Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[O'Haire]

I am curious though, does Angel go back to spiking his hair in Season 5 soon? Because two episodes in and it looks so dumb.

I didn't mind the look. But yes it eventually goes back to normal.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Nice tribute trailer. has anyone else watched the seasonal trailers on yt? they are truly epic.

 

[Hush]

Yeah David really isn't in great shape in this season but its wierd because in Bones he is like cut out of granite. I like this season so far though, the episode with The Reaper was awesome though.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ya he really managed to deage himself when he landed Bones. He basically looked like his S2 Angel self again.

 

[O'Haire]

Wasn't David having major knee problem around season 5?

 

[Primal Slayer]

I know he injured his knee but I dont know if it was a major problem for him.

 

[Hush]

Interesting, I think he may have just gotten Lazy. I mean you play the same character for 8 years you might get a tad lazy.

 

[O'Haire]

In 2004, Boreanaz underwent reconstructive surgery on the anterior cruciate ligament of his left knee, a result of a running injury he suffered in high school that was not fully corrected at that time. His recovery did not prevent Angel production from continuing, but did limit his mobility and physical activities in several episodes, including his directorial debut, "Soul Purpose".

Think he might of mentioned this on the commentary for Soul Purpose.

 

[Hush]

Hmm very interesting, your Google-fu must be better than mine. I looked but that explains it. Kinda glad it happened after the Destiny fight scene with Spike thought because that was hands down the best fight scene of either series for me.

 

[Hush]

HOLY **** TOM LENK SHOWED UP! NO ****ING WAY! That episode, Enraged, was ****ing incredible and prolly one of the best of both series. Why did The WB cancel this? Oh yeah, mental ******ation.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

HOLY **** TOM LENK SHOWED UP! NO ****ING WAY! That episode, Enraged, was ****ing incredible and prolly one of the best of both series. Why did The WB cancel this? Oh yeah, mental ******ation.

Been away for a while but great to see everyone else has been enjoying rewatching

In no particular order;
I think you mean Enraged and yes it's a great ep. But much like the equally excellent Reaper it's incredibly gory, amazed what they got away with. Plus naked Spike. David piles on the weight in season 5 but he is injured and we have Spike for the himbo factor

Cordy/Connor, hmmmmm. I don't see it as incest, they're not blood relatives. Fine with a girl/boy wanting a father/mother figure as long as they don't actually want their father/mother.

Orpheus is the best ep EVER! Faith and Willow in the same ep is stupendous! 'Waiting in the Wings' is also great and a star is born with Summer Glau in her first ever role. I remember attending a convention where Joss appeared via a video monitor and had the words 'Kill Wesley' on the whiteboard behind him so it may have been on the cards all along.

SANCTUARY
The Good;
Just when you think it can't get any better, Buffy arrives and all is good with the world.
The Bad;
All still fantastic
Best line:
NEARLY-Detective (to Kate) Everyone knows you've gone all Scully
Kate; Mulder's the believer, Scully's the skeptic
Detective; Scully's the chick, right?
but the winner, one of my favourites which I use all the time is;
Buffy; "A cry for help is when you shout 'Help, help!' in a loud voice"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
For all those afraid of needles avoid the syringe scene. Faith's daydream about killing Angel
Apocalypses: 4
Angel Cliches
Damsel in distress; 15,
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; the popcorn scene. Plus Wes calling Angel on his decision to protect Faith.
In disguise; 3
DB get's his shirt off; yep, in the shower again 6
Cordy's tattoo;3
Cheap Angel;
3
Fang Gang in bondage: Angel in cuffs and possibly Faith too
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 9
Angel: 10
Wes: 4
Doyle; 1

Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel: 3 demons so 11 vamps, 9 and 1/2 demons, 2 humans.
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 1/2 a demon
Kate; 3 vamps
According to Boo's stats Faith has killed 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans. Add another demon to the list here.

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
25
Recurring characters killed;
2;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,
Packing heat;
Wes; 2
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:
Faith let's slip that she's bedded Buffy's new beau, Riley Finn. Which is news to Angel! Does Cordy not keep touch with things in Sunnydale or did she just not want to tell him?
Captain Subtext;
Buffy refers to Faith's 'pouty lips and heaving bosom', interesting she thinks of her in that way? The rooftop scene feels riven with hidden passions. Buffy refers to Riley saying she trust him. Heading for a fall again. The Watcher's Council refer to the insult 'ponce' again.
Know the face, different character; 2
Parking garages;
4,
Guantanamo Bay;
Kate plans to throw Angel into a cell exposed to the rising sun.
Buffy characters on Angel; 11
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla
Questions and observations;
What exactly does Angel do with the Watcher's team? Surely Kate must lock them up for turning the streets of LA into a bulletfest? Nice to see that Wes and Buffy are now on good terms, unfortunately this probably marks the nadir of the Buffy/Angel romance and the Kate/Angel relationship. Jelly doughnut's again, someone in the writing staff must have a thing for them. Buffy has the worst timing ever when walking in on Faith and Angel. How does Giles find out about Faith? Sources in the Watcher's council or do Wes or Cordy phone Sunnydale. Good acting by Wes, you really think he might have sided with the Watchers for a moment. How can Wes and Buffy just walk into the police station?
Marks out of 10; 10/10 just great, stunning

 

[Hush]

Lorenzo I'm not rewatching. haha This is my first time EVER watching both shows.

 

[flickchick85]

Which one do you prefer, Hush?

 

[Primal Slayer]

HOLY **** TOM LENK SHOWED UP! NO ****ING WAY! That episode, Enraged, was ****ing incredible and prolly one of the best of both series. Why did The WB cancel this? Oh yeah, mental ******ation.

Originally it was suppose to be Dawn but Michelle was busy.

 

[Hush]

Which one do you prefer, Hush?

Angel so far but I really enjoyed Buffy because I just loved Xander.

Originally it was suppose to be Dawn but Michelle was busy.

Yeah thank God because I hate Dawn with a fiery passion.

 

[flickchick85]

Angel so far but I really enjoyed Buffy because I just loved Xander.

Awesome, so we're basically total Buffy-verse opposites: I preferred Buffy the show (just barely), but hated Xander. t:

 

[Hush]

See he is pretty much me and I relate wit the guy sooooo much. Angel I love but I enjoy the stories of Buffy more.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, my general viewpoint was, Angel had better arcs, while Buffy had better individual episodes.

 

[Sawyer]

I'd agree with that. You really cant even judge season 4 of Angel on an episode-by-episode basis. That thing was an entire 22 episode arc.

 

[flickchick85]

I'd agree with that. You really cant even judge season 4 of Angel on an episode-by-episode basis. That thing was an entire 22 episode arc.

ITA, and conversely to that, Buffy's S4 had one if its worst arcs, but judging it on individual episodes (like Hush, This Year's Girl/Who Are You? and Restless, my personal favorite episode of the whole series), it was pretty great. But yeah, Angel's S4 often made me feel like I was watching a season of 24 or something, lol.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Lorenzo I'm not rewatching. haha This is my first time EVER watching both shows.

You lucky, lucky thing!

I don't think it was supposed to be Dawn in damaged, it was always supposed to be Andrew, it was supposed to be Dawn in The Girl in Question but Michelle was off giving a terrific performance as pop diva Celeste in Six Foot Under. And leave off Dawn, she's the greatest (certainly Maxim thinks so) And yeah, Xander rocks. I agree though whilst Buffy has the best individual eps Angel has the better arcs

PRIMEVAL
The Good;
The Scoobies get back together and have a stonking great battle. What's not to love?
The Bad;
Adam's mingun arm looks pretty stupid.
Best line;
Adam; 'You can't last much longer'
Possessed Buffy 'We can. We are FOREVER'
Women good/men bad;
The female power of the Slayer overcomes the male power of Adam.
Jeez!;
Spike stubbing his cigarette in Forrest's eye. Riley cuts the chip out of his own chest.
Kinky dinky;
Xander sleeps naked, Anya doesn't think that the unemployment office will accept him nude (really depends what job he's going for? the fabulous ladies nightclub?)
Calling Captain Subtext;
Buffy and Willow have great big girly hug and tell one another they love them, awww! The writer/director also comment on the Willow/Xander/Buffy sandwich. Oddly Xander wants Giles to join in.
Guantanamo Bay;
The Initiative ends (at least in it's familar form and the cover-up begins).
Scoobies to the ER;
Riley seems to recover from his wounds fast although he does have Walsh's drugs in him.
Where's Dawn?
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 5,
Is this really an apocalypse? A couple of hundred Adams running around would be a bad thing but not the end of the world?
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 16
Giles: 10
Cordy: 6
Xander: 8
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 2
Wes: 1

Kills: Buffy kills Adam and Riley kills demon-Forrest
Buffy: 79 vamps, 28 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 5 vamps, 1 demon
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 4 vamps
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 5 vamps, 2 zombies, ½ a demon, ½ a demon
Anya: ½ a demon
Riley; 12 vamps + 7 demons
The end of Adam (thanks Christ!) but he crops up again in the comics

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 2

Alternate scoobies: Buffy as the uber-Slayer
Buffy: 7
Giles: 3
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 3

Recurring characters killed: 10-bye-bye Colonel McNamara and Forrest
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh
Total killed;
I figure about 80 dead in the series so far?

Total number of scoobies: 7
Giles, Xander, Willow, Buffy, Anya, Tara, Riley

Xander demon magnet: 5
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?)

Scoobies shot: Adam has a Predator style minigun but it's no match for Buffy's magic. The Colonel orders his men to get to the armoury which seems sensible. Xander zaps at least one demon with his taser.
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny?
Buffy: 3; Angel, Parker, Riley
Joyce: 1;Giles, possibly Ted
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Questions and observations;
The end of the Initiative and it's a great battle, rather reminds me of The Spy Who Love Me. I don't think the season 4 storyline was all that good, the show still finding it's feet outside High School and having lost CC and Angel but still the best thing on TV.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, good enough ep but glad this wasn't the season finale

 

[Hush]

ITA, and conversely to that, Buffy's S4 had one if its worst arcs, but judging it on individual episodes (like Hush, This Year's Girl/Who Are You? and Restless, my personal favorite episode of the whole series), it was pretty great. But yeah, Angel's S4 often made me feel like I was watching a season of 24 or something, lol.

What really sucks is that Angel really is doing good with one-off episodes in Season 5 and unfortunately this is the end. I mean you have an Arc but you could watch all these episodes by themselves and just enjoy them, it really got back to the basics of Angel Inc only with Angel Inc being Wolfram and Hart.

 

[ComicChick]

the first buffy episode I ever saw was the graduation one and i watched sporadically from that point on til shows end. when i finish with angel i think i'll go back and watch the whole series of Buffy to see which i like best

 

[Hush]

I think that was my first episode of Buffy ever TOO! We are connected!

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I think most are agreed that seasons 2&3 are the series highpoints so you have lots to look forward to. I think Angel season 5 has some excellent standalones (Reaper, You're Welcome, Smile Time etc) but overall not as strong as some WAR ZONE

The Good;

Charlie Gunn, yay! David Nabbit too and some nice humour at the brothel (love the characterisation of the Madam, hard as nails but extremely streetwise as to the sensitive realities of her business)

The Bad;

Not much, good story although the slum allegory is laid on a bit thick.

Best line:

Gunn; "I don't need advice from some middle class white dude who's dead"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?

A nasty incestuous vibe between Gunn and his vamped-sister.

Apocalypses: 4

Angel Cliches

Damsel in distress; 15, in this case it's the male characters who need help

Inverting the Hollywood cliche; We expect a patrician speech from Angel to Gunn at the end. Instead Angel actually asks Gunn for his help in future, again recognising talent when he sees it. CC and Wes rescue Angel who forgets to use his mobile phone to get himself out of the meatlocker.

In disguise; 4

DB get's his shirt off; yep, Angel getting patched up so 7

Cordy's tattoo;3

Cheap Angel; A paying client for AI, Cordy must be so happy. Angel also wants to 'see the cheque'

4

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 8
Wes: 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 9
Angel: 10
Wes: 4
Doyle; 1


Kills:
Cordy: 3 vamps, 1½ demons
Angel: 3 vamps and 1 demon for Angel so 4 demons so 14 vamps, 10 and 1/2 demons, 2 humans.
Doyle; 1 vamp

Wes; 1/2 a demon

Kate; 3 vamps

Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.

Gunn;

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang: no but Angel refers to himself as Angelus to intimidate the other vamps
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed: 2 of Gunn's people killed.

27

Recurring characters killed;

2;


Total number of Angel Investigations: Gunn a long way from joining yet
3, Angel and Cordy and Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 8,

Packing heat; no but one of Gunn's guys uses a flamethrowers which Wes will employ later to good effect.

Wes; 2

Doyle; 1

Angel; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 2 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast
Angel: 1;Buffy

Kinky dinky:

Angel's entire visit to Madame Dorians and the David Mabbet stuff is just SOOO out there, especially the tail gag (this was the era of Madame Alex/Hedi Fleiss etc). That said of all the demon girls am I the only one to find Lina the only attractive one? One of the demons appears to be one of the girls from She, her Ko well and truly intact (hope she's still not burning people)Cordelia is once again tempted to prostitute herself to a wealthy man as she was in the pilot. Cordy says that David's name feels 'Good in her mouth'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I don't think even Faith would say that?)


Captain Subtext;

Not so subtle racial and social hints, even the vamps bemoan the sort of people they now have to feed on.

Know the face, different character; 2

Parking garages;

4,

Guantanamo Bay;

Angel once again tortures a vamp

Buffy characters on Angel; 11

Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla

Questions and observations;

Gunn's strategy seems ok to me, taking the fight to the enemy rather than waiting until they come to you. By contrast Angel lets the vamps go at the end, to kill others? The vamps attacking Gunn's headquarters resemble the aliens in the War of the Worlds series. Both Angel and Gunn have killed their sisters.

Marks out of 10; 6/10, an ok ep but one that's hard to watch at times, largely significant for the introduction of Gunn (and his truck) and his motivations.
of it's predecessors