Christopher Nolan's Inception

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As for the collapsing city that Cobb and Mal created, it's entirely guess work/assumption if it was limbo or not. Just like most if not all of the theories people have, while very interesting and thought provoking they rely on a really large amount of assumption.
 
You only reach limbo via death if your body in the real world is under heavy sedation which wasn't used until they met Yusef. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo because they went down to a 4th level of dreaming, the third is the last into someone's mind before you go so far(fourth)that it's dead space, ie; limbo. That's how Cobb and Mal got to limbo originally, they went past the 3rd level of the subconcious.

The way Cobb got replaced in limbo when he was already down there from going into the 4th level of subconcious with Ariadne, was that he died on the first level by drowning in the van. So it basically reset him in limbo, at first he was in the building with Mal telling her he would stay if she let Fischer go, next thing(after he drowns in the van)he awakens in limbo again but in the water.

Thank you figs!
 
As for the collapsing city that Cobb and Mal created, it's entirely guess work/assumption if it was limbo or not. Just like most if not all of the theories people have, while very interesting and thought provoking they rely on a really large amount of assumption.

It's a limbo you only share with the one you bring in is my guess.
 
Wait...

Cobb and Ariadne go to the fourth dream level (not limbo), to get Fischer? This makes more sense as people have been saying that Fischer was only unconscious. Then, when Cobb, drowns in level 1 in the van, that sends him to limbo with Saito? Then they shoot themselves to kick all the way back to the plane and reality.

That totally makes sense!
 
Wait...

Cobb and Ariadne go to the fourth dream level (not limbo), to get Fischer? This makes more sense as people have been saying that Fischer was only unconscious. Then, when Cobb, drowns in level 1 in the van, that sends him to limbo with Saito? Then they shoot themselves to kick all the way back to the plane and reality.

That totally makes sense!

Yeah I totally just rewrote my kicks explanation above because I forgot about that. Even I am confusing myself lol

But yes, it all makes sense when you account for Fischer... who did DIE in the 3rd level and that's why he went to limbo.
 
You only reach limbo via death if your body in the real world is under heavy sedation which wasn't used until they met Yusef. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo because they went down to a 4th level of dreaming, the third is the last into someone's mind before you go so far(fourth)that it's dead space, ie; limbo. That's how Cobb and Mal got to limbo originally, they went past the 3rd level of the subconcious.

The way Cobb got replaced in limbo when he was already down there from going into the 4th level of subconcious with Ariadne, was that he died on the first level by drowning in the van. So it basically reset him in limbo, at first he was in the building with Mal telling her he would stay if she let Fischer go, next thing(after he drowns in the van)he awakens in limbo again but in the water.


That is a great explanation. Well done Figs. :yay:
 
You only reach limbo via death if your body in the real world is under heavy sedation which wasn't used until they met Yusef. Cobb and Ariadne were in limbo because they went down to a 4th level of dreaming, the third is the last into someone's mind before you go so far(fourth)that it's dead space, ie; limbo. That's how Cobb and Mal got to limbo originally, they went past the 3rd level of the subconcious.

The way Cobb got replaced in limbo when he was already down there from going into the 4th level of subconcious with Ariadne, was that he died on the first level by drowning in the van. So it basically reset him in limbo, at first he was in the building with Mal telling her he would stay if she let Fischer go, next thing(after he drowns in the van)he awakens in limbo again but in the water.

Oh ok, got that. However,

as the depper you get into dream levels n the closer you reach the state of limbo, the less you have any connection w/ the actual reality or the first levels of dreams (ie if sumthin happens in the first level, there will be no impact on the 4th), how *** Cobb awakens in limbo, but in the water, which can be perceived as the consequence of what happened in the first level?

Also, I dont really understand one more thing.

If to get out of limbo you need to kill urself, what makes it different from a regular dream. In other words, to get out of a dream u need to die, just like with limbo. So whats the actual difference other than that limbo isn't someone's dream n you can stay there for the rest of your life, if you want.
 
Yeah I totally just rewrote my kicks explanation above because I forgot about that. Even I am confusing myself lol

But yes, it all makes sense when you account for Fischer... who did DIE in the 3rd level and that's why he went to limbo.

But if Fiesher did die in the 3rd level and the next one, as scifi wolf said, if not li,bo, then how could he appear in it?
 
Oh ok, got that. However,

as the depper you get into dream levels n the closer you reach the state of limbo, the less you have any connection w/ the actual reality or the first levels of dreams (ie if sumthin happens in the first level, there will be no impact on the 4th), how *** Cobb awakens in limbo, but in the water, which can be perceived as the consequence of what happened in the first level?

Also, I dont really understand one more thing.

If to get out of limbo you need to kill urself, what makes it different from a regular dream. In other words, to get out of a dream u need to die, just like with limbo. So whats the actual difference other than that limbo isn't someone's dream n you can stay there for the rest of your life, if you want.

I really think where he ended up in limbo to Saito had everything to do with how he died in all of the levels. Remember, he first reached limbo with Ariadne by going through dreams.

And it's different because it's hard to remember that you're in a dream and it could just keep going and going.
 
But if Fiesher did die in the 3rd level and the next one, as scifi wolf said, if not li,bo, then how could he appear in it?

It is limbo. Even Cobb says to Ariadne that he has to go deeper to find Saito.
 
I really think where he ended up in limbo to Saito had everything to do with how he died in all of the levels. Remember, he first reached limbo with Ariadne by going through dreams.

And it's different because it's hard to remember that you're in a dream and it could just keep going and going.

It is limbo. Even Cobb says to Ariadne that he has to go deeper to find Saito.

Okay, now I am getting it. I still dont remember anything about the fact that you can reach limbo not only after killing urself, but also after going from the 3rd to 4th level. Gotta watch the film again.
 
Okay, now I am getting it. I still dont remember anything about the fact that you can reach limbo not only after killing urself, but also after going from the 3rd to 4th level. Gotta watch the film again.

Not killing yourself. Dying. Nobody killed themselves to reach limbo in the film. They killed themselves to get out of limbo.
 
Not killing yourself. Dying. Nobody killed themselves to reach limbo in the film. They killed themselves to get out of limbo.

I didn't mean it specifically. Either way you will die n in the end you'll get into limbo, where you will need to die again to wake up.

One more thing that made me scratch my head is how did they create that device to get into dreams? How did they *** up w/ it? I doubt anything was mentioned about that in the film.
 
I didn't mean it specifically. Either way you will die n in the end you'll get into limbo, where you will need to die again to wake up.

One more thing that made me scratch my head is how did they create that device to get into dreams? How did they *** up w/ it? I doubt anything was mentioned about that in the film.

Well, I'm under the belief that the whole movie was a psychoanalytical dream brought on by Cobb to help him get over the death of his wife. The heist, the machine... all made up by him as he's lucid dreaming.

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]I've been really thinking about what Nolan has done with the beginning of the film. How you see flashforwards of Cobb and Saito in limbo.

I don't think it's just an interesting narrative decision for the sake of it.

Have you ever had an idea for a movie or story that came to you? Usually it starts with some images that don't make much sense, and then later you feel in the gaps to conform that image.

That's exactly what Nolan is doing here... or rather, Cobb is doing. If the whole movie is a dream, he is creating his dream based on a few of these images. That's why the scene goes straight to the same location with Saito, Cobb and co. And guess what the first words out of Cobb's mouth are?

"What is the most resilient parasite? An idea!"[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
 
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Good stuff from Ebert about the film's word of mouth:

"Inception" has entered into the category of a film people think they must see so they can participate in dinner conversations.

http://***********/ebertchicago/status/19341801998
 
I didn't mean it specifically. Either way you will die n in the end you'll get into limbo, where you will need to die again to wake up.

One more thing that made me scratch my head is how did they create that device to get into dreams? How did they *** up w/ it? I doubt anything was mentioned about that in the film.

Yes there is. Arthur and Cobb explain to Ariandne how the military created the device to train soldiers in shared dreaming.
 
Yes there is. Arthur and Cobb explain to Ariandne how the military created the device to train soldiers in shared dreaming.

Ok, but how did they get the device? How does the whole technical process work? I mean what is inside the device?

Nolan made an excellent film, but a lot of stuff seemed a bit vague, at least it did to me.
 
Ok, but how did they get the device? How does the whole technical process work? I mean what is inside the device?

Nolan made an excellent film, but a lot of stuff seemed a bit vague, at least it did to me.

Nolan also didn't tell you where the Joker came from either. The point of the story wasn't about the origin of the dream sharing device, the point of the story was Cobb's catharsis.
 
Ok, but how did they get the device? How does the whole technical process work? I mean what is inside the device?

Nolan made an excellent film, but a lot of stuff seemed a bit vague, at least it did to me.
if i literally had to sit there and be explained what inside the device makes it work...that would be boring an completely unneeded...all you need to know is it helps them get in to dreams and enjoy the dang movie lol
 
Oh ok, got that. However,

as the depper you get into dream levels n the closer you reach the state of limbo, the less you have any connection w/ the actual reality or the first levels of dreams (ie if sumthin happens in the first level, there will be no impact on the 4th), how *** Cobb awakens in limbo, but in the water, which can be perceived as the consequence of what happened in the first level?

The explanation for that involves the subtleties. When the van is rolling over or falling you can feel it on the next conscious level down(Arthur)since both of the those levels of consciousness are so close together. Much like the time difference where things go faster the deeper you go, only something crazy happening on the 2nd level(Arthur's)would affect the 3rd level, basically(and it does require a bit of assuming and suspension of disbelief)if two levels are too far apart the sudden change(whether it's the van falling, or jumping Fischer back to life with the defibrilator(sp?)pads)won't affect the deeper one unless it's that much closer to the dream level where the action is happening.
Cobb awakens in limbo because he died in the van, that's where things differ from normal reactions. Death superscedes that, since technically he was on the 1st level when he died, normally he would have woken up but due to the heavy sedation he had no where to go but limbo.

Also, I dont really understand one more thing.

If to get out of limbo you need to kill urself, what makes it different from a regular dream. In other words, to get out of a dream u need to die, just like with limbo. So whats the actual difference other than that limbo isn't someone's dream n you can stay there for the rest of your life, if you want.

The difference is that you are so far into someone's(or your own)subconscious that it's dead space. Once again this is following Nolan's ideas/rules so it does require a bit of suspension of disbelief. By dead space we are meant to assume that it's so low that your mind doesn't have anything in that part of the brain/subconscious. That's why it is empty and if you go down there you can create from scratch.

In any of the 3 dream levels you can also stay there as long as you want, so long as you don't kill yourself and you have the privacy(like Cobb and Mal did by doing it in their own home)to where no one will interrupt your dream.

Ok, but how did they get the device? How does the whole technical process work? I mean what is inside the device?

I'm not going to get into how they made the device but using some guess work, around the big button in the middle there are cylinders(best description I can come up with). We have to assume that when you push the big button(as seen in the film)it connects some energy or chemical to those cylinders which enables everyone to share the same dream space. The iv's they stick in their arm must be connected to those cylinders. Just like in the den they had enough to have over 10 guys in the same dream space. I imagine that might have taken more than 1 of those devices.[/spoiler]

Nolan made an excellent film, but a lot of stuff seemed a bit vague, at least it did to me.

He explains just about everything but there are some things that due require assumption and suspension of disbelief. I've seen the movie twice so far and once you understand and piece everything together it's a very tight script/film.
 
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Ok, but how did they get the device? How does the whole technical process work? I mean what is inside the device?

Nolan made an excellent film, but a lot of stuff seemed a bit vague, at least it did to me.

Its called using your imagination. Maybe you should use it. Thats like asking how the flux capacitor in Back to future works.

I hate that some filmgoers need to have every little aspect explained to them in order to suspend disbelief.
 
Have to disagree. With the slicked back hair and suit, I felt JGL looked old enough. Franco also looks fairly young still and to be honest, thinking of Franco in the role he would have been basically playing that character he normally plays. Really the only role he has done that seemed different then his normal schtick was playing the silly stoner in Pineapple Express. For the most part I like Franco but I haven't seen enough versatality to prove himself above the level of just being an "ok actor"

With that being said, i'm not saying JGL is a phenomenal actor or better than Franco. I'm simply saying that I think Franco would have made the role a bit boring if that makes any sense.
Watch Franco in Milk, he has the versatility to go past the stoner stereotype.

Franco and JGL are both talented, and imo, far more talented than what this role asks for. This goes for pretty much every role in the movie, except maybe Cobb and Mal. But I totally understand why Nolan cast this bunch. In spite of limited character development, the sheer talent combined added gravitas to these roles that ultimately made them authentic to the audiences. Lesser actors would have revealed the true nature of these parts, faceless character tropes of the heist genre.

Well, I'm under the belief that the whole was a psychoanalytical dream brought on by Cobb to help him get over the death of his wife. The heist, the machine... all made up by him as he's lucid dreaming.

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]I've been really thinking about what Nolan has done with the beginning of the film. How you see flashforwards of Cobb and Saito in limbo.

I don't think it's just an interesting narrative decision for the sake of it.

Have you ever had an idea for a movie or story that came to you? Usually it starts with some images that don't make much sense, and then later you feel in the gaps to conform that image.

That's exactly what Nolan is doing here... or rather, Cobb is doing. If the whole movie is a dream, he is creating his dream based on a few of these images. That's why the scene goes straight to the same location with Saito, Cobb and co. And guess what the first words out of Cobb's mouth are?

"What is the most resilient parasite? An idea!"[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
Personally I think Nolan deliberately left all these red herrings and holes, as the setup for his own cinematic inception (the ending). I've noticed that 90% of these theories take a scene or line from the movie, and completely run with it to form a series of events to explain the entire story. Incidentally not unlike an architect crafting the general blueprint of a dream, with the mark's subconscious filling in all the details that suit their memory and biases.

The fact that most of these theories are conceivable without any large gaping flaw, despite leading to completely different endpoints, should be telling. The ambiguity left at certain portions of the movie allows the structure of the narrative to be malleable. This fluidity paves the way for the last shot to do its job; to question what just happened, to rearrange what was once a straightforward narrative at it's malleable points, and ultimately come out with a different product.

This post is still the reigning champ to me. It covers every ground from a logical standpoint, not relying on omitted scenes or interpretive meanings that would otherwise destroy any given theory. It's not particularly surprising that the one that works best ends up being the most simplest, and in fact, the original interpretation everyone would have come out of that theater carrying...had it not been for the ending.

After letting the film linger on for a week and sitting back watching these rampant discussions, it's clearer than ever that we as a general populace are Mal to Nolan's Cobb. He's given us a platform to admire something unlike anything we've ever seen. He's betrayed us by planting a virus that's clearly taken a hold of our perceptions. You take the two main themes prevalent in the story; letting go of a firm belief & losing perception of reality: that IS the audience. Look at this place, listen to what you and your friends have been discussing these past seven days. It's taken a life of it's own, just as Nolan plainly dictated to us.

However, like Cobb, Nolan wants us to accept it for what it is. A fantasy ride. And perhaps it's time to hop off because we actually started believing in what was essentially a trick. This ties in to the final theme of the movie; the leap of faith. To reach your goal you have to place your trust in someone else that they'll help take you there. Cobb asks of this from both Mal and Fischer. Saito of Cobb. I think Nolan is asking this from us, as a director, that he'll safely take Cobb back to where he belongs. That's where we want Cobb to be as well, we're so emotionally invested in him that we seek that happy ending. The closure. This bond wouldn't be so gripping, the struggle not as difficult, if there wasn't an equally counteracting force playing opposite of Nolan, fighting for our trust. Cue in Nolan's cinematic inception. It's all full circle.






Aaaaaand that was a whole lot lengthier than what I was only intending to be a single paragraph. :o
 
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