Infinity War Captain America|Steve Rogers - Chris Evans

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm with you; Cap has generally been more on the rise in terms of appeal and importance, though not necessarily in a manner where you can say that he eclipses Tony or that Tony eclipsed him. Tony is still kind of the heart of the MCU, while Steve's more the backbone and conscience.

Tony gets the paternal relationship with Peter Parker, and gets the more emotional and arguably somewhat wilder and more mercurial portrayal in general: creating Ultron, backing the Sokovia Accords when he was arguably the biggest rebel of the group originally, fighting Cap and Bucky out of anger. Cap, on the other hand, is the more stolid and convicted character, with perhaps a bit less emotional dynamism from film to film, but with his willpower and wisdom constantly emphasized: uncovering Hydra's infiltration, almost navigating his way out of Civil War, leading the Secret Avengers and allying with Black Panther.

Their storyline's in Infinity War kind if emphasize this:

Spoiler

Tony is stuck with a slapdash alliance of heroes where even though he's a major player he's not really the leader (Quill and Strange both match him for command), with emotional turmoil Emphasized thanks to Quill's sorrow leading to a mistake and a more drawn out tragic death for Spider-Man in Tony's arms, while Cap leads a very cohesive and focused alliance with T'Challa as his equal, and with his determination emphasized again, and in constrast to Tony getting the more drawn out tragedy, Steve gets some more intellectual horror moments and the last line.

They're nuanced equals.

Nice summation in the spoiler tag.

 

[warhorse78]

Was the rift about jealousy at all though? Seems it was about a sense of betrayal.

Since the very first Avengers, they have been hinting that Tony has issues with Steve, and it was really made evident when Tony pricked Bruce with the electric probe, and Steve chewed him out for it, and as he left the room to go look for hydra weapons, Tony gets snarky by saying "this is the guy my father bragged about" or something to that extent. Later on, when they are all having that argument because of the tesserract, Tony tells Steve that everything that is special about him came in a bottle. I don't know how much clearer than that line there that they can convey he's had an inferiority complex towards Steve. The same hostility could be felt in Avengers 2, and then Civil War happened, and the incidents that happened in that movie resulted with Tony not being able to hold back his feelings any longer. The fact Rhodes seems to have forgave Steve is even more evidence that Tony's emotions towards Steve are unwarranted.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Since the very first Avengers, they have been hinting that Tony has issues with Steve, and it was really made evident when Tony pricked Bruce with the electric probe, and Steve chewed him out for it, and as he left the room to go look for hydra weapons, Tony gets snarky by saying "this is the guy my father bragged about" or something to that extent. Later on, when they are all having that argument because of the tesserract, Tony tells Steve that everything that is special about him came in a bottle. I don't know how much clearer than that line there that they can convey he's had an inferiority complex towards Steve. The same hostility could be felt in Avengers 2, and then Civil War happened, and the incidents that happened in that movie resulted with Tony not being able to hold back his feelings any longer. The fact Rhodes seems to have forgave Steve is even more evidence that Tony's emotions towards Steve are unwarranted.

I think most of the deep issues were settled by the end of the first team film, though yeah, they are very different people so they are gonna clash but I'm sorry, I don't see jealousy in the mix at all.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I'm almost certain that Rhodes and Steve [BLACKOUT] are getting along [/BLACKOUT] due to the fact that the former's parents weren't killed by brainwashed WS.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Also... Fate of half the life in the universe and all that.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

That too. My bad.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[KevTravels]

I figured Rhodes forgave Cap simply because it's been a few years and he needed Cap's help. He was all alone at the Avengers HQ.

I wish we would have gotten a line of dialogue where maybe Rhodey was asking about Tony's whereabouts or mentioning to Ross how he was all there is left of the Avengers. And then Cap walks in.

 

[KevTravels]

Also both were military men. I'm sure Cap was a bit of a hero in Rhodes eyes. At least early on.

 

[shadowboxxx]

Since the very first Avengers, they have been hinting that Tony has issues with Steve, and it was really made evident when Tony pricked Bruce with the electric probe, and Steve chewed him out for it, and as he left the room to go look for hydra weapons, Tony gets snarky by saying "this is the guy my father bragged about" or something to that extent. Later on, when they are all having that argument because of the tesserract, Tony tells Steve that everything that is special about him came in a bottle. I don't know how much clearer than that line there that they can convey he's had an inferiority complex towards Steve. The same hostility could be felt in Avengers 2, and then Civil War happened, and the incidents that happened in that movie resulted with Tony not being able to hold back his feelings any longer. The fact Rhodes seems to have forgave Steve is even more evidence that Tony's emotions towards Steve are unwarranted.

You didnt realize that they were controlled/influenced by the mind stone at that point?

Remember Steve telling Tony "get your suit" cause he wanted to fight him?

When have you ever known Steve to look for a fight?

Thats not who they are.

Also, nothing that happens in CW has to do with jealousy one way or another.

 

[shadowboxxx]

I figured Rhodes forgave Cap simply because it's been a few years and he needed Cap's help. He was all alone at the Avengers HQ.

I wish we would have gotten a line of dialogue where maybe Rhodey was asking about Tony's whereabouts or mentioning to Ross how he was all there is left of the Avengers. And then Cap walks in.

I wish they would have thrown a line about Cap and the others being happy to see Rhodes alive and well, or being sorry for what happened to him. Its like no one cares what happened to Rhodes in CW and the rehab he had to go through lol.

 

[The Caped Knight]

What's your favorite suit?

 

[Tg11]

It will take a lot for Tony to forgive Steve because he knew what Bucky did and protected him

 

[Tg11]

Favorite suit of Cap's well for me is his Nomad suit

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Eyes up.

Stay sharp.

 

[marcvader]

I'll go with the one just to the right of the "Nomad" suit.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I like the AoU costume most.

 

[AverageMan]

Either AoU or CW.
Not counting Nomad as technically, he's not Captain America at that point.

 

[nickelette424]

I think that Tony being jealous of Steve has been an underlying subtext to their relationship throughout the MCU. It's one of the best examples of Tony's "daddy issues". Howard loved and bragged about Steve, but never really showed Tony much affection. And while Loki was messing with them in Avengers, to me it read more as it just heightened what was beneath the surface for everyone. Since then, they have obviously forged a more genuine respect and friendship, but that issue is still under the surface. In Civil War when they are talking at the UN, a somewhat friendly conversation (considering the circumstances) has a bit of a tonal change when Steve makes a comment about Howard. Tony's response of, "oh you and my father knew each other, I've only heard that like 1000 times. God, I hated you" highlights the issue. While it wasn't at the forefront of their relationship, it was still there. And I also think it makes Steve not telling Tony about his parents sting more. While it was a one way fight, I always got the impression that Steve was one of the people he battled for his father's attention and to have Steve choose to protect the person that murdered him over telling Tony likely poured a whole container of salt in an old, not completely healed, wound.

 

[harlequinade]

oh, IW look is just the best :P

 

[warhorse78]

You didnt realize that they were controlled/influenced by the mind stone at that point?

Remember Steve telling Tony "get your suit" cause he wanted to fight him?

When have you ever known Steve to look for a fight?

Thats not who they are.

Also, nothing that happens in CW has to do with jealousy one way or another.

Their arguing continued on in AOU, especially showcased by the wood cutting scene. Its obvious Howard thought highly of StevecRogers, and Tony made the comment about he heard it from his father how great Steve was a million times. If you can't see that Tony was jealous of the relationship Steve had with Howard that Tony didn't, the we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[shadowboxxx]

Their arguing continued on in AOU, especially showcased by the wood cutting scene. Its obvious Howard thought highly of StevecRogers, and Tony made the comment about he heard it from his father how great Steve was a million times. If you can't see that Tony was jealous of the relationship Steve had with Howard that Tony didn't, the we will have to agree to disagree.

All due respect, sticking to what I said, if you can find something that happened in CW that had to do with jealousy, please name it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

All due respect, sticking to what I said, if you can find something that happened in CW that had to do with jealousy, please name it.

In CW Tony did make a remark about "Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth." He also said "Oh really? You two knew each other? He never mentioned that. Maybe only a thousand times. God, I hated you."

These remarks make me think there is a jealousy there. Emphasize the word "perfect" in the first quote, and why would he hate Cap because his dad talked about him constantly? It's because his father never showed respect for Tony when Howard was alive, but he adored Captain America, this perfect man. So I think for Tony, Cap represents this symbol of what he could never be, and thus why his father never respected him (in Tony's eyes).

 

[Frodo]

In CW Tony did make a remark about "Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth." He also said "Oh really? You two knew each other? He never mentioned that. Maybe only a thousand times. God, I hated you."

These remarks make me think there is a jealousy there. Emphasize the word "perfect" in the first quote, and why would he hate Cap because his dad talked about him constantly? It's because his father never showed respect for Tony when Howard was alive, but he adored Captain America, this perfect man. So I think for Tony, Cap represents this symbol of what he could never be, and thus why his father never respected him (in Tony's eyes).

That's a really interesting observation. I gotta say, I never looked at the Steve and Tony dynamic like that before.

In Tony's eyes, Its almost a sibling rivalry dynamic with Steve being the "good son" and Tony being the "screw up".

I always looked at it as two guys, of two different generations, and outlooks, butting heads , but it never picked up on the jealousy or envious angle of it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That's a really interesting observation. I gotta say, I never looked at the Steve and Tony dynamic like that before.

In Tony's eyes, Its almost a sibling rivalry dynamic with Steve being the "good son" and Tony being the "screw up".

I always looked at it as two guys, of two different generations, and outlooks, butting heads , but it never picked up on the jealousy or envious angle of it.

It very much is. This is why Tony was a jerk to Cap from day 1, LOL! Tony even admits to himself that Cap is a very pleasant person within that same scene, but all the years of his father, in Tony's own words, never saying he loved him nor liked him are still very much there and Cap can be seen as a symbol of why.

Suffice to say that scene in CW is one of my favorite bits of character for both Steve and Tony in any of the films