CBR Poll... Spider-Man married or single?

[TheCorpulent1]

Supernatural or not, there were plenty of misogynists who blamed MJ for breaking up the marriage because she suggested it first in "OMD."

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Hoo boy! My topic! Well, I assume you guys know where I fall on this question by now.

Sorry to be so late. So much to comment, don't know how much I can get to right now.

I just don't get this ridiculous love for the marriage. "oooh they are the best couple eva!""I couldn't possibly enjoy Spider-Man now with MJ!!!" Its annoying. And its not that people having a positive opinion, but the CONSTANT whining. People bring this crap up at the drop of the hat.

I didn't bring it up, but now that it is brought up...

I liked the marriage. Pete & MJ were good for each other. I had been rooting for them to get together since the 70's! But, one of the things that bugs me about undoing the marriage is I'm a BIG continuity guy. Pete & MJ DID GET MARRIED. It happened. It was a big thing. It was not some passing reference. And now they just want to ignore something that happened.

They were married for a relatively short time,

20 years of a not yet 50 years of history is NOT "a relatively short time."

and it was a gimmick to begin with.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many times do I have to go over this???!!! There WAS a lead up to the marriage. Even those they have claimed gimmick (I forget if it was iloveclones or TMOB) admitted the writers at the time planned for a wedding, only to have MJ have cold feet and not go through with it. As such, they WERE leading up to a wedding anyway. Only then they decide to have the GUTS to go through with it.

How can you NOT look up to a man that continues to DO THE RIGHT thing in SPITE of getting kicked in the nuts all the time...

'bats, you know I agree with the rest of your post, but the thing is Pete making the deal with the devil was NOT the right thing. The right thing was to let go of his Aunt (as she wanted, by the way, and told him so), and accept responsibility that Aunt May died in the line of fire.


Ah, nuts, I have to go before making more comments. I hope to return! t:

 

[Spider-Gnome]

OK, where was I?

Peter did get married... and we all know how that turned out.

Yeah, Joe Q came along to force the WORST Spider-Man story of all time to end a marriage he didn't like.

Having said that, I am aware that some pro-marriage people are reading the book...

t:

Since I started reading Spider-Man comics regularly in 1993 I never really cared for Mary Jane. It's not like I hated the character but I suppose it was the time frame I started reading but she just wasn't an interesting character.

That would put you after the MacFarlane & Larsen runs, correct? Then that would explain it because that's when MJ started to be written more whiney and b*tchy and waiting by the window for Pete to come home, that those who complain about the marriage bring up. She was a lot more interesting during MacFarlane & Larsen's runs and during JMS's run, as well as before they got married.

I kind of like what Slott's opened up in the world of Spider-Man since he took over at the beginning of Big Time, minus the Carlie Cooper saturation. If Peter and MJ got back together it'd be some really great writing by Dan Slott and would be the first writer that actually would make me give a damn about the Peter/MJ marriage. So...we'll see.

Slott has been the best thing to happen Spider-Man in a looooong time! Carlie was the only blemish to this era, and now that she & Pete broke up, things are even better!

More to come...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Peter waking up in bed with Michelle... thinking he slept with her even though he didn't...

Which was TOTALLY out of character. And for the record, the writers said Pete DID sleep with her, it really should have been as you said. And then they tell us it wasn't even alcohol? So, now you can't even blame it on being drunk?

And for those who have told me to "get with the times," then you rally don't understand Pete's character.

But in MY opinion, you can have more persoanl life melodrama when he single.... or just dating.

I'd say different melodrama, not necessarily more.

The only people who can afford to do that are the already unhappy and the disturbed, both of which describe Batman, not Spider-Man.

Which sounded like the whole I Am The Spider/Peter Parker No More, which did not work at all for the character, IMO.

I'll admit, very often, marriages can fall victim to being cliched, formulaic and predictable and end up sucking as a result (Home Improvement and Everybody Loves Raymond come to mind.)

Hey, I happened to like Everybody Loves Raymond!

You act like pro-marriage people have never read any books with him single.

No, in TMOB's defense, he knows that's not true. He knows my pro-marriage stance and we started reading about the same time (in fact I probably proceed him by a couple of years).

Hear, hear. I'm a fan of the marriage, and I love the stories that took place pre-marriage, especially the original runs on Amazing by Gerry Conway and Roger Stern.

t: Ah, my oft-mentioned favorite eras, post-Gwen '70's era & Hobgoblin '80's era!

I get what you're saying... but the poll asks which is the better Spidey status...

"married versus NOW"

Which is why I DIDN'T vote on that poll. I don't want to imply I don't like Spidey now. I love it! I'd prefer if they had kept him married. If this poll took place during BND, no question. But, so far, Slott has done an Amazing job with the title since taking over sole writing duties.

In any event, regardless of what the poll results are, I doubt Marvel is going to go back to a "marriage"... I've stated since BND began that I wouldn't be surprised if Peter and MJ hooked up again... but just not as a married couple... we got a brief glimpse at the end of Spider-Island that should have made ALL Spider-Man fans smile...

So in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy the ride.

t:

It started slacking when they started trying to undo them. I mean, even during the Clone Saga when they were trying to replace Peter with Ben, the Parker marriage itself was very interesting and great. It dragged a little during the Mackie days and then got really good during the Straczynski days... and then it died.

After the Clone Saga failed (miserably), we had Mackie days of exploding planes and separation. And there was still an outcry, so Pete & MJ got back together and handled quite well by JMS. Until JR JR left and Sins Past started to derail the series again, that is.

I don't know if it was an "official" excuse or not, but I know the popular theory at the time at least was that a divorce would have aged Peter Parker even more than him being married, and making him more relatable to a younger audience was supposedly one of the reasons behind the elimination of the marriage in the first place.

Correct, as TheCorpulent1 said, from the horse's mouth. Being married made Pete "old." Being divorced or a widower would have made him "older."

Even though I heard that OMIT sort of undid this, I like the marriage ending being something super natural because it didn't make Peter or MJ the bad guy and didn't undo their feeling for each other.

But, that was EXACTLY the problem! The supernatural ending happened because Pete willing made a deal with the devil to end the marriage. It puts it right on Pete (& MJ, who also agreed). That's why I harped Loki doing as part of the favor he owed Pete and making it mischievous trick would have been better (although just sticking with the marriage and coming up with the Dr. Strange/Stark/Richards solution on their own would have been best).




Whew!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Correct, as TheCorpulent1 said, from the horse's mouth. Being married made Pete "old." Being divorced or a widower would have made him "older."

I've never agreed to this. People are getting married and divorced very young now, barely into their twenties. Being that Peter seems to be around mid-to-late twenties I'd say that'd actually put him INTO the demographic of today's young married people.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I've never agreed to this. People are getting married and divorced very young now, barely into their twenties. Being that Peter seems to be around mid-to-late twenties I'd say that'd actually put him INTO the demographic of today's young married people.

Never said you did. I said, as Corp pointed out, Joe Q said it. But it makes "sense" if you think married is "old," divorced & widower are "older" since you have to be married first.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Never said you did. I said, as Corp pointed out, Joe Q said it. But it makes "sense" if you think married is "old," divorced & widower are "older" since you have to be married first.

Oh, I meant "I've never agreed to this" as in I never agreed with Quesada.

And I was married at 21 (my wife was 20) and all of my closest friends (save one) were married before they were 23. I don't see married as being old at all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm 27 and not married, but I have several friends who are. They're pretty much the same married as they were before being married. Some of them even--gasp!--hang out with people besides their spouses still!

Based on a long stretch of Spider-Man comics, you'd think that was impossible. But that's just writers being stupid and arbitrarily putting Peter and MJ into this box where they're the only company the other ever has for years. The Marvel higher-ups just found the marriage to be a convenient scapegoat for said writers' stupidity.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Oh, I meant "I've never agreed to this" as in I never agreed with Quesada.

And I was married at 21 (my wife was 20) and all of my closest friends (save one) were married before they were 23. I don't see married as being old at all.

Oh, sorry I misinterpreted.

And for the record, I don't think married=old either. I was in my mid-20's when I married.

And yes, there were crappy pre-married stories. There were crappy married stories. And there were certainly crappy BND stories. The thing is, it isn't the marriage or lack there of that made them crappy.

 

[Czar Colossus]

Gotta go with married (feel the same about Clark and Lois too).

 

[dkamphaus43]

I'm 27 and not married, but I have several friends who are. They're pretty much the same married as they were before being married. Some of them even--gasp!--hang out with people besides their spouses still!

Based on a long stretch of Spider-Man comics, you'd think that was impossible. But that's just writers being stupid and arbitrarily putting Peter and MJ into this box where they're the only company the other ever has for years. The Marvel higher-ups just found the marriage to be a convenient scapegoat for said writers' stupidity.

Bravo, well said! I'd love to hear Joe Q's rebuttal to that. It's a shame he wasn't challenged more when he went ahead with his completely misguided crusade. It's the same thing that aggravates me so much about George Lucas; when people make bad decisions that are tailor made to fit their personal agenda and end up being reviled and hugely unpopular with the general public, they should be challenged but very often aren't.

 

[Dan_Slott]

and it was a gimmick to begin with.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many times do I have to go over this???!!! There WAS a lead up to the marriage.

Actually, you're a little wrong on this. It was a gimmick.
According to Jim Shooter (EIC at the time), a fan suggested it at a panel, Stan thought it was a good idea and ran with it in the Spider-Man daily strip.

The marriage of Spider-Man in the daily strip suddenly got a lot of press-- and to take advantage of that press, Marvel Comics decided to ride on those coattails and RUSHED the marriage into the monthly comic as well.

There was NO build up at all. MJ's "love for Peter" was quickly jammed into the book A.S.A.P.
For example, you can find scenes like THIS in the Spider-Books right before they decided to force the marriage into the book:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/spideyjerk.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/catfight.jpg
And stories like KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT were already in the drawer-- but had to be rewritten so that Peter & MJ were husband and wife.

Sorry, Spider-Gnome, but the marriage was a gimmick.
(Though, personally, I think it was a VERY well executed gimmick!)

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, one more thing to add to that Dan, is the fact that Tom DeFlaco had admitted in a recent interiew that he was leading the pair to a wedding... presumably in ASM #350, where MJ was going to walk away from Peter at the altar... Oh, that Spectre of Spider-Man strikes again...lol...

But Tom didn't have time to develop that relationship, an was forced to do it "quickly" with little to no build up at all because of the reasons that you stated...

This is where Spider-Gnome gets confused about the gimmick business, because we both read that article... he just thinks it went as planned, while we all know it did not.

So while yes, Tom did have a plan, he didn't have a chance to start it, and the end result was a flash-in-the-pan gimmick wedding that we all read.



Dammit... I've been trying to find that interview, but no such luck.

*##%$#@^%@^



Ok... I found it... it's a PDF file, but on page 3, Tom discusses his "marriage" poposal to Shooter, who then talks to Stan about it, and then it all snowballed from there... Shooter denies it went this way...lol

http://twomorrows.com/media/BI23Preview.pdf

It's a GREAT read... lookit all them awesome writers who thought it was a bad idea...

 

[runawayboulder]

When did Tom become writer? Around #250 - 260...? He was going for a hundred issues stint as writer? Damn, that's long considering back then Marvel rarely did double shipping.....

 

[Themanofbat]

Considering that Tom just wrote over 120 issues of Spider-Girl, I think he had it in him...

 

[Themanofbat]

I really dig Ron Frenz' comments about putting Peter in a list of ****ty situations and then eliminate the ones that previous writers have done... and Peter getting jilted at the altar was on the top of that list...

So for all those people that complain that I know nothing about Spider-Man and how this "spectre" crap is made up in my head....

READ THOSE COMMENTS!!! BY SOME OF THE BIGGEST CREATORS OF THA TIME!!!

They basically reflect my own....

I should write Spider-Man.

 

[dkamphaus43]

Actually, you're a little wrong on this. It was a gimmick.
According to Jim Shooter (EIC at the time), a fan suggested it at a panel, Stan thought it was a good idea and ran with it in the Spider-Man daily strip.

The marriage of Spider-Man in the daily strip suddenly got a lot of press-- and to take advantage of that press, Marvel Comics decided to ride on those coattails and RUSHED the marriage into the monthly comic as well.

There was NO build up at all. MJ's "love for Peter" was quickly jammed into the book A.S.A.P.
For example, you can find scenes like THIS in the Spider-Books right before they decided to force the marriage into the book:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/spideyjerk.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/catfight.jpg
And stories like KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT were already in the drawer-- but had to be rewritten so that Peter & MJ were husband and wife.

Sorry, Spider-Gnome, but the marriage was a gimmick.
(Though, personally, I think it was a VERY well executed gimmick!)

It was a gimmick in a sense, I won't dispute that. And even though I always liked the marriage, I think it definitely could have used more build up after the proposal and acceptance of the proposal. But even though it might have been a gimmick, I still feel that it was one that fit with what was going on at the time.

But saying that MJ's love for Peter was quickly jammed in the books, I don't really know if that's fair. Maybe you just interpreted the scenes between them differently than I do, but in the stories that took place before the marriage, it seemed like there was a very strong, "will they-won't they", undercurrent between the 2 characters. It looked to me like a case of 2 people who tried a relationship once before, but even though it didn't work out at first, they still appeared to love and care about each other tremendously, but they were still apprehensive about taking the leap of getting back together again because of all the baggage that existed between them at the time (the fact that things didn't work out between them originally, Peter's being Spider-Man, MJ's family problems and fear of commitment, etc.).

But again, that was just my interpretation of those stories. Maybe you have a different one, and that's totally cool.

By the way, a million thanks for those wonderful scenes between Pete and MJ in the last few issues of Spider-Island. I absolutely loved them. I don't know if you are an Peter/MJ shipper or not, but regardless, I think you do a wonderful job of handling their relationship and showing us why we love seeing them together.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

First, I would like to thank you, Mr. Slott, for taking time out of your busy schedule and commenting on my post. I know I give you grief sometimes when you come off as defensive on these boards, but it is always a pleasure when you stop by to comment with us. And, as I have been saying on these very boards, as a loooong time fan and big time fan of continuity, I think you have been doing a FANTASTIC job since taking over sole writing duties on the title! I am being sincere when I say that you're run is shaping up to join the ranks of my favorite Spidey eras.

That said, let's get to it....

First of all, allow me to re-phrase what I mean. The wedding may have been a gimmick, I will grant you that, with the lining up with the daily strip and the ceremony at Shea Stadium, and all that, but the marriage was not.

Actually, you're a little wrong on this. It was a gimmick.
According to Jim Shooter (EIC at the time), a fan suggested it at a panel, Stan thought it was a good idea and ran with it in the Spider-Man daily strip.

The marriage of Spider-Man in the daily strip suddenly got a lot of press-- and to take advantage of that press, Marvel Comics decided to ride on those coattails and RUSHED the marriage into the monthly comic as well.

OK, while I disagree and felt the characters had enough history to justify Pete's proposal and MJ's acceptance, they did rush to the wedding. I mean, MJ accepts and the very next issue is the Annual with the wedding. They definitely wasted potential engagement era stories, which I was disappointed we never got.

There was NO build up at all. MJ's "love for Peter" was quickly jammed into the book A.S.A.P.
For example, you can find scenes like THIS in the Spider-Books right before they decided to force the marriage into the book:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/spideyjerk.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/catfight.jpg

Ah, the old out of context panels. Yes, either TMOB or iloveclones (sorry, guys, I keep forgetting who I had these arguments with) were using the same examples. But, what I think is missing is the subtext of those scenes. Yes, MJ seemed to "always be there" at Pete's. But why do you suppose this was so? And it was more a passing comment Pete who was, I believe preoccupied with a Spidey matter.

And the scene with MJ & Cat? MJ had come over to Pete's to try and get a handle on what their current relationship was. And Cat just had her apartment blown up and sort of guilted Pete in crashing at his place. And Pete got mad at MJ. And he wondered why afterward. I took that he was actually struggling with his true feelings for MJ.

Sorry, Spider-Gnome, but the marriage was a gimmick.
(Though, personally, I think it was a VERY well executed gimmick!)

It is always pleasant to cordially discuss matters of differences of opinions!

Sorry, guys. I gotta go again. I'll comment on you other guys when I get back.

 

[runawayboulder]

This time period right before the marriage is one of the most fascinating times I've ever seen behind the scenes in all of comics. You guys got me to read this terrific article again: http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJanePart3.html

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Well, one more thing to add to that Dan, is the fact that Tom DeFlaco had admitted in a recent interiew that he was leading the pair to a wedding... presumably in ASM #350, where MJ was going to walk away from Peter at the altar... Oh, that Spectre of Spider-Man strikes again...lol...

But Tom didn't have time to develop that relationship, an was forced to do it "quickly" with little to no build up at all because of the reasons that you stated...

This is where Spider-Gnome gets confused about the gimmick business, because we both read that article... he just thinks it went as planned, while we all know it did not.

So while yes, Tom did have a plan, he didn't have a chance to start it, and the end result was a flash-in-the-pan gimmick wedding that we all read.


Ok... I found it... it's a PDF file, but on page 3, Tom discusses his "marriage" poposal to Shooter, who then talks to Stan about it, and then it all snowballed from there... Shooter denies it went this way...lol

http://twomorrows.com/media/BI23Preview.pdf

It's a GREAT read... lookit all them awesome writers who thought it was a bad idea...

Thanks, TMOB. I knew either you or 'clones told me about those plans to leave Pete at the alter. I had not actually read the article myself, until now, thanks to your link.

Yes, that was a very interesting read! I hope people take note of Ron Frenz's quote:

"Tom and I made Pete and Mary Jane best friends,
and we kind of left it at that, and then a lot of the other
writers started taking that into the romantic realm. We
had talked about the idea that now that they were
romantically involved, they would get engaged, and we
would get to the point of the marriage."

So, there was some form of build up for the proposal & acceptance, even if they rushed to the actual wedding.

And I think DeFalco had the best quote about the marriage:

"I didn’t think it had any material effect on
the character of Spider-Man. Peter is still Peter. He just
has a wife to think about whenever he risks his life. It’s
a situation that any cop or fireman knows very well."

If more writers thought like that, we wouldn't have had problems.

So for all those people that complain that I know nothing about Spider-Man and how this "spectre" crap is made up in my head....

READ THOSE COMMENTS!!! BY SOME OF THE BIGGEST CREATORS OF THA TIME!!!

I never had a problem with you bringing up the Spectre of Spider-Man. I get it. I've been reading for nearly 40 years. It's just once in a while, you want Pete to get a break, you know?

I should write Spider-Man.

Heaven help us!

But saying that MJ's love for Peter was quickly jammed in the books, I don't really know if that's fair. Maybe you just interpreted the scenes between them differently than I do, but in the stories that took place before the marriage, it seemed like there was a very strong, "will they-won't they", undercurrent between the 2 characters. It looked to me like a case of 2 people who tried a relationship once before, but even though it didn't work out at first, they still appeared to love and care about each other tremendously, but they were still apprehensive about taking the leap of getting back together again because of all the baggage that existed between them at the time (the fact that things didn't work out between them originally, Peter's being Spider-Man, MJ's family problems and fear of commitment, etc.).

This. Thank you! This is what I always felt and tried to express on these boards, but I tend to get a little flabbergasted and try to hurry and post (and I type slow). You have said it much more eloquently.

Oh, and does this situation sound familiar?*

By the way, a million thanks for those wonderful scenes between Pete and MJ in the last few issues of Spider-Island. I absolutely loved them. I don't know if you are an Peter/MJ shipper or not, but regardless, I think you do a wonderful job of handling their relationship and showing us why we love seeing them together.

Again, I concur. Kudos, Mr. Slott!

*And concerning kamphausd1's assessment above of Pete & MJ's premarital relationship, I think Dan could do a great job doing this now with Pete & MJ, since it is now a similar situation.

 

[stillanerd]

Actually, you're a little wrong on this. It was a gimmick.
According to Jim Shooter (EIC at the time), a fan suggested it at a panel, Stan thought it was a good idea and ran with it in the Spider-Man daily strip.

The marriage of Spider-Man in the daily strip suddenly got a lot of press-- and to take advantage of that press, Marvel Comics decided to ride on those coattails and RUSHED the marriage into the monthly comic as well.

There was NO build up at all. MJ's "love for Peter" was quickly jammed into the book A.S.A.P.
For example, you can find scenes like THIS in the Spider-Books right before they decided to force the marriage into the book:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/spideyjerk.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/DanSlott/catfight.jpg
And stories like KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT were already in the drawer-- but had to be rewritten so that Peter & MJ were husband and wife.

Sorry, Spider-Gnome, but the marriage was a gimmick.
(Though, personally, I think it was a VERY well executed gimmick!)

Well, technically Dan, those two images you cited actually don't really back up the idea that MJ's love for Peter was "quickly jammed in the books." Both of those images are taken from the "Gang War" story line. The first is from Amazing Spider-Man #286, which was part 3 of the story. Prior to that, in Amazing Spider-Man #284, she and Peter were about to have a dinner date (and yes, the caption specifically says "date" ) at his apartment when Peter, hearing news about the gang war, took off without telling MJ. The second is from part 5 (Amazing Spider-Man #288) in which she come over to bring Peter breakfast in bed only to find Black Cat there instead apparently shacking up with Pete after her apartment blew up (over in Spectacular Spider-Man) and gets visibly jealous over Felicia being there. If anything, they suggest MJ still had the hots for Peter even though she was "just a friend." And the real kicker--this storyline took place right before Peter proposes to MJ for the second time and took place during the same year as the marriage! So technically, Marvel had already decided to have Peter and MJ marry at that point.

Also, while you're correct about Kraven's Last Hunt (and I vaguely remember J.M. DeMatties saying he originally planned it on being a Batman story), I think even DeMatties stated that the story ended up working better and carried more emotional resonance because Peter and MJ were married.

Other than that, fair points about the married being editorially rushed to coincide with the wedding in the newspaper strip.

It was a gimmick in a sense, I won't dispute that. And even though I always liked the marriage, I think it definitely could have used more build up after the proposal and acceptance of the proposal. But even though it might have been a gimmick, I still feel that it was one that fit with what was going on at the time.

But saying that MJ's love for Peter was quickly jammed in the books, I don't really know if that's fair. Maybe you just interpreted the scenes between them differently than I do, but in the stories that took place before the marriage, it seemed like there was a very strong, "will they-won't they", undercurrent between the 2 characters. It looked to me like a case of 2 people who tried a relationship once before, but even though it didn't work out at first, they still appeared to love and care about each other tremendously, but they were still apprehensive about taking the leap of getting back together again because of all the baggage that existed between them at the time (the fact that things didn't work out between them originally, Peter's being Spider-Man, MJ's family problems and fear of commitment, etc.).

I definitely feel the same way reading those issues, as there were quite a few instances in which it was evident (hindsight being 20/20 and all) that Peter and MJ were in denial about their true feelings for one another despite claiming to be "just friends." Heck, the fact that Ron Frenz mentions how various writers picked up on a romantic undercurrent between them that made them entertain the idea of marrying them in the first place, albeit with a different outcome in mind, pretty much suggests there was indeed a "will they/won't they" scenario in play.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

This time period right before the marriage is one of the most fascinating times I've ever seen behind the scenes in all of comics. You guys got me to read this terrific article again: http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYo...JanePart3.html

Another excellent link! Thanks! A must read!

Well, technically Dan, those two images you cited actually don't really back up the idea that MJ's love for Peter was "quickly jammed in the books." Both of those images are taken from the "Gang War" story line. The first is from Amazing Spider-Man #286, which was part 3 of the story. Prior to that, in Amazing Spider-Man #284, she and Peter were about to have a dinner date (and yes, the caption specifically says "date" ) at his apartment when Peter, hearing news about the gang war, took off without telling MJ. The second is from part 5 (Amazing Spider-Man #288) in which she come over to bring Peter breakfast in bed only to find Black Cat there instead apparently shacking up with Pete after her apartment blew up (over in Spectacular Spider-Man) and gets visibly jealous over Felicia being there. If anything, they suggest MJ still had the hots for Peter even though she was "just a friend."

Like I said, it's easy to take panels out of context. Thanks for the backup with more specific details than I mentioned.

I definitely feel the same way reading those issues, as there were quite a few instances in which it was evident (hindsight being 20/20 and all) that Peter and MJ were in denial about their true feelings for one another despite claiming to be "just friends." Heck, the fact that Ron Frenz mentions how various writers picked up on a romantic undercurrent between them that made them entertain the idea of marrying them in the first place, albeit with a different outcome in mind, pretty much suggests there was indeed a "will they/won't they" scenario in play.

I'm glad others got the same impression I got way back when these issues came out and it wasn't just me reading into it.

I hope this helps end the myth that there was no build up to the proposal/acceptance (although the wedding itself was rushed). The links supplied by TMOB & runaway really help explain my case much better than I have, I think.

 

[Themanofbat]

Well, it helps 24 years later that we can "talk" about how we think the marriage happened organically, but I can count on ONE BIG factor that makes me think it was rushed...

I was there.

I was reading the books.

The wedding simply felt rushed.

Yes, there was some minor hints of a romantic relationhip brewing between Peter and MJ, mostly due to the fact that they had dated before, and MJ's a hottue... and an old supporting cast member... we, the readers, like to see supporting cast members in Peter's book...

And when I read Ron & Tom's comments in the link I supplied, yes, at that time of the Gang War, that was probably going to be the beginning of a relationship that would have led to a courtship & an engagement and then finally a jilted Parker at the alter...

Those plans were in the works....

But instead, we got a rushed gimmick wedding to coincide with Stan's strip as well as a nice Shae Stadium wedding photo opto help boost sales of the book.

Tom even talks about how him and Ron were then removed from the book, so we know that had long term plans...

As a reader, it all felt rushed and did NOT happen organically... regardless of the little teases of "feelings" that we all knew existed because of their past relationship.

Had their been a few more dates and an engagement period, then I could have bought it.

But the way it happend... as a reader of all the Spidey books at that time... it was a gimmick.

Plain and simple.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Well, TMOB, I guess we can agree to disagree on this subject.

As you know, I was there too. I was reading the books too. It worked for me. It didn't work for you. I guess those few elements coupled with Pete & MJ's history were enough back then for me. I will concede the wedding was rushed and a gimmick. I wished we had an "engagement era" as originally planned. But, for me the relationship worked. I just wished OMD didn't come along and create this big divide in the fan community.

I'm just pleased that things seem back on track. I hope Dan can take those elements that should have been played out more in the 80's with the "will they, won't they" and work it into today's story. I think we can agree that Dan can handle it well!

 

[stillanerd]

Well, it helps 24 years later that we can "talk" about how we think the marriage happened organically, but I can count on ONE BIG factor that makes me think it was rushed...

I was there.

I was reading the books.

The wedding simply felt rushed.

Yes, there was some minor hints of a romantic relationhip brewing between Peter and MJ, mostly due to the fact that they had dated before, and MJ's a hottue... and an old supporting cast member... we, the readers, like to see supporting cast members in Peter's book...

And when I read Ron & Tom's comments in the link I supplied, yes, at that time of the Gang War, that was probably going to be the beginning of a relationship that would have led to a courtship & an engagement and then finally a jilted Parker at the alter...

Those plans were in the works....

But instead, we got a rushed gimmick wedding to coincide with Stan's strip as well as a nice Shae Stadium wedding photo opto help boost sales of the book.

Tom even talks about how him and Ron were then removed from the book, so we know that had long term plans...

As a reader, it all felt rushed and did NOT happen organically... regardless of the little teases of "feelings" that we all knew existed because of their past relationship.

Had their been a few more dates and an engagement period, then I could have bought it.

But the way it happend... as a reader of all the Spidey books at that time... it was a gimmick.

Plain and simple.

Oh, I agree that if, during that time, Peter and MJ's engagement period lasted for a lot longer rather than just being crammed into the Annual along with their wedding, that would have been the better option. After all, the average engagement period--depending on the couple, how soon they want to get married, and the amount of planning involving--typically lasts for 6 months to a year. That's about 2-3 years worth of stories in real time right there to explore Peter and MJ planning for their wedding and their future together with all the typical Spider-Man interruptions and "Parker Luck" to get in the way.

As for me, when I was a kid and found out Peter and Mary Jane got married, I went "that makes sense." Of course, that might have been because the very first Spider-Man comic I ever read was the Power Record's "Invasion of the Dragon Men" in which MJ was Peter's girlfriend and how, coincidentally enough, the issues I would pick up at the local drug store would usually have MJ in them and knowing Peter was Spider-Man.