Bought/Thought 6/1--Spoilers to Come!

[Elijya]

yeah, there is

and he used a reference

you wanna know why? because 99% of that issue was original. And he used a reference to someone elses work for one panal

 

[PhotoJones]

yeah, there is

and he used a reference

you wanna know why? because 99% of that issue was original. And he used a reference to someone elses work for one panal

there is no way in hell you could prove to me that's the only time in that issue he copied from something else.

it's like ayn rand. you get caught stealing, i can't really trust you again.

 

[Marcdachamp]

there is no way in hell you could prove to me that's the only time in that issue he copied from something else.

it's like ayn rand. you get caught stealing, i can't really trust you again.

How is that stealing? By your logic, Alex Ross is a tracer too.

The only tracers in this industry are those damn free-loading inkers.

 

[marcofthebeast]

Sorry to be off topic but Pwn3r Ranger has the best avitar ever roll over beethoven 'cause that ****ing rules!

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Does the book look good?

Yes?

Then quit yer *****in'.

 

[Anubis]

^Thats pretty much how I feel about it.

 

[PhotoJones]

How is that stealing? By your logic, Alex Ross is a tracer too.

The only tracers in this industry are those damn free-loading inkers.

alex ross uses references all the time. but the references he uses are ALL from photographs that he's taken himself.

that to me is a HUGE difference from just tracing over whatever looks good in the new issue of gq.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I just want to say that I finally read last week's NextWave and I laughed out loud so hard at McDonald's while reading it, that people thought I was a nutjob. Captain America's line to Captain Marvel was so damn funny I almost needed to be hospitalized. No scanner or I'd throw it up for you guys.

Oh, and a Celestial giving the "L" sign to Machine Man. Priceless.

 

[gildea]

There is a difference between reference and tracing, what land frequently does is tracing. Heck even the cover to frightful is a trace of a doctor doom statue.

Regardless it works well for the most part and I don't think the method of creation is as important as the end result.


No one get punisher : the tyger??

I really love my ennis punisher one shots (the end, the cell) and this one might be the best of the lot.

 

[Ben Urich]

I just want to say that I finally read last week's NextWave and I laughed out loud so hard at McDonald's while reading it, that people thought I was a nutjob. Captain America's line to Captain Marvel was so damn funny I almost needed to be hospitalized. No scanner or I'd throw it up for you guys.

Oh, and a Celestial giving the "L" sign to Machine Man. Priceless.

Lest we forget Cable.
"Techno-organic prolapse imminent!"

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I got Punisher, just didn't get around to reading it yet.

And Nextwave still sucks.

 

[Manic]

Lest we forget Cable.
"Techno-organic prolapse imminent!"

To me, my X-bait!

 

[Marcdachamp]

alex ross uses references all the time. but the references he uses are ALL from photographs that he's taken himself.

that to me is a HUGE difference from just tracing over whatever looks good in the new issue of gq.

He's not tracing ANYTHING. To trace is to put a piece of paper over something and literally draw over the lines so you have a very similar picture. He's using references for his work. And yes, Ross CAN be lumped in that category (as can many artists, like Deodato). Some of his heroes and characters look an awful lot like some celebrities. Either way, it still takes talent to draw it. If you honestly think he's literally tracing, you're a yutz.

 

[gildea]

He's not tracing ANYTHING. To trace is to put a piece of paper over something and literally draw over the lines so you have a very similar picture. He's using references for his work. And yes, Ross CAN be lumped in that category (as can many artists, like Deodato). Some of his heroes and characters look an awful lot like some celebrities. Either way, it still takes talent to draw it. If you honestly think he's literally tracing, you're a yutz.

Dunno i'm fairly sure he literally traces on occaision, It would be nigh on impossible to reference things like this so precisely the proportions are EXACT (look at the hands on magneto etc) which is beyond what would normally be expected from referencing, when i first saw these i actually thought he was photo editing:

and

 

[Manic]

Some of his heroes and characters look an awful lot like some celebrities.

True. Has anyone else seen that picture of Black Canary that looks like Ronald Reagan? Yikes.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

The Tyger was one helluva read. If ya didn't pick it up, turn back around and get it now.

 

[Dread]

To switch horses for a bit, I think that that sort of obvious differentiation between the two companies is also very refreshing in an odd sort of way.

If we put both universes to the actual real world standard of how people would react to superheroes, the reality is that the DC citizens would probably be a lot more cynical and the Marvel citizens would probably be a lot more grateful. Fictional universes are very often an allegory of real world attitudes but rarely a perfect mirror. It's those inconsistencies and flaws in the reflection that give the fictional universe its character and spice.

The problem, as Dan Brown would but it, is when we begin to believe literally in our own metaphors. JJ's persecution of Spider-Man sets a nice tone of isolation and that of being an outsider...but as you said, defamation on that scale would pretty much never fly in the real world. And the more that the writers try to convince us that it would be that way in the real world, the less convincing that it is. In my opinion, Civil War believes a bit too literally in its own metaphor. The more that I look at this registration act, the less convinced I am that it would ever really fly in a completely realistic, nonfictional perspective. And yet that's the exact tone that the writers are pushing, that this is exactly what would happen in the real world.

I might argue that this sort of "problem" doesn't really affect the DCU because characters like Superman and Wonder Woman are metaphors through and through, and the writers know this. They are symbols, and work best as symbols. Character like Spider-Man or Wolverine can be seen as metaphorical, yes, but they are also meant to convey realism and "unromanticized" fiction from day one. I would argue that writers need to be incredibly careful with just how real and unromanticized that they make the Marvel universe because you risk forgetting just what these characters are in the first place.

That's another good point. Hence the problem with extremes at times; reality is usually at the dead center of extremes.

CIVIL WAR is an interesting concept, but as you said, it seeks to undermine some of the very pins of the MU and I'm not sure if the company has an "exit strategy", especially since the average lifespan of any "direction" for the company is about 2 years.

ASM wasn't bad, and JMS is better at making the registration side sound, well, reasonable instead of downright aggressive and rotten like Millar does in CW, but there are certain things that make Spider-Man who he is, that if you remove them, he simply becomes "generic superhero with spider-powers". Revealing his identity is one of those final straws; barring demigod level psychics or magic spells (magic? At Marvel? Hahahaha! Next you'll tell me "dead is dead"!), you can't "undo" it. Considering that current comic storylines sometimes ride their entire worth on "undoing" or "retconning" something, maybe some hindsight should remind the editorial department not to dig themselves in too deep (much like when, way back, Wolverine used his senses to tell "100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that Nick Fury was dead" and how silly that seems now).

 

[Ben Urich]

The Tyger was one helluva read. If ya didn't pick it up, turn back around and get it now.

I agree with you here.
Punisher: The Tyger is the sleeper pick-of-the-week from yours truly.

 

[gildea]

Yay.

The tyger was one of those comics that reminds me why I read comics.

 

[Storm Shadow]

To clarify something from earlier, Joe Q WAS NOT responsible for Sins Past. At least not directly. It was JMSs idea to have the two twins who were Gwen's and raised by Norman. However, he wanted PETER to be the father. Joe Q told him to make it Norman.

Which would you have prefered?

I did say that.

Yeah, I forget where it was, but it went something like JMS said he wanted to have the kid be Pete's and then Joe said Nah lets make it...and so on.

 

[Marcdachamp]

That's another good point. Hence the problem with extremes at times; reality is usually at the dead center of extremes.

CIVIL WAR is an interesting concept, but as you said, it seeks to undermine some of the very pins of the MU and I'm not sure if the company has an "exit strategy", especially since the average lifespan of any "direction" for the company is about 2 years.

ASM wasn't bad, and JMS is better at making the registration side sound, well, reasonable instead of downright aggressive and rotten like Millar does in CW, but there are certain things that make Spider-Man who he is, that if you remove them, he simply becomes "generic superhero with spider-powers". Revealing his identity is one of those final straws; barring demigod level psychics or magic spells (magic? At Marvel? Hahahaha! Next you'll tell me "dead is dead"!), you can't "undo" it. Considering that current comic storylines sometimes ride their entire worth on "undoing" or "retconning" something, maybe some hindsight should remind the editorial department not to dig themselves in too deep (much like when, way back, Wolverine used his senses to tell "100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that Nick Fury was dead" and how silly that seems now).

In all fairness, Millar's only done 1 issue of Civil War thus far, and the only Pro-Registration side we saw was Maria Hill, who is a total ***** either way. Give him time before you make a judgement call like that.

 

[Dread]

In all fairness, Millar's only done 1 issue of Civil War thus far, and the only Pro-Registration side we saw was Maria Hill, who is a total ***** either way. Give him time before you make a judgement call like that.

True enough. I've just read other works from Millar, so it may be easier to assume.

 

[Assassin]

the specture was a pretty damn good book considering 1, i've never read gotham central and 2, i never liked the spectre.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

What's with all the Ultimate War hate. Extinction was anti-climactic as hell but War was awesome. Some fabulous fight scenes and some badassery by Colossus too.

 

[BrianWilly]

I hated it because of how utterly incomprehensible and illogical it was. Iron Man goes to Xavier's house, finds out that it's emply, and then...decides out of the blue that this means Xavier has joined with Magneto.

Wtf?

And then Magneto attacks the Ultimates, kicks their ass, so...because of this, Captain America decides that he's going to take down the X-Men. Not Magneto, but the X-Men.

WTF??

Way to make the Ultimates out to be arrogant, senseless bullies even more than usual, Millar. As if fighting themselves wasn't enough, let's have them start hunting a bunch of scared teenagers for no discernable reason at all!

And then the actual "war," which didn't even happen until issue four of the entire series, was a complete letdown. Cyclops wasn't there, Iceman wasn't there, Xavier and Jean were taken out by a bunch of psi-scramblers, so...instead of a fight of the Ultimates versus the X-Men, what we actually get is a fight of the Ultimates and the entire SHIELD personnel versus Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Beast, and Kitty. What??

Oh, and Millar just couldn't help himself and just had to make a few of the soldiers bigots.

Oh, and Captain America beats Wolverine by being a cheap bastard. Goody.

Oh, and then the way that the X-Men win is that Iceman just shows up and beats everyone.

I've never regretted buying a trade more than I've regretted buying this trade.