The Dark Knight Concerns about TDK

And again I disagree because people like me will give it bad WOM if that is the case.
People also said the average person would not care Galactus was a cloud well fans cared and cried so much the movie pretty much failed and that cloud is the main reason.

Its the same concept if fans hate the idea they will bash it and non fans will not see a movie there comic book friends are bashing even if they do not fully understand the reasoning thats why its called word of mouth.....


Sadly, no...The WOM of fanboys will not change anything in the least. Look at all those die-hard LOTR fans who cursed Pete Jackson for his changes (Arwen, ect) and such...all their petitions and ...yes, dare I say? WOM did what? Crap.

I don't know why you brought up Fantastic Four...it wasnt WOM that killed that, just the fact that it was...bland. Galactus as a cloud had nothing to do with it. Come on man.

Lets face it folks - yer everyday average movie goer doesnt know the Joker's origin. Chances are they havent read Killing Joke and I doubt they're reading Confidential (I think thats it) right now.

All they probably DO know is way back in 89' Jack fell into some chemicals and BAM, he was the Joker! And he was entertaining! But before Burton? They didnt know a damn thing about how Joker became Joker.

They can walk into Batman 89' and watch Jack emerge from acid with white skin they can walk into The Dark Knight and watch a crazed man with no identity but the Joker put white face paint on and attempt to slaughter people.

Same thing, really.

As I said in another thread - Burton's Joker (ala the comics) was forced to become the Joker.

Nolan's Joker CHOOSES to be...which is really, really, scary if you think about it.
 
My main concern is pacing and mood.

BB and Prestige have a tendency to just drift by before your eyes without ever giving you a proper chance to feel drawn into the world or it's characters. There isn't enough variation between the scenes and you never really 'hooked' or immersed into the movie. There's no downtime in these movies, no quiet reflective moments which offer the audience a lull to appreciate what's happened and what's going on in the characters heads. Things just keep happening, at the same pace, with the same cuts and transitions and the same overbearing music weighing down on the atmosphere. Dialogue becomes background noise, it's not distinct or endearing and it almost becomes tedious to keep up with what the characters are saying.

It looks like TDK is shaping into a fairly crowded movie so I'm expecting this weakness in Nolan style will be present again.
Agreed.
 
My only concern is fanboys *****ing about everything like now. The movie will be fine calm the hell down
battyice.jpg


WHINEY FANBOYS!
Co-Signed.
 
Let's not forget Spider-man and his web shooters or lack there of in the first Spider-man flick. That was a huge problem but it did not ruin the movie. Green Goblins outfit didn't even ruin it and that's saying alot.
 
As I said in another thread - Burton's Joker (ala the comics) was forced to become the Joker.

Nolan's Joker CHOOSES to be...which is really, really, scary if you think about it.

If that is the case, that is scary, the choice it what makes him potentially that much worse of a threat.
 
If that is the case, that is scary, the choice it what makes him potentially that much worse of a threat.

That's why so many people are eager to see the film :D

Logically thinking, if characters choose to be killers then you know there's a screw loose somewhere.
 
Yeah I am personally dying with anticipation to see this.....11 months, damn!
 
In my head I hear so many different noises that batman is doing.
 
I don't know why you brought up Fantastic Four...it wasnt WOM that killed that, just the fact that it was...bland. Galactus as a cloud had nothing to do with it.

I think Galactus as a cloud was PART of the FF blandness. But, many good, valid points made. Movies obviously reach a much wider crowd than the average book - compare sales of even the most popular books with their film equivalents (Harry Potter the book vs. Harry Potter the movie). Therefore, while fanboy word of mouth is meaningful, the icon that is Batman vastly transcends its hard-core fanbase.

Clearly, Nolan not only respects the body of written and drawn work done over the years for Batman, but he wisely realizes that in that body of work lie gems of ideas waiting to be discovered and brought to the screen. That is precisely why he values Goyer. Goyer has more knowledge of Batman lore and history than just about anyone he could tap from WB. His writing skills are irrelevant (Nolan can tap better screenwriters), but his fanboy knowledge of Batman's history is irreplacable.

That knowledge is what has allowed Nolan to get past the overgrowth that obscured the Joker's original persona - almost obliterating it. Nolan has gone right to the heart of Joker. Past the joy buzzers and acid-squirting flowers that emasculated the character during the Comics Code era, Joker was the original terrorist. That core character was chilling, and Nolan recognized the compelling, 'primal' appeal of Joker. He knew that this was the Joker that fit into the new reality he constructed.

I do not know whether this Joker gets an origin, but I agree with the concept that without one, Joker is probably that much more frightening. Because we know Batman's origins and background, we can sympathize and root for him. We understand him and his motivations. If we do NOT know Joker's motivations and background, he is more frightening because we do not understand him.

After all, you always fear what you don't understand.
 
My main concern is pacing and mood.

BB and Prestige have a tendency to just drift by before your eyes without ever giving you a proper chance to feel drawn into the world or it's characters. There isn't enough variation between the scenes and you never really 'hooked' or immersed into the movie. There's no downtime in these movies, no quiet reflective moments which offer the audience a lull to appreciate what's happened and what's going on in the characters heads. Things just keep happening, at the same pace, with the same cuts and transitions and the same overbearing music weighing down on the atmosphere. Dialogue becomes background noise, it's not distinct or endearing and it almost becomes tedious to keep up with what the characters are saying.

It looks like TDK is shaping into a fairly crowded movie so I'm expecting this weakness in Nolan style will be present again.

Good points here, and I agree although I might have framed them differently. I think Nolan is growing as a filmmaker. The Prestige was a better-made film than Batman Begins, and I like to think the points made in Prestige about the need for 'showmanship' were not lost on him! Nolan had a tendency to let 'realism' downplay what should have been iconic/dramatic high points in Begins. Batman dropping down the Arkham staircase, unfurling his 'wings', should have been allowed to linger longer. His final confrontation with the ninjas, some of whom he trained with for years, should have been riveting. Instead, it was tossed off. Batman regaining control of his 'batline' and swinging in to the monorail car was also too fragmented to watch. We needed to be shown how that struggle progressed, but instead we were forced to fill in the movie's gaps. Even Batman's exit from the train was too rushed - there would have been good reason for that to take a few more seconds, while Batman's sails filled with wind. A great, iconic moment that again was ill-paced. Geez, these are the moments we plunk down our money for!

Contrast these rushed scenes with, for example, Wayne conversing with Alfred when they are reunited and flying home. We get a good look at every nuance of a completely static scene. But we cannot see the fights! Nolan tells us that this is because fighting is a blur. Well, he can portray fights that way sometimes, to good effect. But it's also true that Ted Williams said when he was in the groove, he could count the stitches on a spinning baseball. For a great fighter like Batman, time slows down, and THAT is what we want to see, dammit.

Yet, Nolan recognizes these dramatic high points when he sees them. He knew what Wayne's trip down the elevator, to unveil his Batman outfit, was such a moment. At such times, then, Nolan needs to learn to let his inner Wachowski Brothers come out. (And then lock them right back up in the closet, of course.)

Nolan does some things so very right. He is right to keep Batman firmly in the shadows, which no one before him really did. He knows how to make Batman melt into the shadows better than anyone. And as far as character development, he is virtually without peer. The overall tone of Begins was spot-on. The focus on police and political corruption is well-placed. It is precisely because Nolan does SO MUCH so right that we concern ourselves so passionately about the things he does wrong.
 
My main concern is pacing and mood.

BB and Prestige have a tendency to just drift by before your eyes without ever giving you a proper chance to feel drawn into the world or it's characters. There isn't enough variation between the scenes and you never really 'hooked' or immersed into the movie. There's no downtime in these movies, no quiet reflective moments which offer the audience a lull to appreciate what's happened and what's going on in the characters heads. Things just keep happening, at the same pace, with the same cuts and transitions and the same overbearing music weighing down on the atmosphere. Dialogue becomes background noise, it's not distinct or endearing and it almost becomes tedious to keep up with what the characters are saying.

It looks like TDK is shaping into a fairly crowded movie so I'm expecting this weakness in Nolan style will be present again.

Totally disagree. Nolan deals with stories that tend to have a lot of material, and he really has no need or opportunity to slow it down or provide "quiet reflective moments". Nolan's style is to provide a steady flow of narrative that does the exact opposite of your claims, it does in fact draw you in and keeps you in. There are no lulls for you to drift out of and you're enthralled and deeply pulled into a finely crafted movie world.

You obviously have never seen Insomnia. Although not a great movie story-wise, the pacing (plenty of slow moments for you) and atmosphere are top notch thanks to Nolan's skill.
 
Only thing that concerns is this added subplot about someone trying to find out Batman's identity and all these multiple Batmen subplots.
 
My only concern was w/the script, i.e. Goyer's involvement. As long as he stays 100 yards away from the script at all times, I'm happy. All indications suggest that Jonah is passionate and won't make the movie one big stupid cartoon (schumacher) filled with horrendous dialogue (begins). OH yeah and no biting of campaign consultants' noses (returns).

The permawhite bull***** is perfect for these boards, since most of us have a need to kill some time until next July...although the passionate arguments some people get onto here border on stupidity. Will the viewing public care? No. Actually, that brings up another mini concern: a decent sized segment of the population thinks Begins was a prequel. That could probly be addressed in a good publicity campaign before the movie comes out...but then again that's not a personal concern, as that won't affect the movie either way for me.

Let's see..other concerns...hmm...nope, script is in good hands, early footage doesn't look like a toy commercial..,I'd have to say I'm pleased at this point. Oh wait..actually, another mini-concern about the viewing public...is going to be their comparisons between the Jack Joker and the Heath joker. The way I figure it, most people reviewing the movie in papers, television, etc. are all at the very least 25 years old; old enough to know and likely cherish B89. If heath can sufficiently make the character his own, we'll here "it's not your daddy's joker!!!" in reviews...but if he can't really carve his own niche out of that part...it'll just confuse people who remember the hilarious, eminently quotable Jack Nicholson Joker.

Once again, that won't affect my viewing...more of a general concern for the success of the movie.
 
As I said in another thread - Burton's Joker (ala the comics) was forced to become the Joker.

Nolan's Joker CHOOSES to be...which is really, really, scary if you think about it.

You damn right it is :woot:
 
My only concern was w/the script, i.e. Goyer's involvement. As long as he stays 100 yards away from the script at all times, I'm happy. All indications suggest that Jonah is passionate and won't make the movie one big stupid cartoon (schumacher) filled with horrendous dialogue (begins). OH yeah and no biting of campaign consultants' noses (returns).

The permawhite bull***** is perfect for these boards, since most of us have a need to kill some time until next July...although the passionate arguments some people get onto here border on stupidity. Will the viewing public care? No. Actually, that brings up another mini concern: a decent sized segment of the population thinks Begins was a prequel. That could probly be addressed in a good publicity campaign before the movie comes out...but then again that's not a personal concern, as that won't affect the movie either way for me.

The words "horrendous dialogue" and the name Christopher Nolan should not appear in the same sentence, sir. That just doesn't happen...
 
As I said in another thread - Burton's Joker (ala the comics) was forced to become the Joker.

Nolan's Joker CHOOSES to be...which is really, really, scary if you think about it.


Amen to that! :woot:
 

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