Captain Marvel Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 9

[First Avenger]

I definately ship Carol and Thor.

 

[Web-Head]

 

[kvz5]

I “ship” them the way I shipped Steve and Natasha: the “they’re very sexy together and I won’t be mad if they hook up but I like them more as friends who bicker” kind of way.

 

[TheGDBatman]

I finally watched Captain Marvel and I thought it was a decent movie. I thought the Skrulls were great and Talos is my favourite character in this movie. I enjoyed Samuel L Jackson's performance in this movie as you could tell that Samuel L Jackson was having a lot of fun in this flick and Nick Fury being the comic relief in this movie was fine to me. Its great seeing Coulson in a Marvel film again.

Spoiler

But I hate the way Fury loses his eye, it so stupid and I'm annoyed that scene was played for laughs. It kinda ruins the mystery of this character

The twist wasn't all that shocking to me as I pretty much figrued it out at the beginning of the movie but I still liked it. I haven't really connected with Carol Danvers as I find her to be quite emotionally distant and she's just a sarcastic stoic warrior which isn't really appealing to me. The movie often tells the audience that she's too emotional but I never really got a sense of that and I wish the movie explored more on Carol's actual feelings or wishes.

Spoiler

At the beginning Yon-rogg was teaching Carol that she can't rely on her powers. She had to find that strength somewhere else. But instead of learning in the training scene she... blasts him. And in the end she does the same thing proving that she had no character growth which was disappointing to me

This movie wasn't for me but I'm happy for those that love this movie and the character herself. I have faith that the Russo brothers will make her more interesting and more likable in Endgame. Overall Captain Marvel was just 'meh'.

1000% agree with all of this. The movie was...fine....but I was hoping for more. I thought Brie did well in the role, and I'm hoping they improve with the next CM movie. Until then, we have Endgame to show us more of Captain Marvel.

I do feel like the visuals for the movie were a bit all over the place. Some shots were fantastic imo (like when Carol gets caught in the explosion of energy), but a lot of it felt sort of....bland.

I really wanted to like this movie more than I did. The post-credits scene has me pretty hyped up though!

 

[Havok83]

I wonder if they'll ever do the Rogue thing. Like, imagine if they introduce a teenage Rogue in phase 4 or 5 whenever they sneak the X-men in. By the time Rogue is an adult, in like phase 6 or 7, I imagine Brie Larson will be ready to leave the role. Rogue could be her sort-of successor, permanently absorbing Captain Marvel's powers after Captain Marvel sustains a mortal injury while defeating a super-powerful threat.

Although, I guess now that Captain Marvel is so OP, it would make Rogue really unbalanced on the X-men team. Unless they just give Rogue her own solo series of movies instead.

I hope not. She already went through that arc in this film. Obviously not the same story, but it hit many of the same beats

 

[kvz5]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I finally watched Captain Marvel and I thought it was a decent movie. I thought the Skrulls were great and Talos is my favourite character in this movie. I enjoyed Samuel L Jackson's performance in this movie as you could tell that Samuel L Jackson was having a lot of fun in this flick and Nick Fury being the comic relief in this movie was fine to me. Its great seeing Coulson in a Marvel film again.

Spoiler

But I hate the way Fury loses his eye, it so stupid and I'm annoyed that scene was played for laughs. It kinda ruins the mystery of this character

The twist wasn't all that shocking to me as I pretty much figrued it out at the beginning of the movie but I still liked it. I haven't really connected with Carol Danvers as I find her to be quite emotionally distant and she's just a sarcastic stoic warrior which isn't really appealing to me. The movie often tells the audience that she's too emotional but I never really got a sense of that and I wish the movie explored more on Carol's actual feelings or wishes.

Spoiler

At the beginning Yon-rogg was teaching Carol that she can't rely on her powers. She had to find that strength somewhere else. But instead of learning in the training scene she... blasts him. And in the end she does the same thing proving that she had no character growth which was disappointing to me

This movie wasn't for me but I'm happy for those that love this movie and the character herself. I have faith that the Russo brothers will make her more interesting and more likable in Endgame. Overall Captain Marvel was just 'meh'.

In regards to your take on the film in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Rogg's "instruction" to her was in fact gaslighting. This wasn't the case of "the student surpasses the master" stuff or "student finally learns the what the master was trying to teach them". No this isn't some kind of arc along those lines. Rogg told her to control her emotions out of fear she would learn who she really was and more importantly that she would be to powerful to control if she fully tapped into her abilities.

It's an arc that mirrors what MANY women experience in an abusive relationship. Rogg wants to keep her under control for the purpose of serving him and the Kree agenda. He has to make sure she doesn't know who she really is or what she can really do. It's totally valid as a hero's journey but it one we don't see too often. But it's in line with a lot of classic mythology. The hero is no good to the rest of the world if they don't know themselves. Only then can they self actualize and reach their fullest potential. If they allow themselves to be controlled by others then it's possible they themselves can be used to unethical ends and even become agents of injustice in the world.

The point of the last confrontation between Carol and Rogg is that he makes a calculated gamble that there might still be some gas in the tank of his FALSE mentor/student relationship with Carol. Her just smacking him down shows he's not in control of her in any way anymore. She has nothing to prove, no great emotional reward for overcoming him without her powers. Her power, her real potential is what he spent years denying her.

I think some fans should ask women in their lives who they are related to who've seen the movie if that part of the story resonated with them or echoed real world relationships they've had. You'd probably be surprised how many have experienced that in their dealings with men.

 

[THORin]

In regards to your take on the film in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Rogg's "instruction" to her was in fact gaslighting. This wasn't the case of "the student surpasses the master" stuff or "student finally learns the what the master was trying to teach them". No this isn't some kind of arc along those lines. Rogg told her to control her emotions out of fear she would learn who she really was and more importantly that she would be to powerful to control if she fully tapped into her abilities.

It's an arc that mirrors what MANY women experience in an abusive relationship. Rogg wants to keep her under control for the purpose of serving him and the Kree agenda. He has to make sure she doesn't know who she really is or what she can really do. It's totally valid as a hero's journey but it one we don't see too often. But it's in line with a lot of classic mythology. The hero is no good to the rest of the world if they don't know themselves. Only then can they self actualize and reach their fullest potential. If they allow themselves to be controlled by others then it's possible they themselves can be used to unethical ends and even become agents of injustice in the world.

The point of the last confrontation between Carol and Rogg is that he makes a calculated gamble that there might still be some gas in the tank of his FALSE mentor/student relationship with Carol. Her just smacking him down shows he's not in control of her in any way anymore. She has nothing to prove, no great emotional reward for overcoming him without her powers. Her power, her real potential is what he spent years denying her.

I think some fans should ask women in their lives who they are related to who've seen the movie if that part of the story resonated with them or echoed real world relationships they've had. You'd probably be surprised how many have experienced that in their dealings with men.

Whoah, this just got me really emotional and I don’t know why. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, @KRYPTON INC. , you have a way with words that is extraordinary.

 

[Patrick77]

That's very well though out, Krypton, I would add that...

Spoiler: Just an additional thought.

The control goes deeper than the personal relationship between the two. It also involves the Supreme Intelligence and apparently a mind wipe, because "-vers" cannot remember her life on earth initially.

So it's like a combination of social conditioning and an abusive relationship on top of that.

 

[flickchick85]

In regards to your take on the film in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Rogg's "instruction" to her was in fact gaslighting. This wasn't the case of "the student surpasses the master" stuff or "student finally learns the what the master was trying to teach them". No this isn't some kind of arc along those lines. Rogg told her to control her emotions out of fear she would learn who she really was and more importantly that she would be to powerful to control if she fully tapped into her abilities.

It's an arc that mirrors what MANY women experience in an abusive relationship. Rogg wants to keep her under control for the purpose of serving him and the Kree agenda. He has to make sure she doesn't know who she really is or what she can really do. It's totally valid as a hero's journey but it one we don't see too often. But it's in line with a lot of classic mythology. The hero is no good to the rest of the world if they don't know themselves. Only then can they self actualize and reach their fullest potential. If they allow themselves to be controlled by others then it's possible they themselves can be used to unethical ends and even become agents of injustice in the world.

The point of the last confrontation between Carol and Rogg is that he makes a calculated gamble that there might still be some gas in the tank of his FALSE mentor/student relationship with Carol. Her just smacking him down shows he's not in control of her in any way anymore. She has nothing to prove, no great emotional reward for overcoming him without her powers. Her power, her real potential is what he spent years denying her.

I think some fans should ask women in their lives who they are related to who've seen the movie if that part of the story resonated with them or echoed real world relationships they've had. You'd probably be surprised how many have experienced that in their dealings with men.

Times like this I wish we had a "love" button. Spot on.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Times like this I wish we had a "love" button. Spot on.

Thanks flick.

 

[flickchick85]

That's very well though out, Krypton, I would add that...

Spoiler: Just an additional thought.

The control goes deeper than the personal relationship between the two. It also involves the Supreme Intelligence and apparently a mind wipe, because "-vers" cannot remember her life on earth initially.

So it's like a combination of social conditioning and an abusive relationship on top of that.

And THAT aspect ties into the metaphor of

Spoiler

a woman breaking free of the patriarchal system (and yes, dare I say, even religion) that's designed from every angle to keep her down and from reaching her full potential.

The themes run strong and clear in this one. They just aren't as explicitly spelled out through the dialogue as they are in, say, Black Panther. But it's hardly the paper thin "girl power, yay!" That some seem to take it for.

 

[Patrick77]

There's probably something to be said about...

Spoiler

the parallels (and possibly contrasts?) between Carol's experience of abuse as a Kree, and her experiences on earth prior to her abduction and brainwashing by the Kree.

Her story in the movie is like a crossroads between two rigid, controlling systems, and the character eventually freeing herself from them both.

I'm not going to be able to do justice to what that might mean, especially not on the spur of the moment like this, but it's interesting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In regards to your take on the film in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Rogg's "instruction" to her was in fact gaslighting. This wasn't the case of "the student surpasses the master" stuff or "student finally learns the what the master was trying to teach them". No this isn't some kind of arc along those lines. Rogg told her to control her emotions out of fear she would learn who she really was and more importantly that she would be to powerful to control if she fully tapped into her abilities.

It's an arc that mirrors what MANY women experience in an abusive relationship. Rogg wants to keep her under control for the purpose of serving him and the Kree agenda. He has to make sure she doesn't know who she really is or what she can really do. It's totally valid as a hero's journey but it one we don't see too often. But it's in line with a lot of classic mythology. The hero is no good to the rest of the world if they don't know themselves. Only then can they self actualize and reach their fullest potential. If they allow themselves to be controlled by others then it's possible they themselves can be used to unethical ends and even become agents of injustice in the world.

The point of the last confrontation between Carol and Rogg is that he makes a calculated gamble that there might still be some gas in the tank of his FALSE mentor/student relationship with Carol. Her just smacking him down shows he's not in control of her in any way anymore. She has nothing to prove, no great emotional reward for overcoming him without her powers. Her power, her real potential is what he spent years denying her.

I think some fans should ask women in their lives who they are related to who've seen the movie if that part of the story resonated with them or echoed real world relationships they've had. You'd probably be surprised how many have experienced that in their dealings with men.

Give this man a medal, cause he gets it

 

[Abudefduf]

I haven't really connected with Carol Danvers as I find her to be quite emotionally distant and she's just a sarcastic stoic warrior which isn't really appealing to me.

That's also not how she is in the comics (when written well), but I guess expecting Marvel to let one of their female characters to be as goofy as the boys was too much.

 

[WhoMani]

That's also not how she is in the comics (when written well), but I guess expecting Marvel to let one of their female characters to be as goofy as the boys was too much.

I'm not saying she has to be goofy due to the fact Captain America isn't goofy or snarky but he's one of my fav of characters in the MCU. For me she's just missing "something" (not sure what it is) as she's the least interesting character in her own movie and I found it hard to connect with someone that keeps their emotions to themselves. But I'm happy that there are fans that enjoy this character and that CM is doing great in the Box Office.

 

[Abudefduf]

Well, I did want her to be goofy, just like she is in the comic run that allegedly inspired the movie. Instead she ended up being another serious Strong Female Character... she may not be as serious as the Wasp or Widow but it still isn't enough, in my opinion.

And yeah, I agree that the writing did her no favor.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I hope not. She already went through that arc in this film. Obviously not the same story, but it hit many of the same beats

Wait...huh? When did she go through an arc where she receives a mortal injury while fighting a superpowerful threat, and then passes down her powers to someone else? There were no super powerful threats in this movie at all, and the story was about Captain Marvel regaining her memories and learning to access her own powers, not sacrificing herself and then passing down her powers.

 

[Havok83]

Wait...huh? When did she go through an arc where she receives a mortal injury while fighting a superpowerful threat, and then passes down her powers to someone else? There were no super powerful threats in this movie at all, and the story was about Captain Marvel regaining her memories and learning to access her own powers, not sacrificing herself and then passing down her powers.

She was nerfed, lost her memories and went Binary. It played many of the same character beats after Rogue had absorbed her in a distilled format. You can show Rogue doing that but the aftermath is the same character arc Carol had in this film

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I don't know if it's the script or the direction or if Larson was miscast, but man this thing just didn't work for me personally. Felt like continuity porn.

 

[Web-Head]

Well, I did want her to be goofy, just like she is in the comic run that allegedly inspired the movie. Instead she ended up being another serious Strong Female Character... she may not be as serious as the Wasp or Widow but it still isn't enough, in my opinion.

And yeah, I agree that the writing did her no favor.

This is plenty goofy to me. Sure, she wasn't goofy throughout the film, but still had her moments.

Let's see how she's portrayed going forward; characters change. Thor was a completely different character in Ragnarok then in Thor: The dark world. Wasp is serious at times, but she still had laughs

 

[I Am The Knight]

And THAT aspect ties into the metaphor of

Spoiler

a woman breaking free of the patriarchal system (and yes, dare I say, even religion) that's designed from every angle to keep her down and from reaching her full potential.

The themes run strong and clear in this one. They just aren't as explicitly spelled out through the dialogue as they are in, say, Black Panther. But it's hardly the paper thin "girl power, yay!" That some seem to take it for.

Having finally seen the movie and reflecting on it...Very much agreed with the commentary that you point out. I was actually not sure if that kind of thing was going to make it into the movie, but it absolutely did and I thought it was handled in a way were many tropes and cliches were avoided. Heck, I found the film pretty darn inspirational.

 

[I Am The Knight]

In regards to your take on the film in the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Rogg's "instruction" to her was in fact gaslighting. This wasn't the case of "the student surpasses the master" stuff or "student finally learns the what the master was trying to teach them". No this isn't some kind of arc along those lines. Rogg told her to control her emotions out of fear she would learn who she really was and more importantly that she would be to powerful to control if she fully tapped into her abilities.

It's an arc that mirrors what MANY women experience in an abusive relationship. Rogg wants to keep her under control for the purpose of serving him and the Kree agenda. He has to make sure she doesn't know who she really is or what she can really do. It's totally valid as a hero's journey but it one we don't see too often. But it's in line with a lot of classic mythology. The hero is no good to the rest of the world if they don't know themselves. Only then can they self actualize and reach their fullest potential. If they allow themselves to be controlled by others then it's possible they themselves can be used to unethical ends and even become agents of injustice in the world.

The point of the last confrontation between Carol and Rogg is that he makes a calculated gamble that there might still be some gas in the tank of his FALSE mentor/student relationship with Carol. Her just smacking him down shows he's not in control of her in any way anymore. She has nothing to prove, no great emotional reward for overcoming him without her powers. Her power, her real potential is what he spent years denying her.

I think some fans should ask women in their lives who they are related to who've seen the movie if that part of the story resonated with them or echoed real world relationships they've had. You'd probably be surprised how many have experienced that in their dealings with men.

That is exactly it.

 

[Abudefduf]

This is plenty goofy to me. Sure, she wasn't goofy throughout the film, but still had her moments.

Let's see how she's portrayed going forward; characters change. Thor was a completely different character in Ragnarok then in Thor: The dark world. Wasp is serious at times, but she still had laughs

Yeah this scene was great. We need more of this and less snark.

The fact that they turned her into Fury's (the son, not the mother ) straight woman drives me nuts. Nick Fury, one of the most serious characters in the MCU, and he was given more funny moments than Carol Danvers.

Reminds me of what WB did with Batgirl and Batman in LEGO Batman. Hollywood, just freaking stop being scared of funny female characters. Let them be ridiculous.

 

[Web-Head]

Yeah this scene was great. We need more of this and less snark.

The fact that they turned her into Fury's (the son, not the mother ) straight woman drives me nuts. Nick Fury, one of the most serious characters in the MCU, and he was given more funny moments than Carol Danvers.

Reminds me of what WB did with Batgirl and Batman in LEGO Batman. Hollywood, just freaking stop being scared of funny female characters. Let them be ridiculous.

This I will agree with you on. Hopefully we see this side of Carol more in future appearances