The Amazing Spider-Man Can Spider-Man 4 fix Spider-Man 3?

[bullets]

Now I'm confused. Gwen could of Been involved as well or at least something in there where Eddie/Venom threatens her.

 

[Eggyman]

I hope they don't do a retcon. Just leave it. The only thing that should be brought over from 3 is Harry's death, and everything else should be blissfully forgotten/not mentioned.

 

[Vis]

Forgotten?

You obviously don't know Sam Raimi very well. Oh, he's gonna bring back the memories...damn near all of them.

 

[Eggyman]

I don't know him at all - he just makes some films I like. You make it sound so exciting, Vis. Grainy flashbacks? If they want to retcon 3 then they have a lot more to do than just say sorry about Sandman being a nice guy who kills people because he has bad luck and doesn't want to hurt Spidey as he turns into a monster and squashes him with his big rock hand. They'd need to do a sh**load of stuff that they shouldn't even think about attempting. A SH**load, I swear. Best thing to do, just shake it off, pretend it was Dallas or something where Pete wakes up with a wet patch on his bed, crying because his girlfriend's a ****e and he can't afford any cupcakes.

Just ignore the whole sorry mess.

 

[Vis]

Oh he won't be fixing anything, he'll be pouring on more crap we don't like by re-visiting SM1, SM2 and SM3.

 

[Eggyman]

I think they should retcon the colour they painted the kitchen in the first one. It was simply ghastly.

 

[sPiDeRmAn2o29]

You do realize that both Sam Raimi and his brother Ivan wrote the script for Spider-Man 3? That logic doesn't work for everything....

Again you failed to do your research. I also spoke to sam myself ( when I was working as an actor on the set of spider-man 3 and not reading the BS on the internet just in case you want to pull the " how do you know... I thought so BS again " ) about this way when filming was being done. I dont care how talented you are... if your halfway done with the script with shooting starting in a few months and someone ( avi arad ) tells you well the fans want venom so give them venom. There is NO WAY IN HELL with that much pressure and an idea already in mind that you will be able to pull off a great story. He was NOT familiar or interested in Venom and is more of a fan of the classic villians.

You dont have to take my word for it, there is an article out there about this. For someone who says they have " sources " you seem to really be out of touch with whats going on lately or even in the past.

 

[Venom 1988]

Er...no, everyone knows that the Arad stepped in on his creative control and wanted Venom in the movie. I didn't fail to do anything, you're acting like that is some top secret info. I simply replied to your statement, where at the time it "seemed" that you did not know/realize that Raimi wrote the script for SM3. That's all, no need to over analyze a simple situation.

 

[david icke]

If they want to retcon 3 then they have a lot more to do than just say sorry about Sandman being a nice guy who kills people because he has bad luck and doesn't want to hurt Spidey as he turns into a monster and squashes him with his big rock hand.

Sandman was trying to kill Spider-man as Spider-man had tried to kill him, and as far as he knew this was still SM's plan as it was in revenge for a killing Sandman was responsible for. If Spider-man kills Sandman, Sandman can't get the money to save his daughter's life, so he has to kill Spidey.
But, he then witnesses Spider-man doing his upmost to save Venom who tried to kill him. He also witnesses the conversation concerning the black suit and how it changed him and Eddie. So Sandman puts 2 and 2 together and realises that Spider-man was not himself when he tried to kill him and that it's not his plan any longer. Sandman also reflects on the reason for his revenge and apologises and comes clean with what happened.
Spider-man accepts this as he himself is guilty of actually trying to murder as opposed to Sandman's somewhat accidental murder of Uncle Ben.

No mess there to clean up at all from the pov of character motivation. The pieces are all there, although in this case they're not the usual cut and dried bad guy/good guy dynamic of a superhero movie.
They succeeded somewhat in bringing in the plotline of a superhero turning to the dark side, and part of this was the superhero not being able to get high and mighty and judge the criminal as he was just as guilty.
That's teh thing about Spider-man3, sure it has the bad Butler scene(whcih could easily have been ignored or left out, Harry simply choosing to believe Pete's version of events), and some humourous scenes involving dancing. But these scenes seem to make people hate on the whole movie and miss the point of some of the more effective plotting. It gets far too much hate, whereas Spider-man2 gets far too much praise.

 

[DACMAN]

What really bugs me is the fact Eddie even knows about MJ. He thought Peter and Gwen were dating. And don't give me that "the symbiot told him" crap. They never say that in the movie. Which leaves the average movie goer confused.

Also the scene with Doc Connors and Peter and the alien. He's just like "don't get that stuff on you" instead of "WOW! A LIVING ALIEN! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING DISCOVERY IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!" Instead they're all just "wow, it seems to like you..."

 

[david icke]

What really bugs me is the fact Eddie even knows about MJ. He thought Peter and Gwen were dating. And don't give me that "the symbiot told him" crap. They never say that in the movie. Which leaves the average movie goer confused.

Ok, apart from the symbiote part, he works in the same workplace as Pete did. The audience could easliy assume that he knew a little of Pete's personal life from over hearing a conversation. Office gossip type of thing. He could just be assuming that Pete is a bit of a player and goes out with more than one women at a time if he feels like it.

Also the scene with Doc Connors and Peter and the alien. He's just like "don't get that stuff on you" instead of "WOW! A LIVING ALIEN! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING DISCOVERY IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!" Instead they're all just "wow, it seems to like you..."

Yeah, they could have used a bit of that in the scene. Even just a low key line instead of histronics, like 'We have to submit this for study to the blah blah institute.'
(edit: Also, just realized, I don't think Pete knew it was from another planet, he didn't see that it was from a meteorite, so they didn't know it was an alien life form. Still, they could've used a little line about sending it somewhere for study as it was a new lifeform they'd discovered.)
You could say the same kind of thing about Doc Ock's experiment in Spider-man2. That would be world wide news, there would be more of a fuss about it than there was. Also, would something like that be allowed to take place in a residential area, surely with what could go wrong they would be testing it in the desert, or under government watch.

 

[The Chris]

No it was because Raimi felt "needed" to be changed because according to him it would have been more emotional to both Peter and Harry if it was MJ.

And in all honesty I agree with that, Yeah it was repetitive but it makes more sense. There's more in it for Harry.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think SM3 can be fixed. In a lot of ways it seemed the end of the francise or atrilogy i.e The Peter/Harry conflict was resolved, Closure to Uncle Ben's Death, Peter and MJ breaking up but seemingly getting back together. Now I didn't like SM3 ,but it does serve as a bookend to the first film , albeit a flawed one.

The real question for me is , if they have a good story to tell or a reason to continue with this version of the francise beyond just the money factor.

 

[david icke]

I don't think SM3 can be fixed. In a lot of ways it seemed the end of the francise or atrilogy i.e The Peter/Harry conflict was resolved, Closure to Uncle Ben's Death, Peter and MJ breaking up but seemingly getting back together. Now I didn't like SM3 ,but it does serve as a bookend to the first film , albeit a flawed one.

The only thing about Spider-man 3 that was a major mistake imo, was messing around with the simple and effective Uncle Ben story of Spider-man lore.
Yeah, you can still think of the guy as being guilty by association, but it still makes a simple legendary parable unnecesarily complicated.

This was the main point of what may be attempted to be 'fixed' by Papajohn coming back, but I think that aspect is done and dusted and 'unfixable'.

The real question for me is , if they have a good story to tell or a reason to continue with this version of the francise beyond just the money factor.

Well, creatively Raimi may not have been satisfied with being told what to do with the story in 3. with Venom it wasn't just including a villan but having to include the whole black suit story. So he will have his own reasons for returning, we may see a movie that's more along the lines of what SM3 would have been if he'd been left to his own devices.
I imagine what Raimi will see as the main point to be 'fixed' is his reputation, which I think took an unecessary bashing. Ok, there were elements that were wonky, but I'd say that of all all 3 films, they all have their pros and cons.
3 was crowded with plots though, if Venom had been any other villan there would have been room for more character development, as was the symbiote took up a lot of room.

 

[DACMAN]

The real question for me is , if they have a good story to tell or a reason to continue with this version of the francise beyond just the money factor.

Well the fact we have almost 50 years of history to use in a film says they have reason to continue. It is like James Bond or Star Trek. There are dozens of films waiting to be made based on this guy.

 

[snakeinthegear]

Raimi really dropped the ball when he made the Sandman Uncle Ben's killer. We've heard that the same guy that played the burglar is coming back. Do you think it's possible to revisit his death AGAIN and fix what Raimi screwed up?

What?

The burglar's returning?

I really don't understand what's going on here. Raimi and the studio mentioned earlier that they want to take spider-man in a new direction, yet Raimi seems to be revisiting the tired stuff we've already seen in all 3 movies.

I don't want to see the urglar or see any references to Ben's death. Why does Raimi find it hard to move on? This is why I wanted a new director at the very least.

Additionally, trying to fix SM3 is a waste of time. They should just focus on making the best film they can with sm4.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

What really bugs me is the fact Eddie even knows about MJ. He thought Peter and Gwen were dating. And don't give me that "the symbiot told him" crap. They never say that in the movie. Which leaves the average movie goer confused.

Also the scene with Doc Connors and Peter and the alien. He's just like "don't get that stuff on you" instead of "WOW! A LIVING ALIEN! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING DISCOVERY IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!" Instead they're all just "wow, it seems to like you..."

actually, it's really a plot hole. it's explained in the (what should have been filmed) comic counterpart, "THE BLACK" in which the symbiote gives him his memories.

 

[Aparna]

I seriously wonder where you heard that Raimi's going to bring back those guys... because I highly doubt they'd make the mistake of doing that.

 

[omid17]

What really bugs me is the fact Eddie even knows about MJ. He thought Peter and Gwen were dating. And don't give me that "the symbiot told him" crap. They never say that in the movie. Which leaves the average movie goer confused.

Also the scene with Doc Connors and Peter and the alien. He's just like "don't get that stuff on you" instead of "WOW! A LIVING ALIEN! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING DISCOVERY IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY!" Instead they're all just "wow, it seems to like you..."

nothing was worse when Gwen was about to fall from a building, Gwens Dad " what she doing up there?"

 

[Frodo]

Well the fact we have almost 50 years of history to use in a film says they have reason to continue. It is like James Bond or Star Trek. There are dozens of films waiting to be made based on this guy.

True, but I'd rather see one or two good Spiderman films then a bunch of mediocre to bad ones. There are lots of villans left to use but it doesn't mean they should be used or could sustain a film i.e Sandman. When I questioned whether this version should this continue I was refering to the Raimi francise. Even Bond and Trek rebooted their francises after the ideas got stale and ran their course. The question I was Basically posing was if Raimi and Co had any good fresh idea's for Spiderman 4 regardless of the quality of
Sm3.

 

[david icke]

nothing was worse when Gwen was about to fall from a building, Gwens Dad " what she doing up there?"

Oh yeah, no excuse for that piece of directing. Captain Stacey seems more concerned she might have fell for some bozo rather than she's about to fall from a building.

RE: Brock knowing about MJ. I imagine they didn't bother going into the whole explanation of the suit sharing Pete's memory with Brock as there was another explanation at hand that would suffice, that Pete and Brock worked in the same office and would be privy to some personal information about each other.
(edit: I mean, it's pretty fast paced with Venom's intro, if they'd taken the time to have him in a scene where he's all 'I can read Parker's memories...' etc, it could have been a little hokey to say the least, I can see why they left it out for that type of Venom intro, if it had been a longer appearance for Venom they could have worked it out instead of trying to sqeeze it in. But, i still think it's easily explained by more menial means.)
I liked the little nod they gave to the fact that he did know what goes on in Pete's head, 'My spider-sense is tingling...know what I mean tiger?'

 

[TheVileOne]

In the comics it was because symbiote bonded with Brock and Brock knew everything that the symbiote did.

Oh well. I just say move on. Forgive and move on.

Let's face it. Spider-man comics have had some downright AWFUL stories. They existed and you get past them and still read Spider-man where some ridiculous stuff happened. It happened, acknowledge it, and move on. I say don't say NONE OF THIS DUMB **** EVER HAPPENED. The dumb **** happened, we're sorry and we are moving past that.

 

[david icke]

In the comics it was because symbiote bonded with Brock and Brock knew everything that the symbiote did.

Yeah, it was such a rushed intro and appearance that they didn't have the moment to do that explanation without it seeming forced or hokey I think.

Oh well. I just say move on. Forgive and move on.

Let's face it. Spider-man comics have had some downright AWFUL stories. They existed and you get past them and still read Spider-man where some ridiculous stuff happened. It happened, acknowledge it, and move on. I say don't say NONE OF THIS DUMB **** EVER HAPPENED. The dumb **** happened, we're sorry and we are moving past that.

Yeah, this is good advice for anyone who was mortified by SM3. I liked it but of course it was nowhere as good as it could have been.

It's a shame as Raimi had the 1st two under his belt and would have learned from all his experiences there, only to have Avi arad force a villan and storyline on him. That's why I think there's a good chance that SM4 will be his best one, all the experience and no-one to get in his way. This time he has to make his definitive SM movie, no doubt, this will probably be his last chance to get it as right as he can.

 

[Vis]

It's a shame as Raimi had the 1st two under his belt and would have learned from all his experiences there, only to have Avi arad force a villan and storyline on him. That's why I think there's a good chance that SM4 will be his best one, all the experience and no-one to get in his way. This time he has to make his definitive SM movie, no doubt, this will probably be his last chance to get it as right as he can.

So that means if SM4 sucks hard, there will be no excuses not to fully blame Sam Raimi, eh?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Forgotten?

You obviously don't know Sam Raimi very well. Oh, he's gonna bring back the memories...damn near all of them.

How do you know this, Vis?