Bought//Thought March 07 2007.

[Darthphere]

It's probably not his first instinct to run to Google and search "comic" and "torrents" when he doesn't find Captain America on the shelves, though. It's certainly not a safe assumption that anyone who doesn't find it is just going to download it.

If they wanted to read it that badly, they would. Of course, they don't, they just want to ***** about it instead.

 

[kainedamo]

I agree with DP. People can at least read it. And I doubt many people are so naive that the thought of downloading it hasn't occured. It was one of the first thoughts that sprang into my mind when I couldn't find it in the store.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, and for the record, I'm speaking about posters on this board *****ing about it. I could care less about the regular ol folks who bought it and tried to sell it on ebay for disgusting amounts of money.

 

[Kevin]

So I read Fantastic Four 543 and I liked it a lot. Anyone else think Franklin may have aged a bit? Also, Stan Lee is funny. Man, he is so great.

 

[Dread]

Buying it is not the only way of reading a comic. And before you go on a rant about d/l comics and supporting your LCS, you can download a comic and then buy it.

I had a feeling you would respond though, you being one of the principle people here ranting about the comic without having read it, and no, knowing the details isn't the same thing. Either way, if I recall you said your LCS had copies, but you werent going to buy it anyway, but of course, you commented on it anyway.

D/Ling is easier or harder depending on your computer or connection.

Part of me doesn't even want to comment. You already seem to know what I am going to say so it seems to be a waste of text.

I commented on the principle. I didn't read CAPTAIN AMERICA before his death, despite some general consensus that Brubaker was good. In fact, CA's sales figures before CW were showing nominal, steady growth based entirely on the quality of the book, so I didn't doubt the consensus. It just falls into SHE-HULK territory, or TheCorpulent1 regarding DAREDEVIL. I simply don't have enough interest in the character to ever buy their solo. It doesn't matter who is writing it and how good it is. Lord knows I enjoy Dan Slott's writing, and I have no doubt his SHE-HULK is great stuff. I simply don't have enough interest in SHE-HULK to warrent $3 a month.

The irony, which I am sure you would reply in a snarky tone, is how I have at times bought utterly dreadful comics simply because they starred characters I did have interest in, like, say, USM for a while, while ignoring good comics about characters I had zero interest in, like She-Hulk. It's a paradox to be sure and admittedly an illogical one, but people are inheriantly illogical.

The fact of the matter is that if I spent $75 attempting to chase down his last 4 trades right now, it would be because of one reason and one reason alone; because Capt. America died. Plain and simple. I would be doing precisely what Marvel wants with this shameless publicity stunt. Regardless of the quality of the story, that is what Marvel is billing it as and selling it as, much as the most brilliantly written action film is still an action film. And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that we are returning to a time, at BOTH Marvel and DC, where we live in the perpetual crossover, where both sides compete over who to kill, maim, or destroy next and which would bring about the most media attention and/or fan outcry. Both companies have given up on the idea of actually pleasing fans, because they are convinced that they buy out of being infuriated. It may be accurate, but it's cynical as hell, and I dislike the trend.

The irony is that you didn't see such divided opinions about ANNIHILATION as one did about CW #7, and you didn't need Tom B. going on Newsarama every 18 seconds to justify what was done in ANNIHILATION. The story stood for itself, readers generally seemed to like it, and that is that. It also was, a rarity, satisfying, and reliant on old themes. Talks of a sequal have been met positively. Whereas talks of a sequal to CW are met with a vocal minority going, "you promised us a break". Marvel and DC can stick their fingers in their ears all they want and engage in "groupthink" where all criticism is ignored and forgotten, but that is unhealthy, and the industry is fragile enough as it is to survive another crash if things hit the skids. No one thought it would've come in 1992 when DEATH OF SUPERMAN came out, either.

 

[Eddie Brock]

i'm normally all for downloading, but when it comes to comics, i want the authentic thing

when i go to WizardWorld in June, i'll be on the lookout for Cap 25
something tells me that it'll be worth something in years to come

 

[Darthphere]

D/Ling is easier or harder depending on your computer or connection.

Part of me doesn't even want to comment. You already seem to know what I am going to say so it seems to be a waste of text.

I commented on the principle. I didn't read CAPTAIN AMERICA before his death, despite some general consensus that Brubaker was good. In fact, CA's sales figures before CW were showing nominal, steady growth based entirely on the quality of the book, so I didn't doubt the consensus. It just falls into SHE-HULK territory, or TheCorpulent1 regarding DAREDEVIL. I simply don't have enough interest in the character to ever buy their solo. It doesn't matter who is writing it and how good it is. Lord knows I enjoy Dan Slott's writing, and I have no doubt his SHE-HULK is great stuff. I simply don't have enough interest in SHE-HULK to warrent $3 a month.

The irony, which I am sure you would reply in a snarky tone, is how I have at times bought utterly dreadful comics simply because they starred characters I did have interest in, like, say, USM for a while, while ignoring good comics about characters I had zero interest in, like She-Hulk. It's a paradox to be sure and admittedly an illogical one, but people are inheriantly illogical.

The fact of the matter is that if I spent $75 attempting to chase down his last 4 trades right now, it would be because of one reason and one reason alone; because Capt. America died. Plain and simple. I would be doing precisely what Marvel wants with this shameless publicity stunt. Regardless of the quality of the story, that is what Marvel is billing it as and selling it as, much as the most brilliantly written action film is still an action film. And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that we are returning to a time, at BOTH Marvel and DC, where we live in the perpetual crossover, where both sides compete over who to kill, maim, or destroy next and which would bring about the most media attention and/or fan outcry. Both companies have given up on the idea of actually pleasing fans, because they are convinced that they buy out of being infuriated. It may be accurate, but it's cynical as hell, and I dislike the trend.

The irony is that you didn't see such divided opinions about ANNIHILATION as one did about CW #7, and you didn't need Tom B. going on Newsarama every 18 seconds to justify what was done in ANNIHILATION. The story stood for itself, readers generally seemed to like it, and that is that. It also was, a rarity, satisfying, and reliant on old themes. Talks of a sequal have been met positively. Whereas talks of a sequal to CW are met with a vocal minority going, "you promised us a break". Marvel and DC can stick their fingers in their ears all they want and engage in "groupthink" where all criticism is ignored and forgotten, but that is unhealthy, and the industry is fragile enough as it is to survive another crash if things hit the skids. No one thought it would've come in 1992 when DEATH OF SUPERMAN came out, either.

Wow, thats a lot of words. I thought you said it would be a waste of text to respond?

I like how you use Corp as an example, though as far as I know, Corp doesn't comment on DD unless were trying to force him to read it ( it will happen one day Corp, be careful). I don't care if you buy Captain America or not, thats your right. What I do care about is when people come on here and bash a comic they haven't read. Fine, you can hate the fact that they killed him off, perfectly reasonable, but you really have nowhere to stand when you comment on the actual comic, without you know, having read it. And that has nothing to do with whether or not Marvel printed enough copies or your download speed.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11337772&postcount=112

Just so people dont think I'm making stuff up. Specifically where you compare it to Ralph's death to see which one was worst.

 

[Kevin]

I almost wanna pull a Darthphere x-factor stunt.

 

[Darthphere]

I almost wanna pull a Darthphere x-factor stunt.

Huh?

 

[Dread]

i'm normally all for downloading, but when it comes to comics, i want the authentic thing

when i go to WizardWorld in June, i'll be on the lookout for Cap 25
something tells me that it'll be worth something in years to come

It most definately will be. SUPERMAN #75, the death issue, still sells for $7-$100 depending on the print, the quality, and the extras. Even if CA comes back within 6 months or less as some people believe, it should be worth a pretty penny in a decade, if not sooner. I mean, MARVEL ZOMBIES #1 still goes for about $25 without a CGC grade for the first print, and that book's not nearly as controversial.

Wow, thats a lot of words. I thought you said it would be a waste of text to respond?

I like how you use Corp as an example, though as far as I know, Corp doesn't comment on DD unless were trying to force him to read it ( it will happen one day Corp, be careful). I don't care if you buy Captain America or not, thats your right. What I do care about is when people come on here and bash a comic they haven't read. Fine, you can hate the fact that they killed him off, perfectly reasonable, but you really have nowhere to stand when you comment on the actual comic, without you know, having read it. And that has nothing to do with whether or not Marvel printed enough copies or your download speed.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11337772&postcount=112

Just so people dont think I'm making stuff up. Specifically where you compare it to Ralph's death to see which one was worst.

I did eventually stop commenting at that topic, didn't I?

I was arguing the practice and stuff, not the actual issue. Like you said, I can't. It is still part of an unsettling trend these days.

I wonder if anyone else on SHH has a poster devoted to trying to expose every single inconsistancy or error in judgement that they ever post in EVERY post. Hell, at least when comic writers get this sort of crap, they're making 6 figures a year. I make nothing for posting here.

 

[Kevin]

Huh?

Spoiler

X-factor 87

 

[Darthphere]

I was arguing the practice and stuff, not the actual issue. Like you said, I can't. It is still part of an unsettling trend these days.

I wonder if anyone else on SHH has a poster devoted to trying to expose every single inconsistancy or error in judgement that they ever post in EVERY post. Hell, at least when comic writers get this sort of crap, they're making 6 figures a year. I make nothing for posting here.

You ever thought that I hold you to a higher standard? ( I don't)

I just laugh though because you're pulling the Darth likes picking on me card, when I went after people in the Cap #25 thread for doing the same thing you did, a lot more harshly by the way. Anymore songs on that violin thread?

 

[Darthphere]

X-factor 87

Oh you mean when I posted the whole issue? Go for it, but keep it on the down low.

 

[Dread]

You ever thought that I hold you to a higher standard? ( I don't)

I just laugh though because you're pulling the Darth likes picking on me card, when I went after people in the Cap #25 thread for doing the same thing you did, a lot more harshly by the way. Anymore songs on that violin thread?

I didn't know because after the first day or so I stopped commenting at the CA #25 topic. I didn't read the issue nor do I intend to, so I felt I said all that was needed and that I could.

Besides, if I misspell something, I can count on Darth riding my ass with some snarky comment. If I make any mistake on any post anywhere, sure enough Darth will ride in and enlighten me with what an utter ****** I am. It gets annoying on "off" days when I don't have the patience for that kind of crap.

So, your thing is, "don't get irritated, I'm much more of a jackass with other people"? Well, bravo, Tony Stark.

But, Ralph Dibney and Cap have been through a ringer for the past 12 months. Ralph, who already has been DC's whipping boy after the rape/death of his wife, some of his friends, and being suckered by a cult, then finally gets to die. True, he entraps some B-List JLA threats (I have never seen Felix Faust clamoured for from the DC fans like, say, Darkseid or Despero when it comes to JLA enemies) but many of us were hoping for a more positive outcome for Ralph (either he saves his wife or moves on from her death), but nope, he just gets to die. Cap, naturally, has had a rough year; he got to be written as a thug by Millar, misrepresented in order to fool the readers, and thus got to surrender to a semi-fascist faction and then get killed by his mortal enemies while half of America wishes he was never born. It hasn't been a good year for either was my point. In a way it's been worse for Ralph because DC is violently opposed to any character who was light and fluffy. Marvel is too, but DC started and honed that trend with IDENTITY CRISIS, and COUNTDOWN TO IC. This is all my opinion of course, but if we can't post opinions on MB's then they're no fun.

 

[Darthphere]

I didn't know because after the first day or so I stopped commenting at the CA #25 topic. I didn't read the issue nor do I intend to, so I felt I said all that was needed and that I could.

Besides, if I misspell something, I can count on Darth riding my ass with some snarky comment. If I make any mistake on any post anywhere, sure enough Darth will ride in and enlighten me with what an utter ****** I am. It gets annoying on "off" days when I don't have the patience for that kind of crap.

So, your thing is, "don't get irritated, I'm much more of a jackass with other people"? Well, bravo, Tony Stark.

But, Ralph Dibney and Cap have been through a ringer for the past 12 months. Ralph, who already has been DC's whipping boy after the rape/death of his wife, some of his friends, and being suckered by a cult, then finally gets to die. True, he entraps some B-List JLA threats (I have never seen Felix Faust clamoured for from the DC fans like, say, Darkseid or Despero when it comes to JLA enemies) but many of us were hoping for a more positive outcome for Ralph (either he saves his wife or moves on from her death), but nope, he just gets to die. Cap, naturally, has had a rough year; he got to be written as a thug by Millar, misrepresented in order to fool the readers, and thus got to surrender to a semi-fascist faction and then get killed by his mortal enemies while half of America wishes he was never born. It hasn't been a good year for either was my point. In a way it's been worse for Ralph because DC is violently opposed to any character who was light and fluffy. Marvel is too, but DC started and honed that trend with IDENTITY CRISIS, and COUNTDOWN TO IC. This is all my opinion of course, but if we can't post opinions on MB's then they're no fun.

You clearly caught feelings. I'm done with this.

 

[Dread]

You clearly caught feelings. I'm done with this.

Okay?

 

[Darthphere]

I said I'm done, continue in your martyrdom. What didnt you understand?

 

[Dread]

I said I'm done, continue in your martyrdom. What didnt you understand?

Okay, I was just lost on the "caught feelings" bit.

I was being a bit harsh and I apologize. I have a lot of pressure today, including cramming for a test I am not ready for, an internship review coming up, some projects I am not prepared for, and whatnot. Today you were the straw (on the camel's back, as the saying goes) and that was unfair. I can be a jackass too.

 

[Darthphere]

Okay, I was just lost on the "caught feelings" bit.

I was being a bit harsh and I apologize. I have a lot of pressure today, including cramming for a test I am not ready for, an internship review coming up, some projects I am not prepared for, and whatnot. Today you were the straw (on the camel's back, as the saying goes) and that was unfair. I can be a jackass too.

So you treat me like crap and then you call me a camel? How dare you.

 

[Anubis]

What I don't understand is, if you don't care enough about the character to ever bother reading his ongoing, then why do you even give a s**t that he died?

 

[Eddie Brock]

What I don't understand is, if you don't care enough about the character to ever bother reading his ongoing, then why do you even give a s**t that he died?

It think it has to do with everything he symbolizes. You don't have to be an avid fan to be affected.

Everyone was upset about Anna Nicole, and guaranteed, I know that none of them watched the Anna Nicole Smith Show.

 

[Dread]

So you treat me like crap and then you call me a camel? How dare you.

I was trying to say that today, some of your replies was the straw that broke the camel's back in addition to my own baggage and I got unfairly nasty with my posts. I was trying to apologize. That doesn't mean I've changed my opinion about Cap's death.

What I don't understand is, if you don't care enough about the character to ever bother reading his ongoing, then why do you even give a s**t that he died?

Because Cap is a longstanding character who has already been through enough, and I dislike the trend of "media grabbing shock tactics" that DC ran into the ground during the 90's and was part of what led to the comic industry bursting at the seams. The past year or so at Marvel have argueably seen more death than the previous five; however if someone wants to actually research that and prove me wrong, hey, I'd be interested. DC has been doing it too so it just comes at a bad time.

Plus, everyone KNOWS Cap will be back, and by Cap I mean Rogers. Hell, some people doubt it'll last 6 months. So it just smacks of Marvel treating it as a cash-in field day, regardless of the story Bru is writing.

People ***** and moan about Wolverine yet don't read any of his solo's or X-titles. People moan about MIGHTY AVENGERS despite not reading the first issue. People have commented on stuff they haven't read for as long as message boards have existed. So long as you try to avoid specifics about it, you can be fine. Like if I said, "CA #25 is a terrible story", I would be full of it because I have never read it. However, the fact that it is simply yet another death, yet another tragedy in Marvel heaped upon a full TWO YEARS full of events that were nothing but death-filled tragedies, THAT I don't need to have read the comic to comment on.

That, and add onto the fact that Brubaker has reached "immaculate writer" status, which means in approximately 2 years he'll be churning out overrated mediocrity on books he's ill suited for, and everyone will wonder how such a great writer stooped so low. Hey, I like the guy on IMMORTAL IRON FIST. But as soon as a writer reaches a point where praise, no matter what controversial stuff they do, is unanimous, that means one thing; they'll slack. They'll realize they no longer have to try, and won't. That is what I believe has ruined Bendis (that, in addition to Marvel sometimes letting him do books he is ill suited for, or stay on books long past his prime), and it can happen to any writer. Hell, look how far Claremont has fallen in 20 years. It would be a shame to happen to Bru. The fact that the guy admits he "always planned to kill Cap, just CW made it happen sooner" means it is fair to dump some of this irritance on his lap. Really, why? You managed to resurrect Bucky and somehow not have the legions eat you alive, you want to keep digging until it happens?

I mean, it would be my dream to write ASM, that doesn't mean I'd want to do a DEATH OF SPIDER-MAN story after 2 years. I don't get what makes writers want to off long-time characters; I just don't see why. Zev once claimed the only difference between fan-writers and professionals is that only professionals would have the guts to actually publish some of the wacky stories that they do, like Spider-Man eating someone's face. Fans would be embarassed, or feel selfish for wanting to off Cap; but to Bru, it's just an appetizer. I don't understand that difference, as a fan I guess. What posesses someone to go, "Y'know what would make a great story? Cap being shot to death by his mortal enemies while America throws food at him in disgrace. Yeah, that makes me all hot." I really don't get it. I'd never write a story like that, ever.

It think it has to do with everything he symbolizes. You don't have to be an avid fan to be affected.

Everyone was upset about Anna Nicole, and guaranteed, I know that none of them watched the Anna Nicole Smith Show.

Precisely.

If someone made a movie in which it was promoted as an pro-incest fable, would you have to actually watch it before you could be "allowed" to say, "This just proves that Hollywood is losing it's morality" or something. Yeah, it's a messed up example, but the best I could do.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Another example: Barbaro

Many people were upset by that, and I bet that a majority of them didn't follow the Kentucky Derby. It's all about the symbol. Barbaro, for example, symbolized recovery and determination, overcoming unbeatable odds. When he died, it felt like a little piece of hope died with him.

The same can be said of Captain America.

 

[PWN3R]

Bwuhahhaha. And by that I mean *tears*. My shop still hasn't got last week's books in. Someone hold me.

 

[Dread]

That sounds like a drag.

I don't know...maybe I should try practicing a little positivity. I often bemoan how people never want to talk about the books I did like, but I don't actively seek those topics out either. When I get online tomorrow, maybe I should actually visit the MISC. COMICS forum and post away about INVINCIBLE and DYNAMO 5, books I actually have liked a lot.

And for the record I have never said, "I am done with Marvel" over Cap's death or anything else they did that I disliked. Because I never will be done with them. No matter what, there always are some good books, and it would be unfair to dump them just to make a point. It'd be denying those books sales and myself the pleasure of reading them.