The Mandalorian Chapter Thirteen Spoiler Discussion

[Schlosser85]

I was kinda hoping it wouldn’t take until the season finale to get Gideon back in any substantive way again.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I was kinda hoping it wouldn’t take until the season finale to get Gideon back in any substantive way again.

This.

I am so on board with this show... But the handling of the overall arc, the pacing in the flow of the story... It leaves a lot out, and I am sorry... In the grand scheme when you have such a short episode run per season whatever feels like "filler" or the like really stands out.

Still... on it's own merits the show is compelling enough and I'm sucked in. There's not THAT much to complain about, if anything of substance in my view. Nothing so far has wrecked my enthusiasm and they keep finding ways to hook me. Tano and Thrawn are great steps in making me kinda NEVER giving up on the show at this point I thinnk.

 

[Iceman]

Just realized we are over halfway done with this season

Only 3 episodes to go

The seasons really don’t feel long. Just 8 episodes with a bunch of them being short.

 

[The Infernal]

At least it will take us past Christmas and then we'll have WandaVision to try out.

 

[DarkKnight88]

The seasons really don’t feel long. Just 8 episodes with a bunch of them being short.

Which is extremely refreshing for me when I feel most shows overstay their welcome. Even episodes overstay their welcome an hour long zzzzz

This show stays special because of that.

 

[Bobber]

Which is extremely refreshing for me when I feel most shows overstay their welcome. Even episodes overstay their welcome an hour long zzzzz

This show stays special because of that.

Yet somehow it still manages to have at least two or three episodes of filler per season.

 

[Iceman]

Which is extremely refreshing for me when I feel most shows overstay their welcome. Even episodes overstay their welcome an hour long zzzzz

This show stays special because of that.

I got that with some of the MCU Netflix shows at 13 episodes.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Yet somehow it still manages to have at least two or three episodes of filler per season.

The show is ultimately separate episodic adventures with a grander serial arc. Calling an episode “filler” in this format is misunderstanding the show you’re watching.

The charm of the show is that it’s NOT what you get with a hundred shows today or Picard or Game of Thrones with one ultimate storyline. This is a throwback to the episodic nature of television of old.

It’s probably not fair to call these episodes of The Mandalorian “filler”

 

[Weather Witch]

Current day Ahsoka in Mandalorian might be a more battle-hardened lone samurai, but I absolutely adore this picture of Rosario Dawson's interpretation of the character.

 

[metaphysician]

Yep. That’s what’s happened to a number of attempted universes since. They all got ahead of themselves. Be good first and then people will be interested in what the future holds.

Indeed. I mean, one has to note: season 1 of Mandalorian was essentially all about its own story and characters, with the only references to the greater mythos being pretty much limited to minor easter eggs, outside of the fundamental "There is a baby Yoda" premise. Likewise, the first Iron Man was self-contained prior to the stinger.

Contrast that with, say. . . The Mummy. Wherein pretty much the entire second act exists solely to set up future movies in the franchise with barely a pretense of serving a narrative purpose within the movie its actually in. And indeed arguably the entire movie as a whole exists, first and foremost, to foreshadow and set up other movies, to the point of not even giving a compelling reason for the audience to care about basically anyone within it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This whole, "maybe the end of Rebels had before this episode" is a real retcon if true. Because it was pretty clear when Rebels aired, that was the end of the war. If not, Sabine just sat on a planet for 10 years, doing nothing.

 

[metaphysician]

Yet somehow it still manages to have at least two or three episodes of filler per season.

"Filler", or "Stories that focus on doing other things than driving the main plot forward"? They aren't the same thing.

 

[Iceman]

Indeed. I mean, one has to note: season 1 of Mandalorian was essentially all about its own story and characters, with the only references to the greater mythos being pretty much limited to minor easter eggs, outside of the fundamental "There is a baby Yoda" premise. Likewise, the first Iron Man was self-contained prior to the stinger.

Contrast that with, say. . . The Mummy. Wherein pretty much the entire second act exists solely to set up future movies in the franchise with barely a pretense of serving a narrative purpose within the movie its actually in. And indeed arguably the entire movie as a whole exists, first and foremost, to foreshadow and set up other movies, to the point of not even giving a compelling reason for the audience to care about basically anyone within it.

Right. Many of the other universes tried to emulate the parts that come naturally later rather than focus on how the MCU launched. People forgive weaker films once they’re already invested but your first film or first episode and first season are your audition. If you fail that you aren’t getting anywhere. Luckily here The Mandalorian has passed with flying colours.

 

[Snow Queen]

This whole, "maybe the end of Rebels had before this episode" is a real retcon if true. Because it was pretty clear when Rebels aired, that was the end of the war. If not, Sabine just sat on a planet for 10 years, doing nothing.

I swear to god, I love the Rebels finale, but "Sabine sat there doing nothing during the whole OT" was the dumbest thing and really kneecapped a lot of potential stories. Enough so I expect a massive amount of squirming out of it in the future to get her off the planet for stories. If they extend that to the entirety of her twenties now... I don't like that. Please don't.

 

[Roose Bolton]

They’ve already started to go against the “where are they now” ending a bit by showing that Zeb was involved in the war a little bit in the comics and wasn’t just off honeymooning with Kallus on the Lasat world, so I expect they’ll play fast and loose with the rest.

 

[Snow Queen]

They’ve already started to go against the “where are they now” ending a bit by showing that Zeb was involved in the war a little bit in the comics and wasn’t just off honeymooning with Kallus on the Lasat world, so I expect they’ll play fast and loose with the rest.

Out of curiosity, which comic was this? I haven't been able to keep up on them since the... *gestures broadly to everything*

 

[Roose Bolton]

Out of curiosity, which comic was this? I haven't been able to keep up on them since the... *gestures broadly to everything*

It was the mainline title, I wanna say during Kieron Gillen’s run in that arc of his that was building up to ESB. Hera, Zeb, and Rex cameo throughout the Rebellion mission debriefing scenes.

 

[Snow Queen]

It was the mainline title, I wanna say during Kieron Gillen’s run in that arc of his that was building up to ESB. Hera, Zeb, and Rex cameo throughout the Rebellion mission debriefing scenes.

Ah, alright, thanks. I remember hearing about Hera, but either didn't know or forgot about the other two. Thanks.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

After seeing this post from Rian Johnson it made me realize something:



We will probably see Anakin Force Ghost. The question is will it be on this show, an Ahsoka spin off or a new animated series. Totally talking to Ahsoka.

 

[Weather Witch]

Totally talking to Ahsoka.

There is nothing I would like to see more in all of Star Wars.

 

[TheVileOne]

I swear to god, I love the Rebels finale, but "Sabine sat there doing nothing during the whole OT" was the dumbest thing and really kneecapped a lot of potential stories. Enough so I expect a massive amount of squirming out of it in the future to get her off the planet for stories. If they extend that to the entirety of her twenties now... I don't like that. Please don't.

IMHO Ahsoka still being alive throughout the entirety of the Galactic Civil War is worse.

 

[flickchick85]

Those things never bothered me because this galaxy far, far, away is actually really massive and as we’ve seen in various episodes of Clone Wars and the Mandalorian, there are plenty of battles being fought within it that would never be remotely mentioned in the Skywalker Saga. That saga really only followed one “front,” it just happened to be the front that ended the Empire. But that doesn’t mean there weren’t hundreds of good fights being fought elsewhere. Especially by people who were faced with extinction and forced to lay low. As we saw in Rogue One, a lot of the Rebellion was fought covertly, and a lot of the communities throughout the galaxy were just trying to survive. As long as Ahsoka was fighting for people who needed fighting for during that time, I don’t care that she wasn’t on the most famous front line of the war.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Those things never bothered me because this galaxy far, far, away is actually really massive and as we’ve seen in various episodes of Clone Wars and the Mandalorian, there are plenty of battles being fought within it that would never be remotely mentioned in the Skywalker Saga. That saga really only followed one “front,” it just happened to be the front that ended the Empire. But that doesn’t mean there weren’t hundreds of good fights being fought elsewhere. Especially by people who were faced with extinction and forced to lay low. As we saw in Rogue One, a lot of the Rebellion was fought covertly, and a lot of the communities throughout the galaxy were just trying to survive. As long as Ahsoka was fighting for people who needed fighting for during that time, I don’t care that she wasn’t on the most famous front line of the war.

To me, being a Jedi or even having Jedi training is fundamentally different. While the OT has two armies, the truth is the saga is about the Jedi vs. the Sith. The light of the force vs. the dark side of the force. The Skywalkers are at the heart of this, representing both sides. It's why the armies can change, but the conflict is still the same.

Forget that they tied Ahsoka into Anakin's story so much. The significance of Luke Skywalker, the LAST Jedi is a big deal, not only in the context of the films, but what is happening in the galaxy as a whole at that time. The literal setup for the OT is that Vader hunted down and killed all the Jedi knights but 2. The two he could never find. The two he knew the best. When those two pass, which they do, there is only Luke. Emphasized by the words of the last Jedi Grand Master, who is so powerful he has actually Skyped across the galaxy with both Ezra and Ahsoka, so if they were alive, he'd know. When Luke shows up on the Death Star 2, that's it. The last of the Jedi, the last of the Sith, confronting one another. In the middle? The one who was a Jedi, but is now one of the two remaining Sith.

If Ahsoka is out there fighting, how does Vader not know? After all, her death was literally in-universe retconned in front of Vader. He'd know she wasn't dead, and yet he stopped hunting her? Why? When Yoda says that Luke is their last hope, Yoda replies nom there is another. But the "other" is very specific, and we learn it is Luke's sister.



While I don't have much love for Ahsoka, I do like Ezra quite a bit. Love Kanan. When Kanan died, it actually got to me, but I also knew it was necessary and accepted it for the necessary part of the story it was. Because when so much of the saga films, which are the heart of Star Wars, are about a new hope arriving, the return of the Jedi, the Force awakening and the last Jedi, their existence throws thing out of balance. I just hope, Ahsoka dies before the ST. Because these people are suppose to at least like TLJ, and well there is no fudging it with that one. The one where Luke literally represents that last one, and then Rey takes that mantle. Those with Jedi training come the ST are Luke, Leia, Rey and Benjamin. That's it.



That Filoni would make something like Twin Suns, and then crap on it, along with the saga itself, bothers me. Especially as while many will argue over what Johnson did or did not do to Luke, it is Filoni who chips away at Lucas and Luke way more with these kind of decisions.

 

[flickchick85]

To me, being a Jedi or even having Jedi training is fundamentally different. While the OT has two armies, the truth is the saga is about the Jedi vs. the Sith. The light of the force vs. the dark side of the force. The Skywalkers are at the heart of this, representing both sides. It's why the armies can change, but the conflict is still the same.

Forget that they tied Ahsoka into Anakin's story so much. The significance of Luke Skywalker, the LAST Jedi is a big deal, not only in the context of the films, but what is happening in the galaxy as a whole at that time. The literal setup for the OT is that Vader hunted down and killed all the Jedi knights but 2. The two he could never find. The two he knew the best. When those two pass, which they do, there is only Luke. Emphasized by the words of the last Jedi Grand Master, who is so powerful he has actually Skyped across the galaxy with both Ezra and Ahsoka, so if they were alive, he'd know. When Luke shows up on the Death Star 2, that's it. The last of the Jedi, the last of the Sith, confronting one another. In the middle? The one who was a Jedi, but is now one of the two remaining Sith.

If Ahsoka is out there fighting, how does Vader not know? After all, her death was literally in-universe retconned in front of Vader. He'd know she wasn't dead, and yet he stopped hunting her? Why? When Yoda says that Luke is their last hope, Yoda replies nom there is another. But the "other" is very specific, and we learn it is Luke's sister.



While I don't have much love for Ahsoka, I do like Ezra quite a bit. Love Kanan. When Kanan died, it actually got to me, but I also knew it was necessary and accepted it for the necessary part of the story it was. Because when so much of the saga films, which are the heart of Star Wars, are about a new hope arriving, the return of the Jedi, the Force awakening and the last Jedi, their existence throws thing out of balance. I just hope, Ahsoka dies before the ST. Because these people are suppose to at least like TLJ, and well there is no fudging it with that one. The one where Luke literally represents that last one, and then Rey takes that mantle. Those with Jedi training come the ST are Luke, Leia, Rey and Benjamin. That's it.

I mean, Ahsoka doesn't see herself as a Jedi Knight. She uses her training to fight for what she believes in, and feels a kinship with a lot of the Jedi for sure (which is why she uses "we" a lot when talking about Jedi) as they were her people for years, and people will forever see her as a Jedi because she wields the Force and has lightsabers, but she's not a Jedi in the sense that Luke or Obi-Wan were, imo. She didn't agree with their ways, and she walked away from the order for a reason. Not all Force users who aren't evil are Jedi Knights. It was the institution she walked away from, not the faith. Their causes were not her causes. I don't even think she considered the battle against the Sith to be her battle anymore. Doesn't mean she's not allowed to be connected to the Force or use her Jedi training for the causes she believes in. To me, what she did is like walking away from the church, but not from God. Doesn't make her any less a person of faith, but she certainly ain't a priest.

And frankly, I believe there are probably other former Jedi out there too, but they're just not fighting the Jedi cause any more or preaching the Jedi ways. There were too many of them, and the galaxy too big, for there not to be more like Kanan, Yoda and Ahsoka who slipped through the cracks when Order 66 came down, imo. Vader couldn't sense them all. Hell, he didn't even know Ahsoka was alive 'til she was right there, and he had a direct emotional connection to her. Luke being THE ONLY PERSON LEFT IN THE GALAXY WHO KNOWS THE WAYS OF THE FORCE was just never something I needed for the story to work, and seems kinda silly to me, tbh, given the size and scope of this galaxy and its history. Him being the guy who would carry on and pass on the ways of the Jedi to future generations is enough to qualify him as "The Last Jedi" to me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean, Ahsoka doesn't see herself as a Jedi Knight. She uses her training to fight for what she believes in, and feels a kinship with a lot of the Jedi for sure (which is why she uses "we" a lot when talking about Jedi) as they were her people for years, and people will forever see her as a Jedi because she wields the Force and has lightsabers, but she's not a Jedi in the sense that Luke or Obi-Wan were, imo. She didn't agree with their ways, and she walked away from the order for a reason. Not all Force users who aren't evil are Jedi Knights. It was the institution she walked away from, not the faith. Their causes were not her causes. I don't even think she considered the battle against the Sith to be her battle anymore. Doesn't mean she's not allowed to be connected to the Force or use her Jedi training for the causes she believes in. To me, what she did is like walking away from the church, but not from God. Doesn't make her any less a person of faith, but she certainly ain't a priest.

And frankly, I believe there are probably other former Jedi out there too, but they're just not fighting the Jedi cause any more or preaching the Jedi ways. There were too many of them, and the galaxy too big, for there not to be more like Kanan, Yoda and Ahsoka who slipped through the cracks when Order 66 came down, imo. Vader couldn't sense them all. Hell, he didn't even know Ahsoka was alive 'til she was right there, and he had a direct emotional connection to her. Luke being THE ONLY PERSON LEFT IN THE GALAXY WHO KNOWS THE WAYS OF THE FORCE was just never something I needed for the story to work, and seems kinda silly to me, tbh, given the size and scope of this galaxy and its history. Him being the guy who would carry on and pass on the ways of the Jedi to future generations is enough to qualify him as "The Last Jedi" to me.

But that is the story. It has always been the story. Especially as Anakin razed the order, and Luke brought it back. Kylo standing on that salt lick in the middle of nowhere is trying to end the Jedi for good, the way his grandfather failed to when he didn't kill Luke a few decades before. That is an emphasis I think matters, especially as it ties directly to the sacrifices of both him and his father.

Also I think it needs to be pointed out that while Vader might not have felt Ahsoka before, he certainly did after and then watched her magically disappear, and then just went about his business? That's totally nonsensical, especially with how Vader doesn't give up his hunts. That was all on Filoni and a super poor decision imo. If he wanted that, he should of had Ezra pull her out of the rubble, after Vader left imo.