Breaking the realism?

[SuperFerret]

It really depends on the people. Using your example of Cloverfield, the only people I've seen that didn't like it due to lack of explanation were on these forums. The people I've known personally who didn't like it, didn't like it due to the style in which it was shot.

 

[lowly marvelite]

It's in this particular example that I can confidently say they will not accept a Norse God plopped onto their laps with no conceivable explanation......or at least connected in some way as to create suspension of disbelief.[/quote]

You may have a point. People knew what they were getting when they saw Lord of the Rings...hell I read the trilogy in junior high, I'm sure others did too...a fantasy epic based on an already established and popular fantasy book. Not much explanation was needed for the average moviegoer because they were already familiar with it. With Thor, from a mythological perspective, Greek and Roman mythology always seemed more popular than Norse mythology. From our perspective, as fans of the comic, we may be a bit of a minority. Thor, the mythological character or the comic book character may need a bit of explanation...I think Branagh is smart enough to see this though and will probably give some sort of seven to 10 minute prologue at the beginning of the movie that gives the average moviegoer something to spring board into the movie with.
In regard to magic...if I may offer my very humble 2 cents: who said real magic does not exist? I'm not talking illusions, I'm talking magic.

 

[Chewy]

The entire movie is going to be about who Thor is and his life as a Norse god and his interactions with other Norse gods, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Rock Sexton]

The entire movie is going to be about who Thor is and his life as a Norse god and his interactions with other Norse gods, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Does seem like the thread belongs in the Avengers forum, but the question remains true - how are they going to connect the dots in Thor? I mean Nick Fury can't just slide out of the dark in Midgard and tell Thor he's not the only superhero.

 

[afan]

Oh, I agree, those things should be addressed. I thought you were talking about the movie having to explain exactly what the nature of the gods or Asgard were or where they came from. That's the part I don't care to see because it robs them of their mystique.

I'm with you here. One of the failings of the Star Wars prequels was it's attempt to rationalize the "Force" which completely de-mystified its appeal.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh God, don't even remind me. MIDICHLORIANS!

 

[Rich Santoro]

Good example. I guess my point is, I keep seeing time and time again that people want to be told "what, who, where, when, how" ...... except one notable group - comic book loyalists. This is because IMHO comic book fans have a far wilder imagination than normal audiences.

I have to add, zombie movies have as long history... and people just like the genre. But more importantly, zombie movies are cheap as hell and don't need to make much in order to succeed (and they don't make much).

28 days later cost about $10 million to make, and grossed about $55 million. I am not so sure that works for Thor.

Dawn of the Dead (2004) was one of the most successful of the Zombie movies. It grossed about $100 million world-wide on a budget of $28 million. Again, pretty good return on investment... but I think that you will agree that Thor, Avengers or any Marvel movie coming down the road will need more than $28 million to produce... and a $100 million gross would be a disaster. Horror movies rely on a very loyal fanbase, and so long as they provide great imagery, suspense, and creativity the fans will be pleased. But Thor needs to lure in and satisfy a much larger viewer base.

Additionally, I have to note that comic book fans don't need explanations, because they have great imaginations... AND they know most of the details already.

Now, overall... the cross-over details (Asgard to Midgard) are what needs the most backstory. So the solo movie should start the process of layering the different worlds / dimensions together (even just subtley), so that Avengers can pick it up and finish the link without it being so ham-handed.

 

[Rich Santoro]

And I agree 1000% that the midichlorians was an absolute crime. A lot of people criticize Lucas over various things... but for me, that is one of the top 2 or 3 issues I have with him:

Jar-Jar
MidiChlorians
Greedo shoots first
Boba Fett's lame death
Jango Fett's lame death

For all of these, I find Lucas guilty of Sci-fi / fantasy treason.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe the Thor movie should end with Thor as Don Blake a number of years prior to the period the Avengers movie will take place in, and then the Avengers movie should pick up with a prologue involving Blake's notorious vacation in Norway. Then, the Avengers movie switches to focus on the sci fi heroes as Fury gets them together, and then he tells them about this new wave of storms over the world's deserts and areas affected with draught and such and how there've been reports of a blonde guy near all of them. You know, treat Thor as sort of a modern-day Sasquatch. Then, when they meet up with Thor and Thor is satisfied that they're good guys, he can tell them his own story about being banished to Earth from his home in Asgard, Fury can smile and nod and whisper to Iron Man how this guy's crazy but he's so powerful that it doesn't really matter to him--they need him on the team, even if it means accommodating his "delusions."

We get an explanation of Asgard that we know is true (because of Thor's movie), but the more grounded, sci fi characters dismiss as a delusion. So we get a little bit of dramatic irony going, too.

 

[Rich Santoro]

That could work... This is what I am talking about. Something simple, but still necessary in my view. Even Superman had the openning scene showing Krypton, and an explanation for Jor-El that the yellow sun will make him strong... etc...

We didn't need star charts or astro-physicists explaning the distance to Krypton, but there was a little effort.

 

[OnedetachedonE]

I think Thor will do fine at the movie theater. I hear most of the story is centered in Asgard. Heck, three of the highest grossing films in movie history (the Lord of the Rings movies) are centered around a mythical realm with mythical creatures. Thor should do great.

 

[yoshimura]

It should break realism like crazy.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Pseudo-realism you mean on Iron Man? Avengers will break realism, but before this Iron Man, Captain America, Thor are all self-contained movies.

Iron Man is going to break realism anyway with Mandarin Makluan rings.

 

[Vartha]

Tony Stark is an engineering genius, Bruce Banner got radiated by Gamma Rays, Henry Pym invented a suit that shrinks him down to the size of an ant, and Steve Rogers is a man who signed up for the Super Soldier program. They all have something to do with science.

Thor on the other hand is an immortal with a giant hammer, long blonde hair, and is a norse god. How is that going to adapt well on-screen with all the other characters? Unless they pull a lot of creative licenses on him, making the only thing similar to the comic book Thor is the name.

And how is it it believable that Captain America is a Super Soldier that was frozen in ice in 1945 and thawed out today?
YES we say Thor is a GOD, but, also think about Thor as a VIKING SUPERHERO there's not much of a difference other than Thor's older by a few hundred years.
You have to figure MYTH had to START somewhere.
Maybe Thor WAS originally some Viking warrior who was just amazingly strong and certain events made him a god in Folktales basically getting more and more exaggerated over time to not only TEACH children but to entertain them and others at the same time.

Thor isn't all that difficult to believe as the rest of the Avengers.

 

[Vartha]

Does seem like the thread belongs in the Avengers forum, but the question remains true - how are they going to connect the dots in Thor? I mean Nick Fury can't just slide out of the dark in Midgard and tell Thor he's not the only superhero.

That's another point I remember Stan Lee covering, how would a God of myth like Thor and Herc react the first time they meet a Superhero of today. They aren't your average mortal warrior.

 

[Microchip]

Iron Man is going to break realism anyway with Mandarin Makluan rings.

I don't think the Mandarin will be in Iron Man though. He's not in IM2, as far as I've seen.

Then, when they meet up with Thor and Thor is satisfied that they're good guys, he can tell them his own story about being banished to Earth from his home in Asgard, Fury can smile and nod and whisper to Iron Man how this guy's crazy but he's so powerful that it doesn't really matter to him--they need him on the team, even if it means accommodating his "delusions."

I think something close to this would be best.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Faverau says he wants Mandarin in IM3.

I think the inter-dimensional explanation works, they just have to tell the audience about it at the beginning of the film. If people can believe Superman, they can believe in Thor.

 

[Lobo]

And how is it it believable that Captain America is a Super Soldier that was frozen in ice in 1945 and thawed out today?
YES we say Thor is a GOD, but, also think about Thor as a VIKING SUPERHERO there's not much of a difference other than Thor's older by a few hundred years.
You have to figure MYTH had to START somewhere.
Maybe Thor WAS originally some Viking warrior who was just amazingly strong and certain events made him a god in Folktales basically getting more and more exaggerated over time to not only TEACH children but to entertain them and others at the same time.

Thor isn't all that difficult to believe as the rest of the Avengers.

perfectly said!

 

[Aztec]

The whole point of The Avengers is how a team can be formed with 4 superheroes (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America) who seemingly have nothing in common. That's part of the magic, that's the crucial "How in the world?" part of the story.

Once again, I feel like "The Ultimates" handled this challenge very well. The characters differences were actually highlighted as opposed to being ignored or simply glossed over. The differences, and seeming incompatibility, of these 4 characters is what makes this team so amazing.

You have a super rich, playboy, alcoholic, technological genius in a futuristic fighting suit; a World War II era super solider; a brilliant scientist who turns into a rampaging, nearly indestructible beast whenever he is emotionally aroused; and a Norse god with a magic hammer. It's not exactly the X-Men here! That's what makes The Avengers so unique as a team.

So I say highlight the differences and the strangeness. That's what will set this movie apart from all the others!

 

[Triad]

I have to be honest - I've never read a Thor comic and am not very sure if this slant was in any of the Avengers comics either, (for that matter, don't know if this was already stated here because I haven't read all the comments!) but I absolutely LOVED the idea that another poster had in a different thread.
They suggested that the other Avengers, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the public cannot deny that Thor is an EXTREMELY powerful being, but feel that he might just be delusional or schizophrenic! They don't know if he's really an alien, a mutant -OR- quite possibly A GENUINE NORSE GOD. It could be left up to the audience to decide if the mythical Asgard moments are REAL or the product of Blake's FANTASIES! The battles with Loki could be literal or an inner battle within his psyche...you just don't know!
I think that might work! If it is done right, it would be a very interesting avenue to pursue that I haven't seen in a superhero film before! Kinda brings the film-goers' opinions and interpretations into the story and injects some possible realism, ya know? Certainly worthy of the talents of a Shakespearean director such as Branagh, don't you think?

 

[Vartha]

I have to be honest - I've never read a Thor comic and am not very sure if this slant was in any of the Avengers comics either, (for that matter, don't know if this was already stated here because I haven't read all the comments!) but I absolutely LOVED the idea that another poster had in a different thread.
They suggested that the other Avengers, S.H.I.E.L.D. and the public cannot deny that Thor is an EXTREMELY powerful being, but feel that he might just be delusional or schizophrenic! They don't know if he's really an alien, a mutant -OR- quite possibly A GENUINE NORSE GOD. It could be left up to the audience to decide if the mythical Asgard moments are REAL or the product of Blake's FANTASIES! The battles with Loki could be literal or an inner battle within his psyche...you just don't know!
I think that might work! If it is done right, it would be a very interesting avenue to pursue that I haven't seen in a superhero film before! Kinda brings the film-goers' opinions and interpretations into the story and injects some possible realism, ya know? Certainly worthy of the talents of a Shakespearean director such as Branagh, don't you think?

Yes you're referring to ULTIMATE Thor. There's a different line of Marvel comics called the Ultimate line. The Avengers in that line are called the Ultimates, and that's how they basically treat Thor, or TREATED Thor originally. THAT Thor is more like a Hippy tho.
The CLASSIC Thor is who the movie's about, with alittle from the Ultimate Thor added.

CLASSIC or 616 Thor

Thor TODAY (also 616)

Ulimates Thor or we call him "Ulty Thor"

 

[Vartha]

perfectly said!

heh Thanks Lobo. t:

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I don't know if this is really on topic for this thread, but wasn't sure were else to post about it...

had this idea for like, I don't know, like after credit kinda scene, or something

ok, so, lets say if by the end of the movie Thor is sent down to earth as Donald Blake

I think it would be kinda neat to have, Ty Burrell, make a cameo scene as Dr. Samson, again
showing him in a therapy section with Blake, with him talking all about how he believe he's a God,....ect.

Samson could be a good way to tie him in with the other movies with out any big name cameos

though, acually this could also work for Fury's cameo tie-in
have them in section, talking, he's saying all this stuff about things to came that he's suppose to help stop
and you cut to Fury watching them on a screen (cause, Shield would probably have Samsons office bugged)

and maybe you see like it pan out to show a whole walls os screens with Fury looking up background on Blake, and stuff
it would be kinda cool if he had one screen that was like a graphical map, search for all recent impacts from meteor showers or what have you, to get a reading on Thors Hammer

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ that is not bad...

I want to kick in something about the comments pertaining to the notion that... since all this other over the top stuff in the Marvel movies is essentially considered "believeable" (cap being frozen for decades then re-animating, the fantasy power source for IM suit and the outright implausibility of its technology, a man being irradiated and becoming a overgrown green behemoth)... then Thor's origin and godliness would just simply be believeable without any effort. Well, this ignores two important points:

1) All of those other events had some degree of Star Trekian pseudo-science explanation and development...

2) All of those other events stretch (and break) the laws of known science...

Simply dropping Thor into the mix with now development of the who, what, where, when and how of it all, is a total departure from those two points. So it would be a different case... and not just "if tpeople can believe this, then they will believe that."

I have said it before, there is no need to go over the top and spend more than 5-minutes or so, honing in on the back-story... but it really should be there. I would really like to see some dialogue around the existence of pocket dimensions and alternate realities in the vastness of an endless universe... Also, some reference to all the phenomenon out there like black-holes, worm-holes, dark matter, dark energy... would be good, pointing out that we don't fully understand these things. And those are just some of the stuff that we are aware of, not to mention the many mysteries that are, as of yet, undiscovered.

 

[Vartha]

The back story is what MAKES Thor. The average person doesn't KNOW Thor's story.
This isn't sci-fi it's Fantasy no wormholes etc. Thor is a different kind of superhero, one that SCIENCE can't explain, so why bother trying to make it more difficult than it is?

Thor's a being that lives for thousands of years with powers. nothing to explain except for getting banned from Asgard and why.