Bought // Thought March 21

[Dread]

9 of the Great Ten!

Anyway, Cooke's Spirit has been a breath of fresh air each month. Stand-alone adventure with completely beautiful art and dialogue which just flows off the page naturally. Giving something new for the modern readers but remaining incredibly in touch with Eisner's original. Anyone who doubted Cooke's ability to write a wonderful action/adventure comic book must have never read a thing by him and anyone who hasn't at least tried it is really doing themselves a disservice.

Just like Gray and Palmiotti's Jonah Hex, Spirit is a great alternative each month to the normal comics published by DC and both vastly under-perform in sales.

But the Great Ten make up for it by having virtually ridiculous and overlong names, such as "Pilot In Darkness" or "Mother of Champions" or whatever the hell else their names are. I really doubt anyone in China would give their heroes such long and silly sounding names. They sound crudely translated as a joke, like appliance instructions that Jay Leno sticks on HEADLINES.

But, yes, THE SPIRIT is good, and I was a total newb on the property. I wasn't a devoted Eisner reprint fan or something.

 

[BrianWilly]

Well, every single word of those overlong names translates into roughly one vowel per word in Chinese. So it ends up sounding not so long. It only sounds ridiculous in your primitive white man languages.

 

[Anubis]

Silly Gaijin...oh wait, that's Japanese.

 

[Dread]

Why can't it be "Dark Pilot" or "Darkness Pilot"? No, it HAS to be "Pilot in Darkness". There should be a rule in which no super-character's name is more than 2 words. I think there was some werewolf character from Wolverine's book called "Hunter In Darkness", but I bet you can't find 5 people who like him.

Otherwise Superman would be "Demigod Alien Immigrant" or something. Or instead of "Dread" I can be "Person Dreading from Afar". Sheesh.

Granted, I am sure those names were Morrison's idea, who sometimes insists on making things more complicated than they have to be.

But, yeah, I liked THE SPIRIT.

 

[Tropico]

Goddamn it has been a long time since a comic has made me feels so good! Great action, characterization and some pathos all in one comic?! F**K, YEAH! JSoA #4 ruled any and all comics this week.

 

[deemar325]

...The Spirit...as a poor man's Green Hornet?

I guess Dread covered that^

 

[Not Jake]

I guess Dread covered that^

No he didn't. I don't see how similar traits make The Spirit a poor man's Green Hornet. The Spirit is a rich man's Green Hornet. And that probably isn't even a phrase.

 

[Darthphere]

Why can't it be "Dark Pilot" or "Darkness Pilot"? No, it HAS to be "Pilot in Darkness". There should be a rule in which no super-character's name is more than 2 words. I think there was some werewolf character from Wolverine's book called "Hunter In Darkness", but I bet you can't find 5 people who like him.

Otherwise Superman would be "Demigod Alien Immigrant" or something. Or instead of "Dread" I can be "Person Dreading from Afar". Sheesh.

Granted, I am sure those names were Morrison's idea, who sometimes insists on making things more complicated than they have to be.

But, yeah, I liked THE SPIRIT.

The whole gimmick as has been pointed out is thats the direct translation of their names in chinese. Really, get over it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I kind of like the idea of a dude called "August General in Iron."

 

[yenaled]

"Accomplished Perfect Physician" is still my favourite name for a superhero.

 

[Dread]

The whole gimmick as has been pointed out is thats the direct translation of their names in chinese. Really, get over it.

I kind of like the idea of a dude called "August General in Iron."

I know what the "gimmick" is, but it takes me completely out of the story because whenever they show up and spout their ridiculous names, I can't them seriously.

If someone landed in front of me and said, "Greetings, I am August General in Iron", there is no way I would take him seriously, even if he was standing on a pile of charred corpses. Like I said, there needs to be an unofficial rule that no character's name is more than 2 words long, not including "the".

Reading through the CIVIL WAR: BATTLE DAMAGE REPORT thing and it is interesting reading for two reasons; it naturally is from IM's POV, and it has some rather blaring but amusing "excuses" for why Iron Man can't just round up, say, Iron Fist and Moon Knight. Because in continuity, you can't say, "those are decent selling cult books written by good writers, and we wouldn't dare muck with them too much". So they need to come up with some excuses, and they can be amusing. The excuse for Moon Knight is, "he's too crazy to be of any use to us," as if Green Goblin or Venom aren't either, and they're fine as Thunderbolts. On the other hand, it explains that Danny Rand's impersonation of Daredevil hasn't been actually proven (just suspected) and Rand publically has seemed to abandon his Iron Fist persona while insisting the one that is seen running about is an imposter, which is something IM cannot yet disprove. That one works better. Naturally, the culprit behind Osborn's nanobot-crisis with the Atlantians isn't stated, because Iron Man wouldn't admit to that in an inter-gov't memo.

I also have picked Phone Ranger as one of the lamest Marvel characters I've read about all year. Quite why he was fit to survive Scourge is a mystery. Not even the GLA asked him to join.

 

[Not Jake]

I hate the China Men and their red menace names. Chong ching chow hong hyoo

Oh, Dread.

 

[Dread]

Oh, Dread.

So, you disagree with my point by vaguely alluding to me a rascist. That's not appropriate.

The irony is that part of why I find some of the names of the Great Ten ridiculous is because I think it makes them sound cliched. Yes, it's not as bad as the Fu Manchu days or the last names being Chi, Lee, or Chan, but I feel some of those names go too far in the other direction and sound like some poorly translated electronics instruction manual. "Now putting wire into machine jack gloriously!" It's not all of their names. Celestial Archer is fine, for instance. But once you break the 2 word rule they sound cheesier than they should. They sound like something Borat came up with, and that surely isn't meant to be taken seriously.

I mean I like that we're seeing some reasonably portrayed hero teams from other nations here, it's just those overlong names that ruin it. Sometimes a good idea with one irksome flaw that keeps it from being otherwise perfect is more frustrating to me than an idea that is absolute crap on all levels, if that makes any sense. Because it makes me think, "if they could plan 95% of it fine, why did they just tank on that 5%?" It's the same logic behind a sports team losing by 1 point is far more devistating than losing by 40 in some ways (except soccer, where a 1 pt lead is virtually impossible to overcome). You got blown out by double digits, it's bad, but not nearly as soul-crushing as by 1.

I mean there is a martial arts character named "Seven Deadly Brothers". He is one guy. Named Seven Deadly Brothers. You can't take that seriously.

There needed to be a compromise here. Any translation expert knows that exact translations almost always produce gibberish that sounds like, well, "Immortal Man in Darkness". You need to get to the spirit of the word. Why not "Dark Immortal"? Or translating how these names are pronounced in Chinese into equalivent letters and then going from there? Like in Japanese, "oni" means Ogre (or monster). A character named Oni is fine. In the Lupin the Third manga, the samurai Goemon has a sword called "Zetsatuken", which literally translates into "Sword That Cuts Iron/Steel". Should they say, "Iron Cutting Sword" every time they want to mention it? Or just call it by it's name. That could have worked for the Great Ten too. I just don't like them sounding like bluntly translated instruction manuals.

And yes, I know that Japanese and Chinese are not the same (and are greatly different and diverse!). I was just going by familiar references.

Thanks for utterly killing my attempt to change the subject onto CIVIL WAR BATTLE DAMAGE.

 

[Darthphere]

I like Dread's argument because names like Spider-Man and Wolverine aren't equally as ridiculous.

 

[Dread]

I like Dread's argument because names like Spider-Man and Wolverine aren't equally as ridiculous.

They roll off the tongue better than Immortal Man In Darkness.

 

[Darthphere]

They roll off the tongue better than Immortal Man In Darkness.

Ferocious!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Reading through the CIVIL WAR: BATTLE DAMAGE REPORT thing and it is interesting reading for two reasons; it naturally is from IM's POV, and it has some rather blaring but amusing "excuses" for why Iron Man can't just round up, say, Iron Fist and Moon Knight. Because in continuity, you can't say, "those are decent selling cult books written by good writers, and we wouldn't dare muck with them too much". So they need to come up with some excuses, and they can be amusing. The excuse for Moon Knight is, "he's too crazy to be of any use to us," as if Green Goblin or Venom aren't either, and they're fine as Thunderbolts. On the other hand, it explains that Danny Rand's impersonation of Daredevil hasn't been actually proven (just suspected) and Rand publically has seemed to abandon his Iron Fist persona while insisting the one that is seen running about is an imposter, which is something IM cannot yet disprove. That one works better. Naturally, the culprit behind Osborn's nanobot-crisis with the Atlantians isn't stated, because Iron Man wouldn't admit to that in an inter-gov't memo.

I also have picked Phone Ranger as one of the lamest Marvel characters I've read about all year. Quite why he was fit to survive Scourge is a mystery. Not even the GLA asked him to join.

I don't think they can nano Moon Knight UNTIL he does something wrong. Though by existing as Moon Knight, he DOES violate the SHRA. And he won't readily join, and he sure in the hell wouldn't go Thunderbolts.

So I wouldn't say Stark COULD use him. He'd be an all around bad experience. I'm just suprised Stark doesn't dispatch a little team to go find and capture him.

 

[BrianWilly]

Ah, white people. I love you all.

 

[Dread]

I don't think they can nano Moon Knight UNTIL he does something wrong. Though by existing as Moon Knight, he DOES violate the SHRA. And he won't readily join, and he sure in the hell wouldn't go Thunderbolts.

So I wouldn't say Stark COULD use him. He'd be an all around bad experience. I'm just suprised Stark doesn't dispatch a little team to go find and capture him.

I mean I understand why Iron Man "can't" apprehend him. Huston's MK title relies on the status quo of him being a vigilante in NYC who may peek into the dealings of CW but largely avoided it. The title is a good one and sells rather well in the Top 30-35, so Marvel doesn't want to risk mucking with it majorly, at least before the first year is up (or the first HC, as it stands in the biz these days). But that means for something like BATTLE DAMAGE, you have to come up with a reasonable explaination, and those sorts of things are part of what make an otherwise repetition of trivia amusing to read. I don't buy that Specter is too crazy to be beaten down by Iron Man's Nazi paratroopers, hopped up on nanobots and told to brutalize SHRA violaters alongside Venom and Emoball. But as I know the real world stuff, I can understand needing some explaination. Rand's works better, IMO.

Of course, one could mention, as Stark does a few times in that report, that the "emergency level" has lowered after Cap's surrender pretty much broke down the Secret Avengers, aside for the New Avengers, the new New Warriors and a few others. So there may not be as much zeal against specific individuals, especially if their power levels are low (Moon Knight really has no super-powers aside for sporatic low-level super strength below Class 5). The rebellion has been squashed so the Empire can afford to lean back a bit.

I wouldn't want Moon Knight dogging SHIELD troopers every 5 seconds, and as it is he is "under watch" by the feds in the wake of SHRA.

 

[Tropico]

The excuse for Moon Knight is, "he's too crazy to be of any use to us," as if Green Goblin or Venom aren't either, and they're fine as Thunderbolts.

It has already been stated that the Thunderbolts is a government program that is apart from SHIELD. Marvel remembered, at last, that the MU govt. is a shady thing and always have something up their sleeves.

God, the whole Great Ten literal translation thing AGAIN......

 

[Dread]

It has already been stated that the Thunderbolts is a government program that is apart from SHIELD. Marvel remembered, at last, that the MU govt. is a shady thing and always have something up their sleeves.

God, the whole Great Ten literal translation thing AGAIN......

Hey, I'm willing to drop it.

Yeah, the Thunderbolts are working for the CSA and that is U.S. period. SHIELD is supposed to be international, but frankly that line has blurred ever since Ultimate debuted and had their version of SHIELD be solely a U.S. branch. And yes, the Marvel gov't, especially during Republican administrations, often does shady, nasty things and recruiting superhuman convicts to do gruntwork is nothing new. It just is amazing that Ellis believes that the American people and the media would eat it up, considering that as of 2007, Bush's poll numbers are the lowest for any President since Nixon and if a U.S. soldier so much as BRUISES an enemy combatant, or if a cop dares to draw their weapon, they are almost automatically presumed to be guilty demonic savages and judged by the media before any facts are established. At least in NYC. So flipping through NEW THUNDERBOLTS and buying that the media would treat them like darlings is so out of wack that it makes NEXTWAVE look like an accurate documentary.

 

[Tropico]

You have to realize that CW is still recent. I doubt that if the US had abused terrorists or POW's right after 9/11 that there would have been an outcry from the people. And, it plays to the angle that the MU people are tired of superheroes running about "wily nily". Those that are supposedly under their thumb people will accept while those violating the SHRA are made to look like traitors. Besides, they're spin doctoring the whole thing.

 

[Dread]

You have to realize that CW is still recent. I doubt that if the US had abused terrorists or POW's right after 9/11 that there would have been an outcry from the people. And, it plays to the angle that the MU people are tired of superheroes running about "wily nily". Those that are supposedly under their thumb people will accept while those violating the SHRA are made to look like traitors. Besides, they're spin doctoring the whole thing.

I doubt that after 9/11, if Pres. Bush had tasked a half dozen of the world's most violent serial killers and had them brutalize terrorists on live TV, that the public would have not only merely "accepted" it, but MADE ACTION FIGURES of the "killer squad". And there are such things as "leaks" that unravel even the best spin doctoring. Surely someone should be appalled at this story.

Plus, to be honest, that sense of "rabid acceptance of the gov't doing oppressive things in the name of safety" right now in 2007 isn't nearly what it was in 2002, and I get the feeling CW is about 5 years too late and preaching to the choir. I've had years and years worth of these kinds of stories and I frankly am getting tired of it. I get the point. America is evil. Can we please move on?

I mean it's old hat at Marvel, but even I know Ellis is going too far with it in NEW THUNDERBOLTS, and I just flip through it in stores.

 

[Not Jake]

So, you disagree with my point by vaguely alluding to me a rascist. That's not appropriate.

Lighten up, *****e of Long Postings.