The Amazing Spider-Man Can Spider-Man 4 fix Spider-Man 3?

DACMAN

The Spidey Fan
Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
11,274
Reaction score
1
Points
31
Raimi really dropped the ball when he made the Sandman Uncle Ben's killer. We've heard that the same guy that played the burglar is coming back. Do you think it's possible to revisit his death AGAIN and fix what Raimi screwed up?
 
Just leave the Uncle Ben history behind, as well as the Osborns (Green Goblins), that chapter is closed. Sandman might return as part of the Sinister Six, i've no problem with that but forget what happened before. New trilogy, new start based on other villains and other problems concerning Peter Parker.
 
No, it can't be fixed. The damage is done. And retconning it would make the whole story of revenge and forgiveness with Sandman pointless. And they're not going to do that.

I reckon the killer returning in SM-4 is going to be something along the lines of a Mysterio illusion or dream sequence.
 
Right. But what would be the point in even revisiting the guy when he didn't kill uncle Ben?
 
He was a large part of the whole scenario, of course.
 
890 million dollars...they ain't fixing shiz. :o
 
Raimi really dropped the ball when he made the Sandman Uncle Ben's killer. We've heard that the same guy that played the burglar is coming back. Do you think it's possible to revisit his death AGAIN and fix what Raimi screwed up?

forget that, if you have read what david's script called for you would hang your head in shame. I have no faith anymore in these so called writers. Yeah, they can write but they dont know jack ***** about the material.
 
What did it call for? You've read the script for 4?
 
Right. But what would be the point in even revisiting the guy when he didn't kill uncle Ben?


I still try to reason it was his fault Uncle Ben died, Guilty by Association , I guess.
 
What did it call for? You've read the script for 4?

Check out the spider-man 4 script thread for more.

first off the spelling and grammar of his script of pretty bad but its a first draft. Here is my problem with the script.

# 1 Remember what happened in spiderman 2 ? When mj found out who spiderman was, and he revealed to doc ock who he was as well to reason with him to stop the machine ? Same thing happens in David's Script. Gwen stacy comes out of the cafe and a truck is about to hit her, since peter isnt in costume he has no choice but to swing in and save her. Thats where she realizes that peter is spider-man. During the end of the movie, Spider-Man asks for doctor connors help because aunt may is dying of radiation isotope poisoning. When he asks why he should help him peter responds that its because he is one of his students at ESU. Then connors figures out that its peter parker. In the comics, the only stacy that figured out who spider-man is was cap george stacy. Peter wanted to tell gwen so bad but, when she started blaming spider-man for what happened to her dad, he decided it wasnt best to say anything to her at all. The way David did it in his script was not only cheesy but way too predictable and very close to how mj found out who spider-man was which was by accident. I can imagine the complaints coming out of not only fan's mouth but others who have watched the original films and compare it to the second film. We need something different and fresh. Something that will have fans saying, you know this makes sense and it sucks so bad that peter cant tell gwen who he really is because of the conflict he already has with mary jane and the problems with his double life.

# 2 As aunt may is in the hospital bed and peter thinks she is asleep one again, he tells her everything and says he is sorry and blames himself for what happened to her. She ends up waking up and says I forgive you.

# 3 Roderick kingsley moving into the osborns mansion and suddenly discovering the osborns liar ? thats very weak and I doubt anyone wants to see hobgoblin for the sequel.

# 4 Making mary jane once again into a I3itch and the excuse as to why she is breaking it off with peter is kinda weak and not really convincing.

# 5 J jonah jamesons lines and scenes were very weak and not funny at all. Plus peter being upgraded to an editor and using spider-man as pictures even if its selling out his character ?

# 6 I am so happy that the lizard is being used, but he speaks ? Kinda hard to imagine. Plus, while your reading the script you dont feel for the character of doc connors or that there is a human being inside that beast. I just dont feel the conflict at all and thats why in my version of the script I am using Kravens last hunt storyline. Instead of using vermin, I am substituting him with the lizard.
 
also the fact that the fights scenes between spider-man and the lizard are not that great. He calls the lizard fang face ? MAJOR cheesy lines might I add. Thats something spider-man would call morbius. Plus when JJ is trying to come up with a name for the lizard, killer croc is mentioned which we all know is a DC character. This is how bad it is to get an award winning writer to write a script for a super hero film yet he knows NOTHING of the character nor bothers to research. Why else do you think that Gary Ross is re-writing the script ? It seems like David just watched all of the other films and made his own mind up.

The lizard isnt like any of the other spider-man villians. He is deadly and todd mcfarlane brought out the best in him. The problem is that marvel and Company thought that what he was doing with the character was too dark. If you want to make spider-man 4 successful then go with that. You should have seen what spidey looked like after battling with the lizard. Dont water the character down like they did with venom in spider-man 3 which is sadly what it looks like they are doing. Yet, they dont understand that fans and people were really upset with the last movie and just because it made the most dont mean it will happen again. I am happy that they want the emotional drama in the film but you dont get a broadway writer to pull that one off especially with the lizard storyline involved and fight scenes. I dont blame sam raimi at all for whatever happens because he is a good guy and he certainly wants to do whats best for everyone. Its just that as far as having full creative control over a movie isnt exactly true. The heart of the movie comes from what the actually writer does with it. If I was in hollywood I would rather have people who are seriously experienced in those comic book characters then take a chance with someone no matter how experienced they are dont have a clue about the characters or history. You cant just take those characters and read a little about them then make up your own story. It's the very same reason as to why fans scream for reboot or remakes.

Now I want to ask you all something ?

Would you rather have an award winning writer who does not have a clue about the characters or storylines write the script ?

Or someone who is so dedicated to the characters that if you ask them a question they are like a human encyclopedia when it comes to that ?

There are alot of comic book fans out there and I am not saying that all comic book fans should write the scripts. Only those who are experienced in the particular character that they are doing. For example, If anyone asked me to write a script for a fantastic four movie, I would say no because I never read those comics and no matter how badly i research it I would not be able to capture what another fan who is experienced in that area would be able to do.
 
I have seen alot of scripts based on movies including all of the spider-man ones and when I compare it to fans who have written those scripts. There is no doubt in my mind that those fans make those writers look like morons. Its sad because these fans take thier own time to do these things yet hollywood pays these writers millions for something that should be used to wipe your behind with and call it a day.

Heck, I would even prefer the original writers from the comics to write the damn scripts. If you had todd mcfarlane write the script with the lizard or venom involved it would totally without a doubt surpass the dark knight.

Speaking of the dark knight, the reason it was a success is because both the director and his bro wrote the damn thing and that my friends is creative control !
 
also the fact that the fights scenes between spider-man and the lizard are not that great. He calls the lizard fang face ? MAJOR cheesy lines might I add. Thats something spider-man would call morbius. Plus when JJ is trying to come up with a name for the lizard, killer croc is mentioned which we all know is a DC character. This is how bad it is to get an award winning writer to write a script for a super hero film yet he knows NOTHING of the character nor bothers to research. Why else do you think that Gary Ross is re-writing the script ? It seems like David just watched all of the other films and made his own mind up.

The lizard isnt like any of the other spider-man villians. He is deadly and todd mcfarlane brought out the best in him. The problem is that marvel and Company thought that what he was doing with the character was too dark. If you want to make spider-man 4 successful then go with that. You should have seen what spidey looked like after battling with the lizard. Dont water the character down like they did with venom in spider-man 3 which is sadly what it looks like they are doing. Yet, they dont understand that fans and people were really upset with the last movie and just because it made the most dont mean it will happen again. I am happy that they want the emotional drama in the film but you dont get a broadway writer to pull that one off especially with the lizard storyline involved and fight scenes. I dont blame sam raimi at all for whatever happens because he is a good guy and he certainly wants to do whats best for everyone. Its just that as far as having full creative control over a movie isnt exactly true. The heart of the movie comes from what the actually writer does with it. If I was in hollywood I would rather have people who are seriously experienced in those comic book characters then take a chance with someone no matter how experienced they are dont have a clue about the characters or history. You cant just take those characters and read a little about them then make up your own story. It's the very same reason as to why fans scream for reboot or remakes.

Now I want to ask you all something ?

Would you rather have an award winning writer who does not have a clue about the characters or storylines write the script ?

Or someone who is so dedicated to the characters that if you ask them a question they are like a human encyclopedia when it comes to that ?

There are alot of comic book fans out there and I am not saying that all comic book fans should write the scripts. Only those who are experienced in the particular character that they are doing. For example, If anyone asked me to write a script for a fantastic four movie, I would say no because I never read those comics and no matter how badly i research it I would not be able to capture what another fan who is experienced in that area would be able to do.
It sounds like Sony have a mess on their hands with the new writers. I loved the animalistic and deadly nature that McFarlane gave The Lizard, that's what I want on screen, without mind control of course--I want an evil deadly Lizard. Ironic, with all of the characters in Marvel's universe why would they name Killer Croc? I told you that the Daily Bugle/JJJ in these films are absolutely horrible, who's going to take The Lizard seriously if he's mentioned as a freakin' joke. My guess is, Sony is only interested in selling Spidey's merchandising to little kids, period.

I can't stress enough that the main problems with the Spider-Man films are that they're too juvenile, corny and cheesy, to the point where the movies remains limited, in terms of what you can do with the characters, stories and villains. Not to mention, none of the writers or director understand Spider-Man.

No WRITER who comes in contact with the Spider-Man films thinks in terms of a complex, action packed and smartly written film, where it's geared toward older teens and up, but has kids loving it like Lord of the Rings. Every writer they bring in thinks that Spider-Man is nothing more than a little kids property--where they can easily cash in on a big check. That's why they're all writing it like a Hanna Montanna movie. In the hands of Sony it's impossible to get a really great film with the quality level of Dark Knight, Lord of the Rings or Terminator 2. Which is a shame.
 
Last edited:
I think that an extended edition of Spider-Man 3 could fix the film. Spider-Man 3.1 should not just be an extended edition, but a director's cut with some altered scenes. If everything that was made for the film was in there the film would be much better.
 
Speaking of the dark knight, the reason it was a success is because both the director and his bro wrote the damn thing and that my friends is creative control !

You do realize that both Sam Raimi and his brother Ivan wrote the script for Spider-Man 3? That logic doesn't work for everything....
 
I don't think anything needs to specifically be "fixed". I liked Spider-Man 3 personally. It isn't my favorite of the series, and I do see its flaws, but on the whole it could have been worse. It's nowhere NEAR Batman and Robin levels of bad. I do agree that Spider-Man 4 needs to be a better film. It needs to be a darker film while not staining the character himself. Spidey isn't Bats. He isn't a dark character at his core, but the situations he finds himself if can be. And that's the sort of thing we need. Another thing is Mary Jane needs to not be captured by the villain. Sam should have used the original idea of Gwen being the one captured by Venom. It would have made more sense, since Gwen was Eddie's girlfriend (in his mind, at least, if you've read the novelization. Spidey 3 would have been better had it been closer to that). Sure it's suspenseful to have the girl Peter loves be in peril, but three times in a row is too much. Try something different. Something new. In this day in age where intelligent storytelling and movies with heart have been pushed aside for generic plotlines and cookie-cutter screenwriting, we need a change. I pray Sam has learned this and Spider-Man 4 blows everyone away like Spider-Man 1 and 2 did.
 
I don't think anything needs to specifically be "fixed". I liked Spider-Man 3 personally. It isn't my favorite of the series, and I do see its flaws, but on the whole it could have been worse. It's nowhere NEAR Batman and Robin levels of bad. I do agree that Spider-Man 4 needs to be a better film. It needs to be a darker film while not staining the character himself. Spidey isn't Bats. He isn't a dark character at his core, but the situations he finds himself if can be. And that's the sort of thing we need. Another thing is Mary Jane needs to not be captured by the villain. Sam should have used the original idea of Gwen being the one captured by Venom. It would have made more sense, since Gwen was Eddie's girlfriend (in his mind, at least, if you've read the novelization. Spidey 3 would have been better had it been closer to that). Sure it's suspenseful to have the girl Peter loves be in peril, but three times in a row is too much. Try something different. Something new. In this day in age where intelligent storytelling and movies with heart have been pushed aside for generic plotlines and cookie-cutter screenwriting, we need a change. I pray Sam has learned this and Spider-Man 4 blows everyone away like Spider-Man 1 and 2 did.


If BDH wasnt preggers at that time, you can be assured, it would be gwen needing the rescue. but i agree on everything that you said, cept SM3 was my fav. of the series.:woot::cwink:
 
No it was because Raimi felt "needed" to be changed because according to him it would have been more emotional to both Peter and Harry if it was MJ.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
201,164
Messages
21,908,495
Members
45,703
Latest member
BMD
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"