Bought/Thought July 16th, 2008

[hippie_hunter]

After reading Rogue's Revenge, all I have to say is this:

Final Crisis tie-ins >>> Secret Invasion tie-ins

 

[iloveclones]

That'd be cool. Steve would definitely piss off all the right people as Director of SHIELD.

The more I think about it, the more I like it. You got Bru's number?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish.

After reading Rogue's Revenge, all I have to say is this:

Final Crisis tie-ins >>> Secret Invasion tie-ins

I wouldn't go that far. Rogues' Revenge and Requiem were both good, but the awesome SI tie-ins still outnumber them.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I wish.

I wouldn't go that far. Rogues' Revenge and Requiem were both good, but the awesome SI tie-ins still outnumber them.

The Secret Invasion tie-ins are good. I'm really liking Front Line because that ***** Sally Floyd is so far nowhere near it. Ms. Marvel, Captain Britain, Runaways & Young Avengers, X-Factor (horrendous art aside) and Fantastic Four are pretty good. The Incredible Hercules and Avengers: The Initiative are great. However, I'm finding the Mighty and New Avengers tie-ins to be rather annoying now. I want to read more about the Avengers in the Secret Invasion, not how Elektra and Hank Pym got replaced and the stuff that occurred before the Skrull invasion.

But I'm finding Rogue's Revenge and Requiem downright phenomenal. PHENOMENAL

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd actually love to read more about the stuff the Skrulls did leading up to the invasion. That was a great issue of New Avengers.

I'd say Rogues' Revenge is better than any one of Secret Invasion's tie-ins, but that's before the SI: Thor mini starts, so I may amend that later. Requiem was good, but I wouldn't call it phenomenal. It made the best of a bad situation. It's probably about even with Avengers: The Initiative tie-in for me.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'd actually love to read more about the stuff the Skrulls did leading up to the invasion. That was a great issue of New Avengers.

They should have done that stuff in a mini IMO. Plus Pym got taken down like a perverted idiot.

I'd say Rogues' Revenge is better than any one of Secret Invasion's tie-ins, but that's before the SI: Thor mini starts, so I may amend that later. Requiem was good, but I wouldn't call it phenomenal. It made the best of a bad situation. It's probably about even with Avengers: The Initiative tie-in for me.

But Batman had a Choco .

And J'onn went down like a badass as well.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that was nice. I'm glad someone at DC realized what a crime it would've been to leave the glossed-over death scene in Final Crisis as the only published material featuring J'onn's death. I like that the Rogues basically laughed at Libra for, in their view, committing suicide-by-hero after they heard about it, too.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I like that the Rogues basically laughed at Libra for, in their view, committing suicide-by-hero after they heard about it, too.

Best scene in the book IMO.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

My favorite part was when Snart heard about Inertia being free and he pulls his hood back up, takes out his gun, and tells the Rogues they're gonna break their no-killing rule "one more time" before they retire. I love that honor-among-thieves aspect to the Rogues.

 

[SouLeSS]

Yeah, I never was a big fan of the Flash Rogues, but after just the one issue of Rogues Revenge, I'm hooked.

 

[Dread]

Or a de-powered Steve could be the next Director of SHIELD. (And to be clear, that would not be a good fit. The spy business is not a good place for a person with the moral terpitude of Steve. But that kind of conflict could be cool for a while. And it would bring him into contact/conflict with all of the MU.)

That'd be cool. Steve would definitely piss off all the right people as Director of SHIELD.

That's SO not happening. Soon as Iron Man eventually leaves, Nick Fury will get his old chair back. "Perennial Status Quo" and so on, is a coined term for a reason.

The idea of an "old man Rogers" acting as a mentor does reek a bit of BATMAN BEYOND, but really, there've been countless stories of former old heroes mentoring into retirement. It COULD work. Not saying I am the biggest fan of the idea. But it could work.

The thing is, though, that the Red Skull is somewhat of an awkward villain. He really has no motive besides being evil and a Nazi; he would even say he's gone beyond fascism and just is into anarchy, akin to the Joker. Icing Steve after all these years finally helped elevate him to major league. A villain has to succeed at something to up the nasty meter. Red Skull was always A-List, but, actually killing Steve (or any hero really) helps greatly, making a bad ass villain even more bad ass. I mean, Ultron had to go into space to finally kill an Avenger, but he finally did after 35 years (Moondragon). Yeah, Steve's death was a tragedy, but the dilemma is that if you publish so many issues mourning a death, it becomes moot when the title character basically sits up and goes, "I'm back". That was Superman's dilemma. In a way Colossus didn't have to deal with that because there was only, like, about 1 issue mourning him, and it was mostly Kitty Pryde. Not only have many issues of CA mourned Cap's loss, but Marvel published their "FIVE STAGES OF EMO" mini about it (FALLEN SON I think it was called). It was Loeb's best received Marvel work without Tim Sale. Again, I wouldn't be so quick to undo all that.

It may be inevitable, but does it have to happen so soon?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes. I don't understand this resistance to the idea of Steve Rogers coming back. He's one of the best heroes in Marvel's stable. The things being done in his absence are great, yes, but does anyone really believe we'll continue to see it handled so well whenever Brubaker decides to leave? We all know evolution in comics is illusory at best. I'd much rather see Brubaker bring Steve back as the logical, cohesive end to his storyline than have other writers struggle with Bucky before Steve is ultimately brought back--probably much more clumsily--by some other writer anyway. Quit fooling yourselves into believing this story is some long-lasting change in the making and enjoy it for what it is: an exciting temporary shift in the status quo. The Red Skull, Steve, and probably even Sharon will all be back to their normal status quos in a while, and the only long-lasting change that's likely to come from this run is that Bucky's probably going to stick around.

 

[Dread]

Yes. I don't understand this resistance to the idea of Steve Rogers coming back. He's one of the best heroes in Marvel's stable. The things being done in his absence are great, yes, but does anyone really believe we'll continue to see it handled so well whenever Brubaker decides to leave? We all know evolution in comics is illusory at best. I'd much rather see Brubaker bring Steve back as the logical, cohesive end to his storyline than have other writers struggle with Bucky before Steve is ultimately brought back--probably much more clumsily--by some other writer anyway. Quit fooling yourselves into believing this story is some long-lasting change in the making and enjoy it for what it is: an exciting temporary shift in the status quo. The Red Skull, Steve, and probably even Sharon will all be back to their normal status quos in a while, and the only long-lasting change that's likely to come from this run is that Bucky's probably going to stick around.

But why does evolution have to be illusory? Again, this is akin to in 1988 the people at DC went, "Y'know, Barry Allen launched the Silver Age of comics after the SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT era. Wally was fun for a while but it's time to get him back into New Teen Titans and Barry into the saddle." And then imagine, at least according to legend, all the good Flash comics that never, ever, would have happened.

Right now, I see Bucky as Marvel's Wally West opportunity. You have no idea, or maybe you do, how rare it is to not only off a title hero, but to replace him with a logical successor and not only for it to be an amazing story, handled amazingly well, but has the popular will of the majority of the fans. CA comics are selling like they never have in ages, even without a crossover tie-in. The wind's at Buck's back right now.

Maybe people theorize that what helped lead to the "crash" of 1994's comic market was the promotion of the DEATH OF SUPERMAN, which was build up and overexposed as this everlasting thing. It caught the attention of old fans and new fans alike. Then, after a year, DC busted out the "just kidding" thing. Maybe pros feel this disenfranchised quite a lot of casual readers, helping explain some of the massive sales dips. Yeah, there was overpromotion, gimmicks, and so on. But this didn't help. This helped breed the cynicism that you see about the biz, and in yours truly, where absolutely nothing any comic EIC says is taken seriously, no promotion is believed, and no status-quo shattering story, good or bad, is believed. We just shrug and count the months until things go back to "Neverland", timeless Archie formula. Even Newsarama does this with their "Cap is Still Dead" titles to CA articles.

Joe Q's Marvel talks a big game about meaning what they do. He insists it isn't just talk, but action. He's reversed course on "dead means dead" and lord knows how many other things. If he ever wants to be taken seriously, he has to stick to a decision, especially one that worked out for him. After all, Brubaker wouldn't have been able to do all this if Joe Q said "No".

The media bent over backwards to report CW #2 and Spidey's unmasking, and then the demonic annulment, but thankfully they were too dumb to put both together and realize OMD #4 basically made CW #2 essentially worthless. I didn't mind that because it was a huge OOC moment. But this isn't.

The fact that nothing ever lasts in the industry probably costs it from every gaining massive influxes of new fans. The stuff that attracts new people for any given period is undone and they lose interest. Look at how the X-Books dipped for a while when everyone was undoing the Top 10 selling Morrison run brick by brick. Readers got the hint. Nothing they read matters. People SCOFF at mainstream comics because of this, and NOT ONE SOUL at these companies seems to get that. Not one. DC, at least in the past, stuck to some of it's ballsier decisions. Barry Allen stayed dead. Barbara Gordon stayed crippled. Dick Grayson stayed Nightwing. Grayson & Starfire stayed broken up (admittedly, I always got annoyed at this since neither found any better lovers since, but whatever). It gave enough of an "illusion" of change that there was positive buzz, if only for a year.

Maybe it is a shame that Marvel always is #1 without any effort. I don't think any editor would risk a dip in CA sales post-Brubaker if they had to actually compete with DC. But, they don't. DC has no new tricks, and Marvel can coast and top them.

Yes, I do know Steve will return, if not under Brubaker, under another writer 2, 3, or even 10 years in the future. But I think James Barnes is worthy of a run at Cap, without everyone counting down the issues before Steve returns and Buck is reduced to a sideline in MU, which is what he will be once Brubaker leaves. The evolution of Bucky from Winter Soldier to Capt. America WAS a steady evolution and character arc. Taking the role of Cap away from him, basically, is like taking Hawkeye from Clint Barton. It makes that entire evolution and development worthless. At some point, Marvel has to stop teasing their fans by undoing any positive innovation in the name of tradition. Out of any runs, this is the one to support for a bit.

Like, do you seriously think Odin won't retake Asgard as soon as JMS leaves? That Thor won't be bumped down to his iconic status eventually, and all his new development stripped away? Because I'd hate to see that. I hate to look back at classic stories in my comic or trade collection, and basically go, "well, now THAT's pointless." Like what used to be my favorite ASM story, "THE DEATH OF GWEN STACY". So much crap has become of that, that the original story hardly has the impact. And as a disturbing trend, I have seen far more recent stories become irrelevant far too soon. Like 2-3 years.

Brubaker can revive Steve and it will probably make sense and be good and all. But that is the first step to making Bucky's reign as Cap obsolete, and at this point I feel that is too soon and a waste of potential. Nothing irks the **** out of me more than wasted potential.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Change doesn't have to be illusory in comics, it just is. Every time. Comics move in cycles because they've gotta keep the characters fresh for readers. I wouldn't be totally averse to Bucky sticking around as Cap and Steve staying dead, but we all know it's never going to happen. And, frankly, it shouldn't. Bucky's a great character in his own right, but just as the point that Brian Braddock is the living spirit of Great Britain was hammered into our heads with his resurrection in Captain Britain and MI-13 #3, Steve Rogers is the spirit of the USA. Bucky will never have the impact of Steve as Cap.

 

[Dread]

Change doesn't have to be illusory in comics, it just is. Every time. Comics move in cycles because they've gotta keep the characters fresh for readers. I wouldn't be totally averse to Bucky sticking around as Cap and Steve staying dead, but we all know it's never going to happen. And, frankly, it shouldn't. Bucky's a great character in his own right, but just as the point that Brian Braddock is the living spirit of Great Britain was hammered into our heads with his resurrection in Captain Britain and MI-13 #3, Steve Rogers is the spirit of the USA. Bucky will never have the impact of Steve as Cap.

I know comics move in cycles, and that is why no new fan has entered the genre in the past decade. Not a single one. The companies appeal to the die-hards from 20-40 years ago who fade away every few years to budget or death. The only hope comic companies have to turnover is, frankly, comic fans raising kids who like comics and won't just turn to manga like their peers. I mean, that's how I became a fan; my mother was one and I'm second generation.

But I hate when moving in cycles takes the momentum out of new ideas, especially new ideas that work out in terms of both sales, the character, and critical acclaim. It's a win-win here and reviving Steve too soon would pretty much make it all worthless posturing. This run should be bigger than that. I mean, anyone who believes if Brubaker allows a revived Steve to walk into the sunset, that the next writer won't have him back within 6 issues is dreaming.

Brian Braddock is magical; supported by omniversal beings like Merlin and Roma. He has come back from the dead via magic more times than Jean Grey. Plus, the idea of one man, and no one else, being the favored son of the country is hardly an issue for Britain, which still technically has a monarchy (even if just for show).

America is supposed to be democratic, that can-do spirit of people supporting each other and power not being centralized. If only one man can ever truly be Captain America, then it hardly seems democratic. That's like saying only George Washington should be President (which they did say, back then. It was HIS CHOICE to leave after 2 terms, a custom only made law in the 50's). The mantle is more than a hero it is supposed to be a symbol. Bucky isn't trying to "be" Steve, but honor his memory and tenure, just like someone else who takes over for someone in a job. That has some appeal, and it is rare to have that kind of appeal in a Marvel hero. Most of them only pass on the mantle for emergencies for less than a few issues. And they aren't supposed to represent America. There has to be a limit to even what Steve Rogers can survive. He isn't backed by magic.

Besides, about the only way I could see someone reviving him without making his death worthless would be if Thor ventured into the Underworld to pull him out or something.

Maybe it is because CA #25 was the best superhero deaths story in a decade or more that I am not so quick to see it reduced to nothing.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

BOUGHT:
ARMY OF DARKNESS #10
BATGIRL #1
BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #9
CAPTAIN AMERICA #40
CASEY BLUE #3
FINAL CRISIS ROGUES REVENGE #1
FOOLKILLER WHITE ANGELS #1
GHOST RIDER #25
IMMORTAL IRON FIST #16
INCREDIBLE HERCULES #117
INCREDIBLE HERCULES #119
IRON MAN #31
JOKER'S ASYLUM POISON IVY
LORDS OF AVALON #3
MARVEL 1985 #3
MARVEL ADVENTURES AVENGERS #26
MIGHTY AVENGERS #16
MOON KNIGHT #20
NEWUNIVERSAL SHOCKFRONT #1
PUNISHER #59
SKY DOLL #3
TANGENT #5
THUNDERBOLTS #121
TRINITY #7
ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #56
X-FACTOR #33
X-FORCE #5

THOUGHT:
BATGIRL #1 - I know very little about Batgirl outside the Outsiders (her series ran before I bought DC regular) but picked this up out of curiosity. It seems like they gave you the whole rundown of her past so new readers could catch up. However, from what I hear a lot of the things present within the story were resolved during her series, so it's not quite accurate. But, so far, I'm becoming inclined to seek out Batgirl backissues and check them out.

BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #9 - Shame Dixon's off the book, 'cause a lot of interesting seeds have been set into place. I'm digging the disfunctional dynamic of the teammates, as well as Batman's ever-knowing presence on all the issues at hand.

CAPTAIN AMERICA #40 - Another good installment with Cap vs. Cap, and kind of an expected ending with Sharon and yet one that doesn't feel the hum drum of other obvious plot points. Brubaker is hitting the ball out of the park with Cap, and I can only see it getting better from here.

CASEY BLUE #3 - An intriguing character and an intriguing book so far. I'm eager to learn the secret behind Casey's blackout killings.

FINAL CRISIS ROGUES REVENGE #1 - The Rogues are looking for a little final redemption before hanging up their criminal ways for good. Interesting premise. My only problem with it so far is the hyper detailed artwork. Cutting back on some of the extra lines within everything for a cleaner look would have been nice, but otherwise a solid issue all around so far. $3.99, though, is a little steep for a book that REALLY has nothing to do with (so far) the event it's supposedly part of. At least Marvel is charging $2.99 for theirs.

FOOLKILLER WHITE ANGELS #1 - Mostly an establishing issue that hopefully will lead into a mini much along the lines of the first, which I liked. I think the thing that had me most excited was the preview for next issue featuring his running into the Punisher. THAT should be interesting. I haven't read the original Foolkiller yet (even though I have most of his comics) but I'm digging this version so far.

MARVEL 1985 #3 - We get a little insight into the dad's past, whose relevance in this issue isn't clear at the moment. Basically, we got more characters crossing over into the "real world" and our heroes are caught in the middle of it all. I like the 1980s movie feel of this book. I'd put it up there with the likes of the Goonies or Monster Squad and other iconic 80s movies of that sort.

MARVEL ADVENTURES AVENGERS #26 - ...What the hell? The quality of this series has really dropped. When it started, they did straight Avengers stories in a kid-friendly fashion. Now, in this issue especially, the characters have been turned into charicatures of themselves. Obviously there was an attempt at humor here, but it falls very short, even for a kid book. Basically, this is how you play down to your audience...something the MA books have avoided until now.

PUNISHER #59 - Another nice addition to Ennis' final arc.

SKY DOLL #3 - This had to be the most confusing issue of the series. A lot goes on and by the end, nothing is really resolved. I found the first two issues interesting, but this one kinda let it end on a bit of a whimper.

TANGENT #5 - Not much happens here except to alert Superman to the existence of New Earth and allow him to plot to what I guess amounts to his conquest of it before they conquer him. So far it's all pretty interesting, especially the hodge podge mix and match of established characters rather than the same characters with different personalities or abilities.

X-FORCE #5 - The darker side of the X-Men. Frankly, I'm not too thrilled with the direction of the X-books lately, so I dunno how I feel about this super bloody ultra violent team. Especially since it resulted in the resurrection of Bastion (less cheapened by the fact he IS a robot but still). And Archangel's back, which is cool 'cause as Angel, he just sucks.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

BATGIRL #1 - I know very little about Batgirl outside the Outsiders (her series ran before I bought DC regular) but picked this up out of curiosity. It seems like they gave you the whole rundown of her past so new readers could catch up. However, from what I hear a lot of the things present within the story were resolved during her series, so it's not quite accurate. But, so far, I'm becoming inclined to seek out Batgirl backissues and check them out.

You'll probably just end up depressing yourself.

 

[imdaly]

At least Joe Q could brag that Marvel had the guts to keep Steve Rogers dead longer than DC kept Superman dead. Granted, then Dan DiDio would celebrate the 11th year of Lois & Clark marriage without one demonic annulment, and a Newsarama tizzy would ensue.

And then Joe Q would retort with the fact that that "demonic annulment" happened in the 21st year of the Peter & MJ marriage, and that 11 years is nothing.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Dread,

I generally agree with what your saying here..But we'll see how much legs bucky has to stand on in the long term.

For all intensive purposes, The John Walker Saga was very similiar to this..very critically acclaimed and well received by mature fans, but the face of comics back then just couldn't handle no Steve Rogers. I would have liked to see Walker in the role for at least 2 more years.

For now I'll say that Bucky as Cap is tied to Bru..and I am not sure if it will ever even get tested, as i think Steve will return in a couple of years, most certainly under Brubaker. I don't mind the concept of Legacy heroes..but even when they work, they create such pointless controversy..Bucky as cap is working about as well as ANYONE could hope, yet there is still the gallery of folks screaming for Steve's return...and probably even a small group who left the book becuase of this (there loss).

Wally West is a good example on one who worked, but DC has countless horrid legacy characters. Marvel has been much more judicious with legacy heroes and they have worked well IMO some of the recent ones such as Quasar, Night Thrasher, Cap have been well done.

But I also wonder if this Bucky stint is working so well simply becuase people know Steve will , in fact, surely return..therfore they see it as little affront. Tough to tell, becuase the story and everything about the book is near perfect. I don't think the John Walker arc had the same "certainty" of a return, and that may have aided fan's anger.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Can Wally West even have been said to work at this point, now that Barry's back? Barry's return, more than anything else, has cemented in my mind the pointlessness of legacy characters. You can add mantle-bearers to a superhero identity, but the guy who is best known for the role will always come back at some point. I don't even see how it's a question of whether Steve will return. He will; we've seen the exact same situation play out time and again with the only difference being the length of time the legacy character is allowed to retain his role as the main protagonist. People who think anything different is going to happen here are just fooling themselves.

 

[roach]

Actually I am seeing this more in tune with Knightfall than Death of Superman. I think we'll see Bucky start to go nutso due to whatever mind stuff was done to him and the pressure of being Captain America. Steve will reclaim the mantle and James Barnes will become the new USAgent or Nomad

 

[THANOSRULES]

Corp,

wally west worked for a LONG time.

He's similiar to genis-vell IMO genis sold books and was a great comic, for like 5 years almost..except wally was never handled as bad towards the end. In fact he was really NEVER handled bad, DC was just STIR crazy about legacy'ing heroes in order to generate some sort of sales buzz.

With wally and Genis you had a good core of folks craving the legacy, just as much as the original.

I'm not looking to DC as some sort of example, and thats mainly my point. I frankly drew the line at Firestorm, even though the comic was pretty underrated. Batgirl, question..? get out of here..

Legacys work..but your right , in that you have to expect at some point the original to return.

Wally west had what like over 15 years as a solid Flash? That was a pretty good run.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually I am seeing this more in tune with Knightfall than Death of Superman. I think we'll see Bucky start to go nutso due to whatever mind stuff was done to him and the pressure of being Captain America. Steve will reclaim the mantle and James Barnes will become the new USAgent or Nomad

Eh, that would be kind of terrible for me. I don't want Bucky to go crazy or evil. He started out crazy and evil when Brubaker reintroduced him. DC's shown us that a circular character arc sucks pretty thoroughly with Jason Todd. No need to see Bucky fall victim to it too, especially since he's actually a good character in the first place, unlike Todd.

 

[Dread]

And then Joe Q would retort with the fact that that "demonic annulment" happened in the 21st year of the Peter & MJ marriage, and that 11 years is nothing.

True.

Dread,

I generally agree with what your saying here..But we'll see how much legs bucky has to stand on in the long term.

For all intensive purposes, The John Walker Saga was very similiar to this..very critically acclaimed and well received by mature fans, but the face of comics back then just couldn't handle no Steve Rogers. I would have liked to see Walker in the role for at least 2 more years.

For now I'll say that Bucky as Cap is tied to Bru..and I am not sure if it will ever even get tested, as i think Steve will return in a couple of years, most certainly under Brubaker. I don't mind the concept of Legacy heroes..but even when they work, they create such pointless controversy..Bucky as cap is working about as well as ANYONE could hope, yet there is still the gallery of folks screaming for Steve's return...and probably even a small group who left the book becuase of this (there loss).

Wally West is a good example on one who worked, but DC has countless horrid legacy characters. Marvel has been much more judicious with legacy heroes and they have worked well IMO some of the recent ones such as Quasar, Night Thrasher, Cap have been well done.

But I also wonder if this Bucky stint is working so well simply becuase people know Steve will , in fact, surely return..therfore they see it as little affront. Tough to tell, becuase the story and everything about the book is near perfect. I don't think the John Walker arc had the same "certainty" of a return, and that may have aided fan's anger.

John Walker was different. Steve Rogers all but quit/was forced out because the people in the government wanted to control him more. They recruited a darker new Cap and even got a villain (Taskmaster) to train him. He was a new character and not as connected to the legacy as Bucky. This is apples and oranges to me. It is like, instead of Barry Allen passing the torch to Wally West, a new character was invented out of the blue. Granted, that worked with Jamie Reyes I guess.

Brubaker has the wind at his back, is all, and I want to see the New Cap thing explored fully before we reverse course. 2 years seems a bit too soon for that to me, especially considering Bru's pacing.

Can Wally West even have been said to work at this point, now that Barry's back? Barry's return, more than anything else, has cemented in my mind the pointlessness of legacy characters. You can add mantle-bearers to a superhero identity, but the guy who is best known for the role will always come back at some point. I don't even see how it's a question of whether Steve will return. He will; we've seen the exact same situation play out time and again with the only difference being the length of time the legacy character is allowed to retain his role as the main protagonist. People who think anything different is going to happen here are just fooling themselves.

Wally West "worked" for 22 years and still has an ongoing title. You have a point about legacy heroes, and yes, I do know that Steve will eventually return. But my point is, that I don't think New Cap has run his course yet and James Barnes should be allowed the chance to become just as iconic in the role as Wally West has to the Flash. Heck, even Barry Allen took over the mantle from Jay Garrick.

Eh, that would be kind of terrible for me. I don't want Bucky to go crazy or evil. He started out crazy and evil when Brubaker reintroduced him. DC's shown us that a circular character arc sucks pretty thoroughly with Jason Todd. No need to see Bucky fall victim to it too, especially since he's actually a good character in the first place, unlike Todd.

I agree. If Bucky is going to be stripped of the costume eventually, he doesn't need to "go evil" again. That'd be a COMPLETE step backwards.

 

[THANOSRULES]

John Walker was different. Steve Rogers all but quit/was forced out because the people in the government wanted to control him more. They recruited a darker new Cap and even got a villain (Taskmaster) to train him. He was a new character and not as connected to the legacy as Bucky. This is apples and oranges to me. It is like, instead of Barry Allen passing the torch to Wally West, a new character was invented out of the blue. Granted, that worked with Jamie Reyes I guess.

Brubaker has the wind at his back, is all, and I want to see the New Cap thing explored fully before we reverse course. 2 years seems a bit too soon for that to me, especially considering Bru's pacing.

Well, were talking 20 years ago..but wasn't john an existing re-occuring character about 1 or 2 years before he took over as a cap? Super -Patriot, and the bucky force or whatever it was called?

He had a bit of a fan base before he took over..and I'd really disagree that he was an "out of the blue character".

I remember most mature audience fans ,at the time ,loving the Walker-saga...and frankly most cap fans love it too (now)..maybe more in hindsight becuase it was a temporary thing.

Sure Walker was trained by Taskmaster...but this actually did more to secure Taskmaster as cool and complex more than it hurt walker.

The John Walker deal was a WELL done legacy..with the only exception being a lame commitment. And a lame commitment to keeping the character static in the years and years to follow.