Bruce's Legacy

Timstuff, is Ibn older than the twins? I think you should introduce Carli Connors as Bruce's other daughter, maybe even Dick. Then everyone fights each other.
 
Timstuff said:
Heheheh, sorry if that seems a little "out there". But hey, if it does, just think "elseworlds". :p
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I like it:up:
 
Batman the 6th said:
Timstuff, is Ibn older than the twins? I think you should introduce Carli Connors as Bruce's other daughter, maybe even Dick. Then everyone fights each other.
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Yeah, Ibn would be about 3-5 years older than the twins. Who's Carli Connors? I'm not sure I've heard of her. And yeah, Dick Grayson would probably be in there too.
 
I'm not sure where I heard about Carli Connors, but I'm still searching. And who is the oldest to youngest. Is Ibn or Dick older? Which one of the twins comes first?
 
Would be interesting to have Ibn al Xu'ffasch find out the truth about his real father in his teen years, and for him to leave Ra's dreams of an heir (as Bruce had) to seek his true heritage in Gotham. He's about the only one I wouldn't mind taking over the mantle of the bat - other than Dick Grayson (who'd probably be quite an aged man by then as well).
 
Batman the 6th said:
I'm not sure where I heard about Carli Connors, but I'm still searching. And who is the oldest to youngest. Is Ibn or Dick older? Which one of the twins comes first?
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I'm not sure how it is in the comics, but in my story Dick Grayson would probably be about 10 years older than Ibn. As for the twins, "Helena" would probably have been born first.
 
I still didn't find anything about Carli, but I found 2 stories that might interest ppl.
Go to yahoo, not sure about google, Search "Bruce Wayne's Family", and go to "Scions of the dark knight". Another one is Genom Corporation: The SMILE Project. These stories may not be on the first page when u search 4 them, but if not they are on the second or 3rd. I didn't read all of Genom Corp., but I'll see if Carli is mentioned. It's also confusing in that story, let me know if it is to u guys.
 
I just found it. Now search "Bruce Wayne's Family Tree", on the first page go to "Hero-My World" It says stuff about Carli Connors being nine years younger than Helena. I think you could add it to ur story Spidey-Bat. It might say her mother, I just skimmed the story, I'll go back and let ya know.
 
Hero-My World
It all starts with Selina Kyle and Bruce Wayne:

Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle fell in love and had a child named Helena Kyle, Bruce didn't know he had a daughter so Selina raised Helena by herself. When Helena was sixteen, Selina Kyle was murdered and Helena went to live with Bruce Wayne's protege, Barbara Gordon. Barbara Gordon raised Helena until she was of age and they formed a team of superheroes. When Helena was 23, Barbara adopted another orphan, Dinah Lance.

Months, almost a year later, Barbara married a man named Adam Harrison, a metahuman like Helena and Dinah, Adam Harrison and Barbara had a nice loving relationship until Adam was murdered by an old enemy. Little did Helena, Barbara, and Dinah know that supernatural forces came into play. Adam returned as a guardian angel called an Annex, who would help people with paranormal powers. Because Barbara was paralyzed, she couldn't have any children, but Adam's bosses, called the Elders, healed her and impregnated her with a son.

When Barbara was pregnant, Bruce Wayne sent young Carli Connors to Helena Kyle. Carli Connors was Helena's half sister on her father's side, about nine years younger than Helena. I cut out stuff that didn't relate to Helena or Carli.
 
I still didn't find anything about Carli, but I found 2 stories that might interest ppl.
Go to yahoo, not sure about google, Search "Bruce Wayne's Family", and go to "Scions of the dark knight". Another one is Genom Corporation: The SMILE Project. These stories may not be on the first page when u search 4 them, but if not they are on the second or 3rd. I didn't read all of Genom Corp., but I'll see if Carli is mentioned. It's also confusing in that story, let me know if it is to u guys. I know I already posted this, so ignore it. It may confuse you, because I pushed a wrong button(or 2 or 3) and it reposted it. Sorry 4 the inconvience(think I spelt it right?)
 
Scions of the Dark Knight:

An Expansion of the Wayne Family Tree

by C. Richard Davies.

II: Dick Grayson

The facts of Dick Grayson's parentage have been told elsewhere; this article has nothing to add to it but the author's belief that Wayne was unaware of his relationship to young Dick at the time of the Grayson murders. It is the author's conviction that if Bruce had known that he had a son at that time, nothing would have stopped him from acknowledging Dick as his child and adopting him -- not the shame the revelation of the affair would have brought on his family name, not the legal difficulties, perhaps not even *****' wishes.

As this did not happen, it does not seem likely that Bruce realized that Dick was his own son until after younger man was grown, if then. Dick remained a teenager in the comics for nearly thirty years after his introduction; in the real world, however, he grew to manhood and went off to college in 1949, exactly as Superman & Batman: Generations portrayed him.

And it is at that point we will momentarily leave him.

III: Bruce Wayne Jr.

Bruce Wayne Jr. was born in early 1950 to Bruce Wayne Sr. and and his first wife, Kathy Kane. And that fact requires elaboration.

Kathy Kane was a cousin to Bruce Wayne, a somewhat closer cousin -- no pun intended -- than their mutual kinsman, Bob Kane. (She was the granddaughter of Bruce's maternal grandfather's younger brother.) Independently wealthy, she decided to pursue a life of thrills by imitating the Bat-Man as Batwoman. Eventually, the two crimefighters admitted to a mutual attraction for each other and were married.

The adventures of Batwoman (and her protege Betty Kane, aka Batgirl, of whom more later) were not revealed until 1956, and the fact that she married Wayne was not revealed until 1960 -- and then it was only stated in an "imaginary story" alleged to be set in the future. (Shades of May-Day Parker.) The reasons for this obfuscation are fairly obvious. While Bruce Wayne enjoyed the confusion that the comic book accounts of his life provoked in the criminal underworld, he would not for one second have permitted any truths about his home life to be published where someone could deduce his actual existence. He had lost his parents to violent crime; he woud do whatever he had to do to protect his wife and son.



Kathy Kane entered the lives of Batman and Robin in 1946, nearly ten years before her first published appearance. And by the time the stories about her were written and drawn, the marriage was over, having ended in divorce. As noted above, Bruce wanted to protect his family from the violence of the world; as noted above that, Kathy wanted a life of thrills and danger. After she recovered from childbirth, it was her intention to return to action as Batwoman, alongside the Bat-Man, but Bruce refused to let her. What from his point of view were perfectly reasonable precautions seemed like shackles to her. Ultimately, he was forced to let her go; she may well have threatened to expose him if he did not grant her a divorce.

Bruce Wayne Jr. was probably only three or four years old when his parents separated. It's possible that the lack of an abiding love interest in his later life was due to a mild distrust of all women that he developed after his mother essentially abandoned him. But that may be too Freudian an analysis of the dynamics of this most Jungian family.

In any event, by 1956 the publishers of Batman's adventures were informed that it was now acceptible for them to include a Batwoman character in them, and provided with information about her. This permission did not come because Wayne wished his ex-wife injury (at least not consciously) but because he could use the stories to further obscure the truth: that he had married a second time.

IV: Helena Wayne

In 1955, while Bruce Wayne was attending the wedding of a former fiancee (one of several, both fiancees and weddings) he was subjected to a psychoactive gas designed by Johnathan Crane, a criminal who sometimes went by the alias "the Scarecrow". (However, Crane probably did not wear a costume which made him resemble a scarecrow; a descendant of Ichabod Crane, he would probably have been called a scarecrow even if he wasn't obsessed with fear and its effects.)

The attack caused Wayne to begin to have hallucinations in which he was alone in the world; this was perhaps his greatest fear, one which had its roots in early childhood and which had been exacerbated ty the end of his marriage. In his delusional state, he could not perceive his allies; his attempts to contact Grayson, Clark Kent and other members of the Justice Society went unanswered, at least from his perspective. Thus, he was forced to turn to an enemy: Selina Kyle, the Catwoman.

At that point, Ms. Kyle was jailed, but because Wayne regarded her as the most moral of his criminal nemeses (for she had never killed, to his knowledge) he used his connections to secure her early release in exchange for her help in defeating the Scarecrow. And she did help him, not only to face his enemy but to admit the real sources of his fears. There had always been an attraction between the two of them, as well ...

Selina was not driven by the competitive desires which drove Kathy from Wayne; her career and "adventures" had been motivated by the necessity of survival after she fled her abusive first marriage for a life in the underworld of the Middle East.[2] In contrast to that, a secure (if somewhat constrained) life as the wife of a billionaire must have seemed less like the promise of heaven on Earth than its fulfilment. She was a kind and good stepmother to her husband's eldest son, and when her daughter Helena was born in 1957, her happiness seemed complete.

And so it would remain for many years.

V: Rick Grayson

Dick Grayson was not an idle student, but he wasn't an ideal student either. He was compelled to hide his considerable intellectual and physical gifts from the world in order to minimize the possibility that someone might identify him as the fictional character whose name he bore. Furthermore, he was forced to pull many all-nighters during his college years in order to fight crime or weird menaces, instead of using those all-nighters to do homework and write papers.


Instead, what seems to have happened is that, like his father(-figure), Dick Grayson seems to have stumbled into a brief and unhappy marriage with a member of the extended Kane family.

Betty Kane was the daughter of Kathy Kane's younger brother, who had married the grand-daughter of one Aaron Stemple of Seattle, Washington. Betty's older brother William[3] became one of the first agents of the Bureau of Investigation (the predessor of the FBI), but Betty was drawn into crimefighting in a much more direct manner when her aunt drafted her to serve as Batgirl, the "Robin" to her "Batman".

There had been some junior-league romance between Robin and Batgirl, but as Betty had not yet been thirteen years old when she met, nothing actually came of it. However, when as adults they met again, something sparked between them. Perhaps it was nothing more than the inevitable outcome of the repressed, almost monastic life that Dick had led up to this point. Whatever it was, it was enough to get them into bed together, and enough to lead them to the offices of a justice of the peace, and enough to keep them together for nine months ... but not enough to hold them together for much longer than that.

Richard Grayson Jr. (or Rick Grayson, as he was usually called) was largely raised by his mother, with few visits from his father. As Dick knew that he was eventually going to take on the identity of the Batman, and that his life would be dangerous not only for him but for anyone close to him, it seemed like the best thing.

VI: Bruce Wayne, Sr. (continued)

By 1959, Wayne had been fighting crime for a quarter of a century. He had long since avenged his parents, through discovering the identity of their killer and accidentally (or perhaps not...) setting in motion events that caused Joe Chill to be killed, and similarly destroying the crime boss who had hired Chill to do the deed. He was in his early forties, and retirement beckoned.

Dick became the second Batman, and Bruce Jr. soon followed his lead as the second Robin. Bruce Sr. watched their activities, either as a team, independently, or as members of the Justice League (in Dick's case) and the original group of Titans (Bruce was a founding member), and felt no regrets.

He had a wife who loved him, and a daughter to raise. He had all that he could ask for of life.

VII: Dick Grayson (continued)

In 1969, according to the second issue of Superman & Batman: Generations, the second Batman and Robin team once again battled the criminal known as Joker Junior. By the end of this adventure, this criminal was revealed to be the original Joker in disguise ... who managed to kill Robin. What had actually happened was that his latest trap claimed the life of Batman II (Dick Grayson), but in order to preserve the myth of the Batman's invincibility, Bruce Wayne Jr. switched costumes with his partner's corpse.



But ignoring the morbidity of the situation, one fact screams for attention: in one storyline, Robin lived. This leads the author to the conclusion, based on the additional facts that an adult Dick Grayson continued to play a role in accounts of the Batman after the story in which he was supposed to have died, that he was still alive when Bruce Wayne Jr. brought him out of the chamber of death, having switched costumes.

Grayson was critically injured, probably comatose, his life dangling by the proverbial thread. But he also received the best medical care in the world (possibly even exposure to Amazon medical technology) and began a long, slow process of recovery. And Bruce Wayne Jr. had to assume the mantle of the Batman himself, much earlier than anyone had planned. Nor was this the last tragedy which would be visited on him during his career under the hood of the Batman.

By 1975, Dick had almost recovered from his crippling injuries, and it is possible that Bruce Jr. offered to return the Batman identity to him. But if so, Dick declined the offer. His reasons are obvious: while he had acquired a certain additional longevity in the 1940s, along with the most of the Justice Society and certain of their associates, his injuries had taken several years off his lifespan ... and he was already older than Bruce Sr. had been when he retired.

So, wearing a slightly more mature (and not coincidentally armored) costume, Dick became Robin again and served as a member of the Justice Society. He also finally finished his law degree, and served as a United States Ambassador.

VIII: Bruce Wayne, Sr. (continued)

In 1976, Selina Wayne was contacted by a member of her old gang, one "Silky" Cernak, who blackmailed her into returning to crime with photographic evidence that she had murdered a police officer. (This photograph was apparently doctored.) During the robbery which ensued, Selina Wayne was fatally shot and died in her husband's arms.

It was devastating -- not only to Bruce Wayne Sr, but also to his children. Selina had been part of the glue that bound the small family together, and with her absence everything began to fall apart, beginning with Bruce Wayne's complete withdrawal from public life. Comparisons to his distant relative, Charles Foster Kane, abounded.

But after that there was nothing. His friends and relations made attempts to discover his wherabouts and activities, but half-hearted ones at best; they all knew that if a man of Wayne's talents does not desire to be found, he won't be found.

There were speculations that Wayne had begun a new war on crime, beginning with the Si-Fan. (His son had battled a minor agent of the Lord of Strange Deaths, one Ra's al-Ghul, and Wayne could not have been unaware of the career of Shang-Chi around this very time.) Others suggested other situations; he had been captured, and his DNA extracted to provide the basis for genetically enhanced super-soldiers. Some even speculated that he had perished at the hands of some young criminal unaware of who he was killing, even as his parents had died. But this seems unlikely; predators usually have a better sense of their prey than to attack something which preys on them.

IX: Helena Wayne (continued)

Helena's reaction to her mother's death was precisely what one might expect of a scion of the Dark Knight -- she sought to avenge. Yet another part of her motives must have been to justify her mother's criminal past to herself. Why else, one wonders, would she choose the nomme de guerre of the Huntress -- a name used by an earlier costumed figure who had been both crimefighter and criminal at various times?

Alone, she brought "Silky" Cernak to justice. She worked with her older brother on a few cases, even fighting a younger, more violent Catwoman who apparently had no relation to her mother.[4] She also joined the Justice Society, around the same time that Supergirl did.

In an attempt to maintain the fiction that the Justice Society and the Justice League existed on two different, parallel worlds, the authors of the Justice Society stories portrayed Supergirl as "Power Girl" -- using a different outfit and an even more different personality. In fact, the agressive personality which Kara exhibited as Power Girl was probably more due to her anger that she had never been invited to join the Justice League, of which her cousin was a member. Helena and Kara became very close friends during this period. Very close friends. But I digress.

In any event, Helena Wayne served as an honored member of the Justice Society (and also assisted its offshoot, Infinity Incorporated) for the rest of her life.

XI: Rick Grayson (continued)

Rick Grayson became a private investigator. During one of his first cases, around 1980, he was contacted by a mysterious being called Raven who guided him to form a new group of Titans (the original team having disbanded after most of its members grew up.) Despite his insecurities, which at one point led him to become a member of a religious cult known as the Church of Brother Blood, he proved to be a capable leader for this team, which he led under the alias "Nightwing".

It would seem that one of his descendants, Amanda Stemple Grayson, eventually married Ambassador Spock of the planet Vulcan. Ironically, this may not have been the first time that a member of the Grayson clan wed an extraterrestrial, for it has been alleged that Rick Grayson married the Tamaranian princess known as Starfire, and had a child who went by the name Nightstar Grayson. Whether this woman was the ancestor of Amanda Grayson, and indeed much else of Rick Grayson's life and career, remains uncertain at this time.

XII: Dick Grayson and Helena Wayne (continued)

Shortly after his fiftieth birthday, Dick Grayson decided to retire as Robin, and gave his blessing for Bruce Wayne Jr.'s protege Jason Todd to take the role. It was to be one of the last times he spoke civilly with his old friend.

In July of 1984, during the so-called Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dick Grayson and Helena Wayne were killed battling extradimensional invaders. There was not enough left of either of them, nor of Kole, the young member of Rick Grayson's Titans who had come to their assistance, to bury.

XIII: Bruce Wayne Jr. (continued)

In fairly quick succession, his step-mother was murdered, his father vanished, and his brother (in spirit, if not knowingly in blood) and sister were killed. There are also reports which indicated that his biological mother may also have been killed in the mid-seventies. Bruce Wayne Sr. and Dick Grayson were defined by their tragedies, but not over-powered by them. The same could not, unfortunately be said for Bruce Wayne Jr. He did what many people have done after suffering such repeated tragedies, and closed himself off from further relationships, driving away his remaining friends in order to protect them ... and to protect himself from the pain of losing them.

He'd left the Justice League in 1982 because he felt that they weren't doing enough, and formed a team of Outsiders. Shortly after the Crisis, he abandoned them when they chose to go their own way rather than his. Shortly after that, he severed his relationship with Jason Todd during the dark god Darkseid's attempt to destroy Earth's heroes, and bluntly refused any role in the new Justice League formed at that time.[5]

XIV: And Beyond

Time passed. Bruce (with his father gone, and surely dead by now, no one called him Junior anymore) let control over his family fortune and the companies it supported pass into more corrupt hands.

Time passed. As cyberpunk authors had warned, governments continued to let the powers entrusted to them by their citizens slip into the control of multinational corporations who owed allegiance to no one.

Time passed. Some heroes rolled with these changes, as shown by Justice Incorporated, the newest incarnation of the Justice Society and League. But Bruce never even answered their call.

Time passed.

And a young man named Terry McGinnis met Bruce Wayne, and another scion of the Dark Knight was born ...

Footnotes:
Also, I disliked the idea that Bruce Jr.'s mother was Selina Kyle, since as I point out, when Batman II and Robin II appeared in the original stories, Robin II's mother was Batwoman. So I came up with a workaround that would also let me have Selina Kyle as Bruce's eventual wife.

The "draft" Batman mentioned here was brought to my attention in Bob Kane's obituary.
I know this is long, but I also had to edit alot of this timeline because It was too long to fit in here, and I was asked to shorten it. Hope it all makes sense.
 
Well, I think that was the point.....seeing Bruce like that. Struggling to open a bottle of pills, it shows his mortality.....he could choose to escape it, or fend it off.....but he accepts his flaws and he accepts his mortality. Wheareas, Ra's.......he fears mortality. He fears age........he fears death. He may not even know it......but he is. Bruce, is not. In the end, Bruce is really not afraid.

Terry seemed kinda lost.......he seems to be at a cross road in his life, perhaps the same one that Bruce was at Terry's age.......and maybe the same one that Dick once was at.........and Terry understood what path he MUST choose. He figures out that his destiny is to carry the mantle of the Bat........so, we can only imagine what happens when he truly accepts it.

Besides, your right IzzyJG99........Terry has potential. I mean, he is Bruce's son.....so who's to say that he can't develop to be as smart as Bruce?

I think Timm and Dini did make a great move......because now, they've won over a lot of Bat-fans....and I'm sure fans would enjoy it being adpated to the comics. To be sort of, Later in contiuity.......to explore the DCU's future.....and when I say future, I mean like 60 years in the future....not 10 or 20 years.
 
If Batman Beyond ever does get "re-made" as a comic series, I'd want them to come up with a less-convoluted explanation for Terry being Bruce's son, if they even have that. But I think that the father/son relationship they had was alot more meaningful when they were simply strangers that met by accident, and eventually the bond formed between them. Making them be genetically father and son really undermines the point of the show IMO.
 
ColdPlayer said:
btw, when and how the helll did jason todd come back?
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It was sometime after HUSH when Riddler stole his body. He was ressurected and is now the Red Hood. How he was ressurected, we don't know yet. Since this isn't Marvel, we don't have a long list of possibilities.
 
Yeah.....I'm still waiting out to see how it plays out. I doubt it's really him.....but we'll have to wait and see if we're getting our jock pulled on by DC.

I think making it convulted was the only way it would work.....plus adding the destiny thing too......I think they just made Batman Beyond a good thing by making him his son. Otherwise, it might have gone down in history as a marketing ploy (Spider-Man in a Bat-suit!!).....instead, with the help of Batman Beyond: ROTJ as well, they gave the character meaning......and made him worthwile I think. So, he'll hold a place in Bat-fans minds......instead of a sick part of their stomach.

I do agree though.....if they ever decide to do a "FUTURE CONTINUITY" series.....they might have to do things a little differently in how he and Bruce are Father and Son.....like maybe making him the son of Talia as well or something.......i dunno.......would be fun to work on as a creator.
 
I like the idea of Talia being his mother, btw, does Bruce ever meet Ibn zuuku whatever? What happens?
 
Am I the only one who thinks that Terry being Bruce's son was a bad move? I think it really undermines what made their relationship meaningful. Terry and Bruce were complete strangers that met by coincidence, and through a course of events Terry ended up becoming Batman, and he eventually formed a father/son bond with Bruce. That was one of my favorite aspects of the show. And maybe it's just me, but I think that attributing this connection to being biological is shallow. Does this mean Terry would never have become Batman, and they never would have shared the father/son relationship if they weren't genetic father and son? I think that the concept of them being genetically related is very shallow.

Some people talk as if the genetic link makes the show better, but I think that this is because people are thinking shallowly. If it takes a genetic relationship for people to accept the father/son dynamic illustrated between Bruce and Terry, then that means that the point of the original show was in vain.
 
You've posted that elsewhere. I don't think it ruins the dynamic at all. If we found out during Beyond's run, then it would have.
 
The reason I think it DOES make Terry and Bruce's relationship better is because of Robin.

Think of it......how many kids has Bruce take under his wing? In the comics, it's more than 4.......in the cartoons it was 2 Robins.

I don't know about you.......but I NEEDED more reason for Terry to be good enough to hold the mantle of the Bat. He's origins felt like a watered down version of the previous protege's........only he got lucky b/c there was no Batman. With Terry, I needed a reason to like him.......and honestly, I didn't like him at all. Especially when B:TAS (or Gotham Knights) got cancelled.......I didn't like Batman Beyond. I still watched it.....but I didn't like it.

I've actually begun to like him more after the show got cancelled, his appearances in JLU and the ROTJ.......I thought they were great. Now, we have a reason why he SHOULD be Batman. He's Bruce's son........ton of potential there.
 
How much older is Terry from his brother Matt? I think it's seven years, but I could be wrong.
 
Well, Matt had to be at most 8 years old.....maybe 9. And Terry was 15....so it's all about estimates. My guess is, Terry must have been about 25 years old in that "EPILOGUE" episode....and Matt must be in his late teens.
 
Why is it that on Wikipedia, it says Bruce has no children, just his parents and an uncle? Terry, Ibn, Dick, and he probably has others.
 
Batman the 6th said:
Why is it that on Wikipedia, it says Bruce has no children, just his parents and an uncle? Terry, Ibn, Dick, and he probably has others.
Click to expand...
Batman does not have any biological children at the moment. NONE AT ALL. There is no Bruce Jr. No Carli Conners. Etc. Terry and Matt McGuiness are his children in the DC ANIMATED Universe, not the DC COMICS Universe.

Helena Wayne was the daughter of the deceased Batman of Earth-2. Earth-2 was wiped out during the Crisis of Infinite Earths. She is no longer part of DC continuity and never will be.

Batman however has adopted Dick Grayson (who has no children either) and Jason Todd as his sons. He is currently the legal guardian of Tim Drake, but it is currently unknown if he adopted him like the other Robins.

Ibn al Xu'fasch is being put back into continuity and most likely as the son of Batman and Talia.

Helena Dubrova, the daughter of Catwoman, currently has an unknown father. The main suspects are Batman and Slam Bradley Jr.
 
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