xxshady said:
Please tell me how the fighting scenes are poor? Batman was much stealthier in BB.
Please tell me what stealth has to do with fight choreography. Stealth is what you use to stalk your enemies. Once you've engaged them, stealth is out the window. There was no problem in BB with Batman going stealth; the problem came when he got into fights and we couldn't get a good look at the choreography.
And the fight scene that was chopped up was intended.
How can anyone tell
from viewing the final cut whether the choppiness was intended or simply the result of an editor and director who don't know how to craft good fight scenes? Too many viewers like you don't get the point. The point is that you can't tell from the final cut whether the scenes are intended that way or are just bad scenes by somebody who isn't good at fight scenes.
Question: How do you think the fight scenes would have looked in the hands of a director/editor who is lousy at fight scenes?
they OBVIOUSLY could have edited another way.
Then how do you explain the fact that those particular scenes looked
no different from crappy, choppy fight scenes in lots of
other movies? Are you saying all those other films were intentionally shot that way because of the artistic brilliance of their directors?
E-Mack said:
By the way it was edited, intentional or not, there was nothing there to judge.
Bingo. You see, people, E-Mack is a guy with his head on straight, and everybody should listen to him - especially when he agrees with
me.
Seriously, though, Nolan has explained how he made sure the fights were realistically choreographed, based on the Keysi Fight Method. Well, so what? What good is the choreography
if the audience can't friggin' get a good look at it? That's the point. If Nolan intentionally made those scenes choppy and closeup -
then there was no need for any special choreography.
Gritty is what we're looking for here. Realistic, but also visually appealing. Bourne Identity took that style to a T.
Again, I'm in full agreement with E-Mack. I loved the fight scenes in
Bourne Identity, but not the ones in
Bourne Supremacy. Both were choreographed realistically, but in
Identity the director (Doug Liman) gave us a good look at the moves, whereas in
Supremacy the director (Paul Greengrass) did NOT give us a good look at the moves. Same as with Nolan's fight scenes in BB. (Unfortunately for the Bourne series, Greengrass is also doing the upcoming
Bourne Ultimatum.)
Ronny Shade said:
You know what I did after I saw Batman Begins? I left the theater saying "man, those were some great fight scenes"
All that means is that you're a lousy judge of good and bad fight scenes. Watch
Bourne Identity,
Ong Back,
Fight Club and similar films for truly good fight scenes.
Darknightnomis said:
You want mindless "over the top action" in a Batman movie go see 'Batman and Robin'.
Okay, so let me get this straight: EITHER we have closeup choppy fight scenes, OR we have "mindless over-the-top action"? You mean there's no third option? How about action that suits the story
but is also shot and edited well? Why can't both coexist? I (and E-Mack and others) haven't said we necessarily need "more" or "mindless" action scenes - just
better quality action scenes. Get the difference?
QUESTION for all those who think the BB fights are "good":
What is the point of having choreography if the audience cannot follow the choreography and pick out the moves? Nobody has yet provided a good answer to that basic question.
