Captain Marvel Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 9

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yeah this scene was great. We need more of this and less snark.

The fact that they turned her into Fury's (the son, not the mother ) straight woman drives me nuts. Nick Fury, one of the most serious characters in the MCU, and he was given more funny moments than Carol Danvers.

Reminds me of what WB did with Batgirl and Batman in LEGO Batman. Hollywood, just freaking stop being scared of funny female characters. Let them be ridiculous.

Totally agree on this. It is one of the reasons Shuri got a lot of attention in Black Panther. She's one of the few female characters in any of these films, whether it be MCU, DCEU, X-Men, or Sony, that actually does act that way. There were hints of that side of Carol's personality in CM, but I definitely want to see a lot more of it.

All the usual suspects would complain about the movie "having too many jokes" and "not being serious enough" but a lot of them will probably say that anyways. Some fans seem to want all CBMs to be Schindler's List.

 

[Mike5575]

I definately ship Carol and Thor.

Just in case anyone was wondering, people are already writing Carol/Thor fanfic.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Totally agree on this. It is one of the reasons Shuri got a lot of attention in Black Panther. She's one of the few female characters in any of these films, whether it be MCU, DCEU, X-Men, or Sony, that actually does act that way. There were hints of that side of Carol's personality in CM, but I definitely want to see a lot more of it.

All the usual suspects would complain about the movie "having too many jokes" and "not being serious enough" but a lot of them will probably say that anyways. Some fans seem to want all CBMs to be Schindler's List.

Agreed. I felt like Captain Marvel was less jokey than most MCU films, but even there even the hint of a joke riles some people anymore. Something being fun and light doesn't mean it lacks depth. While Thor: Ragnarok is a very heavily comedic movie, there is a lot of character development they do. It's just not in your face and subtle.

 

[Abudefduf]

I remember when years ago I compared Captain Marvel to Sailor Moon in this very forum. Turns out I'm not the only one who made that connection.

Totally agree on this. It is one of the reasons Shuri got a lot of attention in Black Panther. She's one of the few female characters in any of these films, whether it be MCU, DCEU, X-Men, or Sony, that actually does act that way. There were hints of that side of Carol's personality in CM, but I definitely want to see a lot more of it.

Yeah Shuri and Okoye are awesome... there's a reason why many people called them the show stealers of Black Panther. They were such a breath of fresh air after so many serious superheroines.

What's weird is that all Marvel needs to do to "fix" Carol Danvers is to allow Larson to play herself. Brie is funny and confident but also kind of a dork... Uh, that's quite literally DeConnick's Captain Marvel.

And that's why Larson was my top choice for the role, dammit.

 

[Web-Head]

Yeah Shuri and Okoye are awesome. It's not for no reason that many people called them the show stealers of Black Panther. They were a breath of fresh hair after so many serious superheroines.

What's weird is that all Marvel needs to do to "fix" Carol Danvers is to allow Larson to play herself. Brie is funny and confident but also kind of a dork... Uh, that's quite literally DeConnick's Captain Marvel.

And that's why Larson was my top choice for the role, dammit.

And I think that's part of the reason they cast her in the first place. I do think she'll be more goofy and fun in the sequel.

Spoiler

I think part of that started to show in the third act when she discovered who she was and was kicking butt

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

And I think that's part of the reason they cast her in the first place. I do think she'll be more goofy and fun in the sequel.

Spoiler

I think part of that started to show in the third act when she discovered who she was and was kicking butt

I am optimistic for that very reason. The film was about her discovering herself and she was starting to become more like the Carol Danvers we know and love towards the end of the movie.

 

[Web-Head]

I am optimistic for that very reason. The film was about her discovering herself and she was starting to become more like the Carol Danvers we know and love towards the end of the movie.

Yep, exactly. She had to discover who she was and what she was capable of before she could become Captain Marvel

 

[Mr. Peanut]

She was nerfed, lost her memories and went Binary. It played many of the same character beats after Rogue had absorbed her in a distilled format. You can show Rogue doing that but the aftermath is the same character arc Carol had in this film

That's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm talking about after Brie Larson wants to leave the role. She wouldn't be losing her memories, getting nerfed, and coming back as Binary, she would be dead, after defeating whatever phase 6, 7, or 8's equivalent of Thanos is (and by then she'll have actually earned the right to take down the big bad),

Then maybe they can follow it up with a solo movie starring this gal. I mean, they've got to start tapping into those X-women if they're going to fulfill Feige's promise of making the MCU at least 50% female.

 

[MrWayne]

Sooooooo am I the only one who was looking for Captain Marvels red, blue and gold Sash.... The one supposedly worn by Cull Obsidian in IW??

I was hoping we would get an Easter Egg about it.. Maybe in the next one.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm talking about after Brie Larson wants to leave the role. She wouldn't be losing her memories, getting nerfed, and coming back as Binary, she would be dead, after defeating whatever phase 6, 7, or 8's equivalent of Thanos is (and by then she'll have actually earned the right to take down the big bad),

Then maybe they can follow it up with a solo movie starring this gal. I mean, they've got to start tapping into those X-women if they're going to fulfill Feige's promise of making the MCU at least 50% female.

I'm really not optimistic about the chances of X-Men solo films. Maybe the odd one (like Wolverine) works that way, but for the most part they are all too similar to each other. They all get their powers the same way. They share the same basic supporting cast and villains. The majority have the same basic character arc (powers that they can't control, manifest in adolescence at a time of extreme stress, they become hated and shunned by the world at large, they meet up with Xavier/The X-Men that teaches them how to control their powers and how they should fight to protect those that hate and fear them, etc.). It would get old quick.

All the solos they've done so far have brought some unique feature to the MCU, whether it is science/technology (Iron Man), Eastern mystic arts (Doctor Strange), traditional old school action-spy thrillers (Cap), space opera (Guardians), old school mythological heroism (Thor), heist films (Ant-Man), etc. This has probably been a big reason why the Avengers that don't have solos so far, haven't gotten them.

 

[Patrick77]

Yep, exactly. She had to discover who she was and what she was capable of before she could become Captain Marvel

It certainly wouldn't have made sense for her to be her more quirky and extroverted self while under the control of the Kree.

We get flashes of it, but it's largely repressed. Or she has been trained to hide it, and no longer trust herself.

Spoiler

Maybe the movie could have showcased the emergence of that personality a little more than it did in the 3rd act. From memory, the movie relies pretty heavily on the powers and effects sequences to show the character breaking free, though we do get that one memorable scene with Yon-Rogg.

 

[WhoMani]

This is plenty goofy to me. Sure, she wasn't goofy throughout the film, but still had her moments.

Let's see how she's portrayed going forward; characters change. Thor was a completely different character in Ragnarok then in Thor: The dark world. Wasp is serious at times, but she still had laughs

I do hope they will show more of this side of Carol in future movies. She was mostly stoic (aka "strong female character") in this movie.

 

[Web-Head]

It certainly wouldn't have made sense for her to be her more quirky and extroverted self while under the control of the Kree.

We get flashes of it, but it's largely repressed. Or she has been trained to hide it, and no longer trust herself.

Spoiler

Maybe the movie could have showcased the emergence of that personality a little more than it did in the 3rd act. From memory, the movie relies pretty heavily on the powers and effects sequences to show the character breaking free, though we do get that one memorable scene with Yon-Rogg

.

It made sense. It probably could have, but I blame the script on that.

Spoiler

I think her personality being repressed and not being able to be herself was to showcase how Yon-Rogg and the Kree were abusive and weren't allowing her to be herself

I do hope they will show more of this side of Carol in future movies. She was mostly stoic (aka "strong female character") in this movie.

I agree and I think they will.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm really not optimistic about the chances of X-Men solo films. Maybe the odd one (like Wolverine) works that way, but for the most part they are all too similar to each other. They all get their powers the same way. They share the same basic supporting cast and villains. The majority have the same basic character arc (powers that they can't control, manifest in adolescence at a time of extreme stress, they become hated and shunned by the world at large, they meet up with Xavier/The X-Men that teaches them how to control their powers and how they should fight to protect those that hate and fear them, etc.). It would get old quick.

All the solos they've done so far have brought some unique feature to the MCU, whether it is science/technology (Iron Man), Eastern mystic arts (Doctor Strange), traditional old school action-spy thrillers (Cap), space opera (Guardians), old school mythological heroism (Thor), heist films (Ant-Man), etc. This has probably been a big reason why the Avengers that don't have solos so far, haven't gotten them.

I don't entirely agree. I think characters like Storm or Gambit can have very interesting stories to tell in a solo. Not every X-Man would be so lucky, that is true. But I think there are a few good candidates outside of Wolverine. You just cannot approach it like an origin. For Storm, you can focus it on Shadow King and her history in Africa. Gambit has his thieves guild or you can do something whacky like have him forced into Mojoworld. That one issue where Kitty Pride was alone by herself against the brood could be a fun little adventure. Etc. I also think Cable is a logical choice for a movie.

I'm just saying there are options.

 

[Patrick77]

One point, with regard to the earlier discussion, is the mixed messages on the topic of emotion...

Spoiler: Regarding control/manipulation

Basically, the argument against Carol as a pilot is largely "you are too emotional."

While the Kree say, "don't be emotional, don't trust your emotions."

It's not the same message, but the first message could have made Carol more vulnerable to the Kree conditioning, essentially.

And then the finale is about trusting her emotions as positive.

 

[kvz5]

So how much Carol are you guys estimating in EG? I'm not expecting too much because the focus will (deservingly) be on the original Avengers but at first, I speculated that she will be there all throughout but on hindsight, I'm starting to buy the theory that:

Spoiler

She shows up in the beginning (days/week after snap) and helps them fight Thanos but.. they lose. Something happens after that and she's MIA again (she dies? she goes somewhere?). Years will pass and the QR plot kicks in with the others. And then I guess she comes back for the finale? Either way, it seems like we'll see her the most in the first act. Do we know of any info that will contradict that and support that she's involved in the QR plot and the grand finale?

 

[Patrick77]

Without getting into a lot of detail, I would guess that Endgame will be structured something like the following:

Spoiler: Definitely Spoilers here, just inferred from trailers, but do not click if you do not want to be spoiled a little.

1) First act: Confronting Thanos directly. Maybe they win, but still can't fix the damage done.

2) Second act: A bold plan to somehow create a small chance at actual victory.

3) Final Confrontation, with circumstances having been changed somehow by #2. A chance to undo the damage.

I expect Carol to be involved in all 3 parts of the film, tbh. But maybe her role in #2 is something specific, different from what the rest of the team is doing in the quantum realm.

 

[Naglfar]

So how much Carol are you guys estimating in EG? I'm not expecting too much because the focus will (deservingly) be on the original Avengers but at first, I speculated that she will be there all throughout but on hindsight, I'm starting to buy the theory that:

Spoiler

She shows up in the beginning (days/week after snap) and helps them fight Thanos but.. they lose. Something happens after that and she's MIA again (she dies? she goes somewhere?). Years will pass and the QR plot kicks in with the others. And then I guess she comes back for the finale? Either way, it seems like we'll see her the most in the first act. Do we know of any info that will contradict that and support that she's involved in the QR plot and the grand finale?

I agree with everything you wrote

Spoiler

Another thing that points to her not being in the QR subplot is that she is the only one who doesn't have a suit in the toy leaks so far (but then again maybe she doesn't need one). Also a supposedly leaked plot from Douban strongly suggests the same.

Even if she gets less screen time than initialy thought, I'm sure Russos will make every second count

 

[kvz5]

I agree with everything you wrote

Spoiler

Another thing that points to her not being in the QR subplot is that she is the only one who doesn't have a suit in the toy leaks so far (but then again maybe she doesn't need one). Also a supposedly leaked plot from Douban strongly suggests the same.

Even if she gets less screen time than initialy thought, I'm sure Russos will make every second count

For sure. I guess the big question now is

Spoiler

why is she absent? I'm hoping it's because she went somewhere to do something and not because she died. I mean, she'll obviously come back but it would be quite shocking if they do in fact kill her in the first act.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm really not optimistic about the chances of X-Men solo films. Maybe the odd one (like Wolverine) works that way, but for the most part they are all too similar to each other. They all get their powers the same way. They share the same basic supporting cast and villains. The majority have the same basic character arc (powers that they can't control, manifest in adolescence at a time of extreme stress, they become hated and shunned by the world at large, they meet up with Xavier/The X-Men that teaches them how to control their powers and how they should fight to protect those that hate and fear them, etc.). It would get old quick.

All the solos they've done so far have brought some unique feature to the MCU, whether it is science/technology (Iron Man), Eastern mystic arts (Doctor Strange), traditional old school action-spy thrillers (Cap), space opera (Guardians), old school mythological heroism (Thor), heist films (Ant-Man), etc. This has probably been a big reason why the Avengers that don't have solos so far, haven't gotten them.

Maybe. But at the same time, Rogue, Jean, and Storm are easily the top three most well known Marvel heroines (at least until Captain Marvel came to the MCU). Hell, growing up, Rogue was basically my only exposure to a female superhero with powers comparable to Superman (Wonder Woman did not fly or demonstrate much super strength or invulnerability in the pre-90s superhero cartoons, and was MIA altogether in animation during the 90s when X-men was at its peak).

Also it's not like the origin of someone's powers is really that important. Spider-man's origin is barely touched on, he could easily have been a mutant and it wouldn't have changed anything. What's more important is that they find an interesting angle. Rogue's angle is that she's a runaway who can't touch people. Her powers also have a very unique potential for lots of interesting set pieces and action scenes.

Plus, the X-men solo movies wouldn't need to exclude all other X-men or mutants. Much like how the movie Logan had Xavier in it, or how Deadpool had Colossus and NSTW, they can make use of the larger cast in whatever way serves the story.

 

[Naglfar]

For sure. I guess the big question now is

Spoiler

why is she absent? I'm hoping it's because she went somewhere to do something and not because she died. I mean, she'll obviously come back but it would be quite shocking if they do in fact kill her in the first act. [/soiler]

Spoiler

Eh, I really hope they don't kill her. I'm fine with Thanos beating her at the start of the movie (that will also shut up a lot of crybabies claiming that Carol will one-shot Thanos) but send her on a side mission afterwards

 

[Patrick77]

I really don't think that's likely. More likely, to my mind...

Spoiler

is the team splitting up.

But it's hard to be sure.

 

[kvz5]

Spoiler

Eh, I really hope they don't kill her. I'm fine with Thanos beating her at the start of the movie (that will also shut up a lot of crybabies claiming that Carol will one-shot Thanos) but send her on a side mission afterwards

I really don't think that's likely. More likely, to my mind...

Spoiler

is the team splitting up.

But it's hard to be sure.

I’m fine with those.

 

[Thome216]

I imagine she'll have a secondary role, what with it being an ensemble, and esp with a few bowing out.
It's similar to when WW came out and all focus was suddenly on Diana rather than JL as a whole. Although comparatively, I would assume Carol's role in EG will be even smaller than that.
I do hope she is in it for more than I am expecting, but that's just wishful thinking.

 

[Naglfar]

I'm hoping for a role and screen time similar to Dr Strange's in IW at least.

 

[Patrick77]

I really don't think that they set this up so that Carol could have a small role in the movie, tbh.

That would be very unlike Marvel Studios. There will probably be some surprises in store. But I expect her to do something that is pivotal.

They are not revealing a lot, but I would guess that...

Spoiler

The Quantum Realm aspect is only one part of the equation for eventually reversing the snap.