The Dark Knight Concerns about TDK

[Infinity9999x]

They also did not turn the public away from them or cause the fanbase to split ala SR.
They mostly both got mixed reviews and broke even with DVD sales.
Not quite the same as a Batman and Robin which is what Nolan may end up with depending on how people take his take on the Joker or it may split the fanbase ala SR neither of which I would call a good thing.

Bad WOM may kill DK if people just do not accept the Joker applying makeup to look the way he does or if he just isn't the Joker we know and love

And no I do not know the inside details of whether it is true or not but that is what has me worried.

Okay, to even think that Nolan could end up with a B&R is COMPLETELY foolish. Look at what the man gave us with BB. Even if this movie ends up being a SM3 it won't be a B&R. Nolan would literally have to get pissed and say ***** everyone to give us a B&R.

Also, we need to realize that if Joker applies makeup the general audience WILL NOT CARE. And you know who makes up 90% of moviegoers? Not comic fans, but the general public. The general public won't give a dang is Joker applies makeup, heck most of them don't even know that Joker is supposed to be Perma-white, so the issue of how Joker looks is not going to effect how well this movie does at the B.O.

What will effect this movie's B.O. is if Nolan doesn't let it get too bloated with too many villians (i.e. like SM3) How enjoyable the action is, and how well the general public will be able to understand the plot.

The last factor could be a big one too, because we all know that Nolan likes complicated story lines, I just hope he doesn't get it too complicated. He's got to make sure that the general public and not just comic fans can understand what's going on in this movie.

 

[Victarion]

My only concerns right now: Proper development for Harvey Dent, seeing Joker without any makeup, whatsoever.

 

[NateGray]

I'm not trying to make you see their point of view. You stated that bad WOM will kill the movie. It's not about opinion. There are X people like you who will spread bad WOM because of the Joker makeup. I assume you'll tell them why you say the movie is bad. I guess they'll judge if your reasons are good enough to not see it. My point is, the X number isn't that big and those reasons, IMO, are not strong enough to make a general movie-goer to avoid the movie.
Last, I didn't try to put words in your mouth. I honestly without insulting you think that you make too big of a deal the Joker makeup (for instance) and how this will affect the movie. That is all. nothing more, nothing less.

Well I make it a big deal because I didn't think people would mind the cloud galactus and damn was I wrong....

I mean I understood the reasoning the wanted Surfer but could not afford to do him and galactus with there budget but could not do one without the other and WOM because of that is IMO what killed FF2.

Cloud galactus
=
Joker putting on makeup
At least that is my reasoning anyways.

I really want this one to be as good as BB but as I have said before with Nolan doing his best to ground Batman in reality I do not think joker is such a good villain choice.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Well I make it a big deal because I didn't think people would mind the cloud galactus and damn was I wrong....

I mean I understood the reasoning the wanted Surfer but could not afford to do him and galactus with there budget but could not do one without the other and WOM because of that is IMO what killed FF2.

Cloud galactus
=
Joker putting on makeup
At least that is my reasoning anyways.

I really want this one to be as good as BB but as I have said before with Nolan doing his best to ground Batman in reality I do not think joker is such a good villain choice.

People DIDN'T mind the cloud Galactus thing. I went to the FF movie with 10 of my friends. All of them thought it was a "meh" movie. But when they criticized it, NO ONE said anything about Galactus being a cloud.

I read about five reviews on the FF4:ROTSS movie, and you know what, NONE of the reviewers said anything about Galactus being a cloud.

You know why that is? BECAUSE THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW WHO GALACTUS IS. The only people who cared what Galactus looked like was the comic community, and we make up a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small portion of the total number of people who watch movies.

That's not an opinion, that is fact. Comic book fans don't even make up 10% of the total number of people who go to movies.

 

[NateGray]

Okay, to even think that Nolan could end up with a B&R is COMPLETELY foolish. Look at what the man gave us with BB. Even if this movie ends up being a SM3 it won't be a B&R. Nolan would literally have to get pissed and say ***** everyone to give us a B&R.

Also, we need to realize that if Joker applies makeup the general audience WILL NOT CARE. And you know who makes up 90% of moviegoers? Not comic fans, but the general public. The general public won't give a dang is Joker applies makeup, heck most of them don't even know that Joker is supposed to be Perma-white, so the issue of how Joker looks is not going to effect how well this movie does at the B.O.

What will effect this movie's B.O. is if Nolan doesn't let it get too bloated with too many villians (i.e. like SM3) How enjoyable the action is, and how well the general public will be able to understand the plot.

The last factor could be a big one too, because we all know that Nolan likes complicated story lines, I just hope he doesn't get it too complicated. He's got to make sure that the general public and not just comic fans can understand what's going on in this movie.

Your opinions are no more fact than mine and neither of us knows how well the general audience will accept Joker applying makeup.
Me I think they will not like it and give bad WOM, I know I will not like it and my limited number of friends will be told I did not like it and that depending on how I like the rest of the movie may make them see it or not.
You do not think they will care or notice, again I do not think of the general audience as idiots like others here seem to.
The BR comparison is a an extreme example and while you may not think its possible let me assure you it is even as extreme as it is.

 

[Figs]

Well I make it a big deal because I didn't think people would mind the cloud galactus and damn was I wrong....

I mean I understood the reasoning the wanted Surfer but could not afford to do him and galactus with there budget but could not do one without the other and WOM because of that is IMO what killed FF2.

Cloud galactus
=
Joker putting on makeup
At least that is my reasoning anyways.

I really want this one to be as good as BB but as I have said before with Nolan doing his best to ground Batman in reality I do not think joker is such a good villain choice.

In your own views that's fair what you said about Cloud galactus = Joker putting on makeup. As for speaking for the general audience it would then go into the category of complete and utter ignorance. The general audience who didn't know what Kirby's Galactus was or looked like would have no idea that it was changed for the movie. Drexx said it the best and with facts. The main reason FF2 didn't do so great was because of the lackluster first one.

 

[Figs]

Your opinions are no more fact than mine and neither of us knows how well the general audience will accept Joker applying makeup.
Me I think they will not like it and give bad WOM, I know I will not like it and my limited number of friends will be told I did not like it and that depending on how I like the rest of the movie may make them see it or not.
You do not think they will care or notice, again I do not think of the general audience as idiots like others here seem to.
The BR comparison is a an extreme example and while you may not think its possible let me assure you it is even as extreme as it is.

I also don't think of the general audience as idiots but them as well as your friends not seeing a movie simply because you told them "It's teh painted face" is moronic since it shows those individuals can't think for themselves.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Your opinions are no more fact than mine and neither of us knows how well the general audience will accept Joker applying makeup.
Me I think they will not like it and give bad WOM, I know I will not like it and my limited number of friends will be told I did not like it and that depending on how I like the rest of the movie may make them see it or not.
You do not think they will care or notice, again I do not think of the general audience as idiots like others here seem to.
The BR comparison is a an extreme example and while you may not think its possible let me assure you it is even as extreme as it is.

No we don't but I'd be prepared to be you big money that I'm right on this. Why you ask?

It's not because I think the gen. public is stupid, and you're taking the wrong idea by saying that. It's because the general public doesn't read comics, hence that they won't know Joker is supposed to be perma white.

Just because they don't know doesn't make them stupid, that would be like a nuclear physicist calling us stupid because we don't know the latest theories on the latest NASA technology. It's not that we're stupid, it's just that we don't read the same stuff a nuclear physicist does.

So, that's why I'm saying the general public won't care about Joker applying makeup. Because Why should they? They don't know that Joker is supposed to be Perma white, they're not going to be angry about something they don't know.


And no, Nolan making a B&R is not possible. Unless he starts taking acid and goes on a rampage.

 

[NateGray]

People DIDN'T mind the cloud Galactus thing. I went to the FF movie with 10 of my friends. All of them thought it was a "meh" movie. But when they criticized it, NO ONE said anything about Galactus being a cloud.

I read about five reviews on the FF4:ROTSS movie, and you know what, NONE of the reviewers said anything about Galactus being a cloud.

You know why that is? BECAUSE THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW WHO GALACTUS IS. The only people who cared what Galactus looked like was the comic community, and we make up a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry small portion of the total number of people who watch movies.

That's not an opinion, that is fact. Comic book fans don't even make up 10% of the total number of people who go to movies.

Hmmm when did I ever say comic book fans make up any percentage of the movie going audience???

Oh wait
I NEVER EVEN MENTION IT

I get it according to you Nolan can do no wrong and well I do not share your faith and using CAPS does not change my mind it only makes me think you have no points and are just trying to force your opinions on people.

I have voiced my concerns and until I read more or see the movie they are not changing and your attacking my reasons does not change them.

 

[NateGray]

No we don't but I'd be prepared to be you big money that I'm right on this. Why you ask?

It's not because I think the gen. public is stupid, and you're taking the wrong idea by saying that. It's because the general public doesn't read comics, hence that they won't know Joker is supposed to be perma white.

Just because they don't know doesn't make them stupid, that would be like a nuclear physicist calling us stupid because we don't know the latest theories on the latest NASA technology. It's not that we're stupid, it's just that we don't read the same stuff a nuclear physicist does.

So, that's why I'm saying the general public won't care about Joker applying makeup. Because Why should they? They don't know that Joker is supposed to be Perma white, they're not going to be angry about something they don't know.


And no, Nolan making a B&R is not possible. Unless he starts taking acid and goes on a rampage.

They care because there only medium in this area the original movie which I would guess most people have seen he does not apply makeup and it is shown how it is a permanent affect.
So yes I think they may mind
Also FYI when voicing opinions there is no right and wrong so please spare me the reason I am right crap kktnx.

 

[Figs]

Hmmm when did I ever say comic book fans make up any percentage of the movie going audience???

Oh wait
I NEVER EVEN MENTION IT

I get it according to you Nolan can do no wrong and well I do not share your faith and using CAPS does not change my mind it only makes me think you have no points and are just trying to force your opinions on people.

I have voiced my concerns and until I read more or see the movie they are not changing and your attacking my reasons does not change them.

You never said it directly but it was implied. You were making it out that the movie can and just might do bad because of Joker being changed to applying makeup. We were all telling you that that's horse**** because only certain hardcore fans will be pissed about it. Said fans only make up a tiny percentage of movie goers. The majority is the general audience who won't know let alone care if Joker's skin is perma white or not. So for them they could still love the hell out of the movie even with a Joker who puts on makeup.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Hmmm when did I ever say comic book fans make up any percentage of the movie going audience???

Oh wait
I NEVER EVEN MENTION IT

Okay, I was making that point that the general audience will not care about Joker applying makeup I posted my reasons on why I think this above.

I get it according to you Nolan can do no wrong and well I do not share your faith and using CAPS does not change my mind it only makes me think you have no points and are just trying to force your opinions on people.

Do not attempt to put words into my mouth. I don't like it when anyone tries to generalize what I'm saying, or when someone tries to shove me into a group to try to make a point.

I have never said that I was in support of Joker using whiteface, in fact I'm very against it. I was merely posting my views on why this feature will not hurt the movie.

 

[NateGray]

I also don't think of the general audience as idiots but them as well as your friends not seeing a movie simply because you told them "It's teh painted face" is moronic since it shows those individuals can't think for themselves.

Gee maybe thats why I said they ask me and I give them my opinion and they MAY OR MAY NOT SEE IT.
Yep they cannot think for themselves aright any other lame attacks you want to try,.....

When quoting someone its best not to mention something that I have already said as an attack on me it doesn't seem like you read my post at all and if you are not going to read them do not reply.

 

[Infinity9999x]

They care because there only medium in this area the original movie which I would guess most people have seen he does not apply makeup and it is shown how it is a permanent affect.
So yes I think they may mind
Also FYI when voicing opinions there is no right and wrong so please spare me the reason I am right crap kktnx.

The general public have long forgotten what happened in B89. It's an 18 year old movie. I'm a senior in high school, and most of my friends (who are the targeted age range for this movie) don't even remember that Jack Nicholson and Micheal Keaton were in a Batman movie. They get it mixed up with Batman Forever, because that was the big Batman movie for our generation.

You can't expect people to remember small details from an 18 year old movie and be mad about it later. If this were true, then how come the general public wasn't up in arms that the Joker didn't kill Batman's parents?

 

[Figs]

Gee maybe thats why I said they ask me and I give them my opinion and they MAY OR MAY NOT SEE IT.
Yep they cannot think for themselves aright any other lame attacks you want to try,.....

When quoting someone its best not to mention something that I have already said as an attack on me it doesn't seem like you read my post at all and if you are not going to read them do not reply.

That wasn't an attack, don't be so sensitive. It's the fact that when people hold someone's opinion in high reguard like that. That they may or may not see it because of what you said. It's still that option of not seeing it because of someone else's opinion. A true individual would judge from the trailers alone instead of asking people if it's worth seeing or not.

 

[NateGray]

Okay, I was making that point that the general audience will not care about Joker applying makeup I posted my reasons on why I think this above.



Do not attempt to put words into my mouth. I don't like it when anyone tries to generalize what I'm saying, or when someone tries to shove me into a group to try to make a point.

I have never said that I was in support of Joker using whiteface, infact I'm very against it. I was merely posting my views on why this feature will not hurt the movie.

And I had posted mine which you and FigmanJ promptly attacked.
I even followed up with more reasoning why I do not think they will like it.
they are my concerns and reasons in a post called concerns about TDK

I apologize for putting words in your mouth though that is wrong and I should not have done it.

 

[Gianakin_]

They care because there only medium in this area the original movie which I would guess most people have seen he does not apply makeup and it is shown how it is a permanent affect.
So yes I think they may mind
Also FYI when voicing opinions there is no right and wrong so please spare me the reason I am right crap kktnx.

Let me put it this way, since you mention B&R: People hated it. Why?
Because Bane wasn't a Mexican fairly intelligent criminal? Because Freeze was not his comic couterpart? No. The hated it because the movie was badly made.
In fact, Freeze was pretty faithful, if you exclude his 8-yr-old behavior. The public didn't care. They saw Arnold being a chimp. A big guy in a mask being a chimp. Clooney playing like a Joke. Bad effect. Bad action scenes.
So, I'm saying that you and others like you who will spread bad WOM if Joker is in makeup, will not affect the movie's performance, because if the movie itself (NOT the adaptation) is good, they won't care.

 

[Figs]

And I had posted mine which you and FigmanJ promptly attacked.
I even followed up with more reasoning why I do not think they will like it.
they are my concerns and reasons in a post called concerns about TDK

I apologize for putting words in your mouth though that is wrong and I should not have done it.

Hey, I wasn't doing any attacking. It's called an argument/discussion or debate. I was giving my response to what you had said and you did the same. If someone were to attack it would usually be something childish and insulting like name calling.

 

[NateGray]

The general public have long forgotten what happened in B89. It's an 18 year old movie. I'm a senior in high school, and most of my friends (who are the targeted age range for this movie) don't even remember that Jack Nicholson and Micheal Keaton were in a Batman movie. They get it mixed up with Batman Forever, because that was the big Batman movie for our generation.

You can't expect people to remember small details from an 18 year old movie and be mad about it later. If this were true, then how come the general public wasn't up in arms that the Joker didn't kill Batman's parents?

You are my nephews age a couple years younger in fact and he remembers that movie quite well from seeing it on HBO etc.
I do not have tons of people to go on so my sampling may be small but Everyone I know seems to think Jack did an awesome Joker though and that he may be tough to top.
that is the general conversation between me and non comic book fans when talking about TDK

 

[Infinity9999x]

And I had posted mine which you and FigmanJ promptly attacked.
I even followed up with more reasoning why I do not think they will like it.
they are my concerns and reasons in a post called concerns about TDK

I apologize for putting words in your mouth though that is wrong and I should not have done it.

That's alright. I'm sorry for coming on more aggressively then I meant to. I can come off more forceful then I mean to when I try to make a point.

 

[Motown Marvel]

im sure a 100 people have said this already, but my 3 biggest concerns thus far are the new batsuit (which looks like s#!t), the joker wearing make-up (huh?), and the lack of recounting the chemical bath (which i think is a necessity).

 

[Crook]

Gee maybe thats why I said they ask me and I give them my opinion and they MAY OR MAY NOT SEE IT.

That's a bit....redundantly stating the obvious.

"Guys, if I shoot a person in the head, there is a slight chance, the calculations of the person conceivably dying may or may not equal the probability of instant death"

 

[Figs]

im sure a 100 people have said this already, but my 3 biggest concerns thus far are the new batsuit (which looks like s#!t), the joker wearing make-up (huh?), and the lack of recounting the chemical bath (which i think is a necessity).

Although I would prefer perma white skin as well, does showing it again and by chemical bath that important? Like would you still be bitter/disappointed if he had perma white skin but it doesn't show or say how he got it?

My concerns are Harvey Dent screentime and character depth..........that's it for the most part. If Joker's skin isn't perma white it won't ruin the movie for me. As for the new batsuit, Im glad it's leaning towards the grey of the comics but think they should have made the bat symbol on his chest stand out.

 

[NateGray]

That wasn't an attack, don't be so sensitive. It's the fact that when people hold someone's opinion in high reguard like that. That they may or may not see it because of what you said. It's still that option of not seeing it because of someone else's opinion. A true individual would judge from the trailers alone instead of asking people if it's worth seeing or not.

They ask me because to them I am the authority on that type of movie.
When you have 5k+ comic books thats what you get.
Them seeing or not based on what I tell them is there own business, but i would like to think i steer them in the right direction as if I like something they usually do but I have been wrong before so something I dislike they have liked when they do eventually see it on DVD or pay per view etc.


If you are not attacking my opinion I apologize I get a bit touchy when posting because I have been attacked for posting my opinions before.
So yeh a bit touchy when posting as I can not understand attacking someone opinion.

 

[Figs]

They ask me because to them I am the authority on that type of movie.
When you have 5k+ comic books thats what you get.
Them seeing or not based on what I tell them is there own business, but i would like to think i steer them in the right direction as if I like something they usually do but I have been wrong before so something I dislike they have liked when they do eventually see it on DVD or pay per view etc.


If you are not attacking my opinion I apologize I get a bit touchy when posting because I have been attacked for posting my opinions before.
So yeh a bit touchy when posting as I can not understand attacking someone opinion.

I fully understand, it happens to just about everyone.