The Dark Knight Rises Christopher Nolan Is Doing Batman 3!!!

[RetroNaz]

C'mon guys, really? The ending sucked. The whole Two-Face subplot was contrived and felt incredibly forced. Who really felt for Harvey Dent? Anyone? I sure didn't. The whole thing was rushed and came to an embarresing head at the end with the warehouse scene. Dent dying but not before attempting to kill a kid (and stupidly himself, "I'm about to" was one of the dumbest lines in the movie - referring to punishing Batman).

In addition the whole Batman on the run thing was a bit dumb. There's no reason that they couldn't have blamed it all on Joker. The only people to know differently were Batman, Gordon and a few cops... just about the same amount of people who knew about Dent's murdering spree.

Honestly, whoever said something about it falling apart after the 2 hour mark was spot on... and finally, where in the hell was Joker in an orange jumsuit being thrown into Arkham in the end. I would have killed to see:

INT. ARKHAM ASYLUM - JAIL CELL - NIGHT
The Joker is thrown into a cell. He turns to the camera and smiles as we

FADE TO BLACK:

Nolan really dropped the ball leaving him hanging...

Wait so a guy who had lost his mind and was basically insane after losing the one he loved, half his face and any chance he had at saving the city was part of a stupid ending because he wanted to kill Gordon's son and possibly himself?

Okay.

And having the movie end with the Joker smiling at the camera? Well I'm glad they didn't do that not only because of the Heath Ledger situation, but because this film was called The Dark Knight. Not the Joker.

 

[Solidus]

This will always be up for debate, but I do wonder if the intention was to have the Joker back for the third film. It would certainly change the way we view his climax at the end of TDK.

Yea, it was clear that Nolan was going to continue using the Joker. So his ending in TDK would have maybe been done differently knowing the future, but sadly no one can do this.

But yet again the themes in the end of the film, and structure were wonderfully done. As some people said back when the film came out, Nolan took a very "non-traditional" third act approach, but it worked, its climaxes were not that of action and some giant show down one on one between the Joker. It was more of a battle of "wits" then it was of fists. And that is what made TDK brilliant and stand out with its final act.

 

[Caped Crusader]

I'm............... so HAPPY.

 

[Solidus]

It is joyus I do agree.

 

[RetroNaz]

I'm............... so HAPPY.

Me three t:

 

[Solidus]

Wait so a guy who had lost his mind and was basically insane after losing the one he loved, half his face and any chance he had at saving the city was part of a stupid ending because he wanted to kill Gordon's son and possibly himself?

Okay.

And having the movie end with the Joker smiling at the camera? Well I'm glad they didn't do that not only because of the Heath Ledger situation, but because this film was called The Dark Knight. Not the Joker.

Agreed.

And he tried to say that they'll blame it on "the Joker" would have been better. For a few reasons that would have been horrible. First the theme of the movie is about sacrafice and that Batman does not care about what tarnishes his name because its what he truly does that defines him, not what people say about them.

Batman taking the blame, was thematic and also more logical. The Joker is still alive, and could tell everyone, and allow an investigation, that he did not kill those people that Two-Face did. That's what the Joker wants, he wants people to know that Dent fell, and became a monster, so then everyone will lose heart.

If they blamed the Joker, the Joker would easily deny it and maybe make things much worse. It would be easier just for Bats to take the blame, because with the Joker as a wild cannon there is too much unpredictability. That could backfire in his face if he tries to pin those murders on the Joker. Which would just give fuel to the Joker to play more games with Bats and ruin more things for him.

It was a selfless act, that he knew he could have more control over it by taking the blame. With the Joker there is no control of that story, because he would say something different.

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

Wait so a guy who had lost his mind and was basically insane after losing the one he loved, half his face and any chance he had at saving the city was part of a stupid ending because he wanted to kill Gordon's son and possibly himself?

that's basically what I said, yeah...

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

Agreed.
If they blamed the Joker, the Joker would easily deny it and maybe make things much worse.

Why wouldn't Joker just tell everyone Dent did it? He's still alive, and would hold the same credibility trying to blame Dent as he would trying to save his own name... which of course is very little credibility to begin with. No one would believe Joker, but, assuming they would, like you seem to, then why wouldn't Joker just blow the whistle on Batman's 'selfless' act.

 

[Doc Ock]

I'm............... so HAPPY.

Lets cry in happiness together!

 

[Solidus]

Why wouldn't Joker just tell everyone Dent did it? He's still alive, and would hold the same credibility trying to blame Dent as he would trying to save his own name... which of course is very little credibility to begin with. No one would believe Joker, but, assuming they would, like you seem to, then why wouldn't Joker just blow the whistle on Batman's 'selfless' act.

The Joker likes to see Batman suffer, that's what he is about. So to see everyone after him and hating him, he would be satisfied and no need to stir up the pot.

But even still people would not give Joker credibility, this is true. He could say "Dent killed those people" yet he would have no evidence and no credibility. Yet, if Bats and Gordon said the Joker did it. He could prove that he was not in those areas at that time. I mean the Joker was doing a live feed with his hostages when Dent was killing people. And it was clear the Joker was at the Prewitt building at that time. And all the hostages would say this right away. That: "No the Joker was with us tying us up and so forth and making videos and plans. He was no where else during the time those murders were committed." Which then would give reason to give the Joker some credibility to his statements. Not only that people would begin to wonder why Gordon has blamed some one that did not commit the crime making people begin to investigate something that was proven to be a lie.

So to bypass even this, and not allow this, it would be easier for Bats to say he did it. Because no one knows where he was. Batman is a phantom, something that no one could confirm or deny if he was there. So choosing himself would be the best bet. But if they blamed it on the Joker they right away would be seen as a "hole" in their story. Hostages could say no....it's clear he was with us when these murders happened. That the Joker was some where else when these people were murdered. So it would not work out. But with Bats no one knows anything about him, so if he's the target, no one can say other wise, and the Joker can go ahead and babble that Dent did it but no one would believe him then anyways.

 

[J.Howlett]

Solidus,

Agreed with everything you said about the Dark Knight's third act and the Academy. Does anyone wonder why the Best Picture category went from 5 to 10 this year?

It's a direct result of what happened last year with The Dark Knight and Wall E. The Academy missed it royally last year.

And you're right about Avatar.

 

[RetroNaz]

that's basically what I said, yeah...

Yes it was. And I was pointing out the self explanatory nature of it.

 

[RetroNaz]

Why wouldn't Joker just tell everyone Dent did it? He's still alive, and would hold the same credibility trying to blame Dent as he would trying to save his own name... which of course is very little credibility to begin with. No one would believe Joker, but, assuming they would, like you seem to, then why wouldn't Joker just blow the whistle on Batman's 'selfless' act.

Well he might. It's total fan fiction for us to answer these questions right now. We only know what's happened on screen, and justify why Batman did what he did by what we see on screen.

The sequel may or may not acknowledge what you have pointed out. We'll have to wait and see.

IMO it wasn't Joker's end game to simply say "well he did it". He just wanted to see the White Knight fall and watch the city crumble.

 

[weezerspider]

C'mon guys, really? The ending sucked. The whole Two-Face subplot was contrived and felt incredibly forced. Who really felt for Harvey Dent? Anyone? I sure didn't. The whole thing was rushed and came to an embarresing head at the end with the warehouse scene. Dent dying but not before attempting to kill a kid (and stupidly himself, "I'm about to" was one of the dumbest lines in the movie - referring to punishing Batman).

In addition the whole Batman on the run thing was a bit dumb. There's no reason that they couldn't have blamed it all on Joker. The only people to know differently were Batman, Gordon and a few cops... just about the same amount of people who knew about Dent's murdering spree.

Honestly, whoever said something about it falling apart after the 2 hour mark was spot on... and finally, where in the hell was Joker in an orange jumsuit being thrown into Arkham in the end. I would have killed to see:

INT. ARKHAM ASYLUM - JAIL CELL - NIGHT
The Joker is thrown into a cell. He turns to the camera and smiles as we

FADE TO BLACK:

Nolan really dropped the ball leaving him hanging...

No offense, but thats the worst ending I've heard in awhile. People complain everyone puts too much emphasis on Joker and not Batman, but you want the ending to focus on JOKER? The Ending of TDK was poetic, downright perfect. The dialogue between Gordon and his son leading up to "He is a DARK KNIGHT" is the greatest ending in Comic movie history.

Two-Face attempting to kill himself was dumb? Batman tells him to point the gun at the people who are responsible, so Dent obliges. He'd be a hypocrite if he didn't, and Dent's all about chance. The guys probable fiance just died, his face was blown half to Hell and it never would have happened if there wasn't crooked cops in Gordon's unit. How is that rushed? How is the unrealistic?

Joker could easily say Dent killed those people. He could easily defend himself by requesting the GCPD to ask the hostages. When Joker sees on the tabloids that BATMAN took those fall on himself, Joker will feel as if he won in one aspect. The city may not completely crumble, but it is now against Batman. Thats the first step to making Batman crack which is all Joker wants to do.

 

[Solidus]

No offense, but thats the worst ending I've heard in awhile. People complain everyone puts too much emphasis on Joker and not Batman, but you want the ending to focus on JOKER? The Ending of TDK was poetic, downright perfect. The dialogue between Gordon and his son leading up to "He is a DARK KNIGHT" is the greatest ending in Comic movie history.

Two-Face attempting to kill himself was dumb? Batman tells him to point the gun at the people who are responsible, so Dent obliges. He'd be a hypocrite if he didn't, and Dent's all about chance. The guys probable fiance just died, his face was blown half to Hell and it never would have happened if there wasn't crooked cops in Gordon's unit. How is that rushed? How is the unrealistic?

Joker could easily say Dent killed those people. He could easily defend himself by requesting the GCPD to ask the hostages. When Joker sees on the tabloids that BATMAN took those fall on himself, Joker will feel as if he won in one aspect. The city may not completely crumble, but it is now against Batman. Thats the first step to making Batman crack which is all Joker wants to do.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[CJ]

Batman tells him to point the gun at the people who are responsible, so Dent obliges.

This always bugged me. Batman is trying to save lives. He shouldn't have said to point the gun AT ANYONE. He should've just told him to put the gun down.

 

[Solidus]

This always bugged me. Batman is trying to save lives. He shouldn't have said to point the gun AT ANYONE. He should've just told him to put the gun down.

Well he's trying to save innocent lives. And I'm sure he would rather have the gun pointed at the gun holder then a small child who is completely innocent....that does not make Batman a murderer. It was more of a saying, "point it at those responsible" he is saying that Dent is a hypocrite, he's not literally saying point the gun at yourself, he's saying that there is no reason to want revenge in this way, it was not Gordon's fault, which is what Dent was trying to claim. It was their fault together. The line was not meant literally though Dent took it that way in a sense. It was more of an emotional moment of Batman trying to reason with Dent, not trying to get him to kill innocent people that had nothing to do with his fall. Dent is trying to blame everyone else, and Batman is telling him, no it was all three of us that caused this, not just one or the other. And that Dent is as responsible for Rachael's death as anyone else in the trio.

 

[weezerspider]

This always bugged me. Batman is trying to save lives. He shouldn't have said to point the gun AT ANYONE. He should've just told him to put the gun down.

Sometimes saving the most lives possible means putting other lives in danger. Go ahead and ask Harry Truman about that.

 

[weezerspider]

Well he's trying to save innocent lives. And I'm sure he would rather have the gun pointed at the gun holder then a small child who is completely innocent....that does not make Batman a murderer. It was more of a saying, "point it at those responsible" he is saying that Dent is a hypocrite, he's not literally saying point the gun at yourself, he's saying that there is no reason to want revenge in this way, it was not Gordon's fault, which is what Dent was trying to claim. It was their fault together. The line was not meant literally though Dent took it that way in a sense. It was more of an emotional moment of Batman trying to reason with Dent, not trying to get him to kill innocent people that had nothing to do with his fall. Dent is trying to blame everyone else, and Batman is telling him, no it was all three of us that caused this, not just one or the other. And that Dent is as responsible for Rachael's death as anyone else in the trio.

Agreed

 

[Joker'sHenchman]

I see what you guys are sayin, and, while I disagree and still hold to the fact that the whole Two-Face plot should have been saved and seemed on many levels, sub-par, I can respect the fact that you all so thoroughly enjoyed it and have come up with plausible fan-fiction ideas that counter my, dare I say, equally plausible viewpoint.

As far as the question about the BEST PICTURE category above, the reason why they chose 10 pictures instead of 5 isn't because of The Dark Knight (don't be ludicrous, Heath Ledger won Best Supporting Actor - TDK didn't get "snubbed" like so many on this board seem to think) it was because the Oscars have been doing very poorly in their ratings in the past few years, likely because many/most people haven't seen a lot of the flicks that are on the Best Picture category. In order to increase ratings more popular films like The Blind Side, Up and District 9 were added - which I think is almost an unfair tease to their respective filmmakers considering it will be unlikely that those films will win...

 

[Solidus]

I see what you guys are sayin, and, while I disagree and still hold to the fact that the whole Two-Face plot should have been saved and seemed on many levels, sub-par, I can respect the fact that you all so thoroughly enjoyed it and have come up with plausible fan-fiction ideas that counter my, dare I say, equally plausible viewpoint.

As far as the question about the BEST PICTURE category above, the reason why they chose 10 pictures instead of 5 isn't because of The Dark Knight (don't be ludicrous, Heath Ledger won Best Supporting Actor - TDK didn't get "snubbed" like so many on this board seem to think) it was because the Oscars have been doing very poorly in their ratings in the past few years, likely because many/most people haven't seen a lot of the flicks that are on the Best Picture category. In order to increase ratings more popular films like The Blind Side, Up and District 9 were added - which I think is almost an unfair tease to their respective filmmakers considering it will be unlikely that those films will win...

Hey dude I love great debates, and I'm glad we see it as such. Rarely do we get to have civil conversations on the Internets, so its been a pleasure and I look forward to many more with ya.

What my point was is some saying that this was a major consensus. Its not. The film has won 92 awards from very big people. And critics for the most part praised it very highly as did the general audience and there is evidence of that everywhere,. Not saying some can think differently of course, but the major consensus was the film was a superb comic book adaption and film itself. But that argument was just general overall.

I agree with you on the Oscar thing to a point. Yes they are doing it for ratings, and that I understand. Yet still many did feel it got snubbed. All the industry insiders and big players like the Guilds all gave TDK best film of the year/at least nominated it. And the Academy did not even recognize it as best film. So a lot did feel that was a great oddity. That all these other big events and film insiders praised the film and gave it pic of the year, but the Academy completely ignored it as best picture. So yea I think some have the right to say it was snubbed. Not saying everyone has to feel this way but many did feel it got the cold shoulder.

 

[raybia]

Hey dude I love great debates, and I'm glad we see it as such. Rarely do we get to have civil conversations on the Internets, so its been a pleasure and I look forward to many more with ya.

What my point was is some saying that this was a major consensus. Its not. The film has won 92 awards from very big people. And critics for the most part praised it very highly as did the general audience and there is evidence of that everywhere,. Not saying some can think differently of course, but the major consensus was the film was a superb comic book adaption and film itself. But that argument was just general overall.

I agree with you on the Oscar thing to a point. Yes they are doing it for ratings, and that I understand. Yet still many did feel it got snubbed. All the industry insiders and big players like the Guilds all gave TDK best film of the year/at least nominated it. And the Academy did not even recognize it as best film. So a lot did feel that was a great oddity. That all these other big events and film insiders praised the film and gave it pic of the year, but the Academy completely ignored it as best picture. So yea I think some have the right to say it was snubbed. Not saying everyone has to feel this way but many did feel it got the cold shoulder.

In retrospect I think that Nolan could have re-edited TDK in a way where it could have interested its chances of getting nominated for an Best picture Oscar.

With that said, I really don't think Nolan and Co. sat down and said, "Okay lets make an Oscar worthy Batman movie."

Screw the academy. I've watched enough Oscars to know that its political and very very bias. In many cases the wrong person or movie wins along with "makeup Oscars" for people who were previously wronged. Very screwed up.

The real award that TDK received was the widespread acclaim by critics and moviegoers alike along with the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time and #1 comic book adaptation.

I personally just want Nolan to make the best possible sequel to TDK possible while still giving us the essence of the character.

 

[Solidus]

In retrospect I think that Nolan could have re-edited TDK in a way where it could have interested its chances of getting nominated for an Best picture Oscar.

With that said, I really don't think Nolan and Co. sat down and said, "Okay lets make an Oscar worthy Batman movie."

Screw the academy. I've watched enough Oscars to know that its political and very very bias. In many cases the wrong person or movie wins along with "makeup Oscars" for people who were previously wronged. Very screwed up.

The real award that TDK received was the widespread acclaim by critics and moviegoers alike along with the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time and #1 comic book adaptation.

I personally just want Nolan to make the best possible sequel to TDK possible while still giving us the essence of the character.

Maybe so. And I agree with what you said. To me the editing was fine, but yea in hindsight with any film one can find flaws to fix. To me the pacing and editing was fine. But yea, also the film was very loved by its peers in the industry aka the guilds. So yea I agree. Enough of TDK. I guess its time to get jacked for B3 as you said!!

I just hope they announce the title during Inceptions release or something.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Falls apart after the 2 hr mark my ass. I enjoyed the hell out of those last 30 minutes.

Plus1.

 

[Dark Knight]

He actually is somewhat hitting on a solid point. The climax of the film involving sonar, SWAT, and ferry boats is what cost the film a nomination. I remember Kris Tapley at InContention saying that he talked to a number of Academy voters who liked or loved the first 2 hours of it but felt that the ending killed it.

The Academy is full of crap. Look at Avatar.....the story and narrative have been done before (Dances With Wolves anyone) and the Avatar was waaaaay to long and the sci fi aspects are a bit outrageous.

But then chances of it winning the Best Picture nod is high and I wonder why? Maybe because the entire film industry and Academy voters were heavliy investedd in Camerons creation and because the Academy loves Cameron from Titanic?

No matter how good a comic genre film is.....the Academy will ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS look to snub it from Oscar contention.

However, since the Academy has done a slap in the face move by adding 10 Best Pic nominees to increase ratings, the next Batman film will most likely be one of the 10 token nominations in 3 years.

The Academy and it's voters are hypocrites and are a freakin joke....end of story.