice badass moment, and the God Eater gets some eating done. Seeing the Skrull gods keeping their captured pantheons around as grunt labor was pretty cool.

Batgirl

Wow, what an awful comic. Like if this was a comic about some random character I'd never heard anything about before I would just be like wow this is a badly written cliche of a basically lousy comic book. But instead it's about Batgirl making it an utterly mischaracterized non sequitur of a badly written cliche of a basically lousy comic book. I like the way Beechen continually belabors plot points that would be totally uninteresting even if they didn't bear no resemblence to what actually occurred.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I was surprised at how pathetic that Skrullby the wonder-pup was too, but then it occurred to me that it's one lone, mortal Skrull against a ship full of gods. He was dumb nonetheless (should've played on the gods' mistrust and gotten them to fight each other), but I don't think we should've expected much from him in any case. The real fight is coming up next issue with Kly'bn and, possibly, Sl'gur't.

At least Joe Q could brag that Marvel had the guts to keep Steve Rogers dead longer than DC kept Superman dead. Granted, then Dan DiDio would celebrate the 11th year of Lois & Clark marriage without one demonic annulment, and a Newsarama tizzy would ensue.

I'm not saying I would be opposed to Steve returning; most realists see it as inevitable, especially in an age where Norman Osborn can return after 20 years, or Bucky after 40. But Brubaker's pulled off something here that Marvel rarely does; a successful legacy hero taking up the mantle from the original; it works, got media attention, and is popular. I wouldn't be so quick to give that back after only two years if I were Brubaker. Bucky is Cap's Wally West, if that makes sense. Wouldn't it have stunk if Barry had simply returned in, say, 1988-1989? Brubaker obviously relates to Bucky, and it shows. Part of me thinks he may not be so quick to return him to second banada status so quick. And that he shouldn't. But that's all opinion, natch. I am sure there are plenty of "Hung-er for Steve R!" fans out there.

Eh, Bucky still doesn't really strike me as Captain America. I doubt he ever will. I find the idea of using the Captain America legacy as a means of Bucky's personal redemption more interesting, and the logical conclusion to that is for Steve to come back once that's done.

 

[fifthfiend]

I was surprised at how pathetic that Skrullby the wonder-pup was too, but then it occurred to me that it's one lone, mortal Skrull against a ship full of gods. He was dumb nonetheless (should've played on the gods' mistrust and gotten them to fight each other), but I don't think we should've expected much from him in any case. The real fight is coming up next issue with Kly'bn and, possibly, Sl'gur't.

Yeah, the situation was set up so beautifully for that kind of thing, with Herc not trusting half his crew and nobody too confident about Herc's leadership and then you've got this smartmouthed teenager running around thinking he knows everything; it shouldn't have been any kind of trouble for him to trick the gods into wrecking their own ship. And then Amadeus or somebody works out that the pup is actually a Skrull and Herc kills him and everyone feels bad and learns a lesson.

Still though I can see where Pak might have wanted to just skip all that and get to the point where his team fights the half-living avatars of a thousand subjugated pantheons. It's a choice I can respect.

 

[Brainiac 8]

At least Joe Q could brag that Marvel had the guts to keep Steve Rogers dead longer than DC kept Superman dead. Granted, then Dan DiDio would celebrate the 11th year of Lois & Clark marriage without one demonic annulment, and a Newsarama tizzy would ensue.

I'm not saying I would be opposed to Steve returning; most realists see it as inevitable, especially in an age where Norman Osborn can return after 20 years, or Bucky after 40. But Brubaker's pulled off something here that Marvel rarely does; a successful legacy hero taking up the mantle from the original; it works, got media attention, and is popular. I wouldn't be so quick to give that back after only two years if I were Brubaker. Bucky is Cap's Wally West, if that makes sense. Wouldn't it have stunk if Barry had simply returned in, say, 1988-1989? Brubaker obviously relates to Bucky, and it shows. Part of me thinks he may not be so quick to return him to second banada status so quick. And that he shouldn't. But that's all opinion, natch. I am sure there are plenty of "Hung-er for Steve R!" fans out there.

While the death of Superman was good for sales, it wasn't handled nearly as well as the death of Cap and the steping up of Bucky.

I liken this to the Flash comics that had Bart take over the mantle of Flash. Brubaker is writing Bucky much better, but by the time the Flash series ended I didn't miss the past Flashes so much because I had grown to love Bart in the suit.

Unfortunately DC decided to off him, which ticked me off to no end.

Bucky can stay in the Cap suit for several more years for all I care as long as the writing stays the quality it is.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, the situation was set up so beautifully for that kind of thing, with Herc not trusting half his crew and nobody too confident about Herc's leadership and then you've got this smartmouthed teenager running around thinking he knows everything; it shouldn't have been any kind of trouble for him to trick the gods into wrecking their own ship. And then Amadeus or somebody works out that the pup is actually a Skrull and Herc kills him and everyone feels bad and learns a lesson.

Still though I can see where Pak might have wanted to just skip all that and get to the point where his team fights the half-living avatars of a thousand subjugated pantheons. It's a choice I can respect.

Yeah, I just chalk it up to Skrullby being a particularly stupid soldier. Like the Gomer Pile of the Skrull zealots. What we got instead of mind games and infighting was so much better.

 

[Blader5489]

So few of you read The Punisher.

I do. Once again, great issue. I have a greater appreciation for the novel portions now that I've read Punisher: Born.

Sad that next month will be Ennis' last; his Punisher MAX is probably one of my favorite comic books of all time.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Corp, did you read the latest Flash? Interesting Zoom/Inertia twist at the end. Dying to see how this plays out.

 

[Dread]

He said he had two years of Steve-less stories plotted back around the start of this, so most people have been guessing that #50 is the ballpark period when the story of his return should at least start. Whether that's still the case or if plans have grown since then, I don't know. Personally, I could do with a few more Bucky-as-Cap stories before we get around to bringing Steve back; there feels like there's a lot more to do with him.

I agree. Brubaker may have only had 2 years of Bucky-as-Cap stories back whenever he did that interview, but time has passed since. It just seems like a major opportunity to throw away without serious consideration.

Eh, Bucky still doesn't really strike me as Captain America. I doubt he ever will. I find the idea of using the Captain America legacy as a means of Bucky's personal redemption more interesting, and the logical conclusion to that is for Steve to come back once that's done.

But then what happens to Bucky? If he goes back to being a side-kick, that seems like a step backwards. He isn't the Winter Soldier anymore and wouldn't use that name. I suppose he could claim to be a new Nomad, but this seems more natural. Again, I see it as if Wally West spent two years "growing up" as the Flash and then in 1988 DC decided, "Well, let's bring Barry back and Wally can, uh, become Fast-Man or something". Legacy heroes are cool. Cap's death was handled amazingly well. Bucky's not perfect in the role but that is kind of the point. It combines the best things. No one would allow a "young Turk" off the street to be Cap. No one for a second believed John Walker in that role. But Bucky has the legacy, AND the role of an upstart. It isn't a balance that can easily be replicated. Captain America is one of the only superhero franchises that Marvel has that can, and has, operated as a legacy. Bucky's got buzz. Lord knows if I was an editor, I wouldn't be quick to boot James from the mask quite yet, considering the sales are up about 10-25% even without tie-in's from where they were before #25.

Besides, the idea of no one ever being able to be a Captain America but Steve Rogers reasonates with fans, but it is un-American. What is the mask, like a monarch title? Only Steven Rogers Jr. inside Sharon's womb would be allowed to have it? If Bucky isn't worthy at this stage, who is?

I'm just saying that idea of tossing away what has been an excellently handled, and popular, transfer-of-shield in this title shouldn't be undone simply to get The Big Three back in the Avengers. If Brubaker has planned to revive Steve before he departs, I hope this is extremely well thought out, and is his own decision.

Granted, Steve could "get better" from death, could see Bucky in the role and decide to go "see America" and allow Bucky to have the mask, at least on loan, for a while. Of course, that would mean 2 months after Brubaker leaves the title, Steve would be back in the saddle and Bucky would be left to guest appearances.

While the death of Superman was good for sales, it wasn't handled nearly as well as the death of Cap and the steping up of Bucky.

I liken this to the Flash comics that had Bart take over the mantle of Flash. Brubaker is writing Bucky much better, but by the time the Flash series ended I didn't miss the past Flashes so much because I had grown to love Bart in the suit.

Unfortunately DC decided to off him, which ticked me off to no end.

Bucky can stay in the Cap suit for several more years for all I care as long as the writing stays the quality it is.

I didn't think anyone was a fan of the Bart Allen Flash; I heard it was handled very poorly and ended up as a waste of a death.

I do agree that Cap's death has been handled better than Superman's in every way. Plus, when Superman died, there wasn't as much of an Internet as there is now, so some have argued that Cap garnered MORE media attention. Marvel & Brubaker have handled the ball better, with Brubaker providing a solid story more than a gimmick, which is why sales are still strong for CA even over a year later.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Bucky could remain as Captain America for all I care. It's not the mantle I really care about. It's Steve Rogers. He's just too good a character to leave in the ground. Let Steve go back to Nomad or whatever. Iron Man's got two titles right now; why can't Steve and Bucky each have their own?

Corp, did you read the latest Flash? Interesting Zoom/Inertia twist at the end. Dying to see how this plays out.

By "latest Flash," I assume you mean Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge, right? Inertia and Zoom weren't in this week's Flash issue. But I read both and yes, Rogues Revenge was awesome. Bit of a flimsy explanation for Bart's death ("it was an accident!") but I've missed the Rogues so much in all the confusion in The Flash that I didn't mind too much. They've transcended the villain role and become more a set of antagonistic supporters, and it was nice to see things from their perspective. I like that the Pied Piper is being set up as the "hero" (if anyone can be called that) in this story, too. No Flash, just the Rogues sorting out their own mess. I'm sure Wally or, more likely, Barry (you know Johns won't be able to resist playing with that particular Silver Age toy now that he's back) will show up at some point, but I like how contained within the Rogues' own ranks it is so far. It gives you the sense that this isn't a traditional heroes and villains, good and bad story--this is about a code the Rogues live by and the consequences and repercussions of breaking it. I'm really looking forward to the next issue.