The Dark Knight Concerns about TDK

[Shoemeister]

As in love with Elfman's iconic theme as I am, retaining it in Nolan's films would have been a disastrous mistake. The two series have no connection with each other whatsoever, and it should stay that way. Besides, much of the general public are already stupid enough to think that Begins is a "prequel" to the Burton/$hitmaker flicks. Let's not add anymore fuel to the fire.

 

[wick]

concerns:
batpod - aargh. joel schumacher and his demon gadgets. batman is a detective, but bat-shark-repellent and other such stupidity is an area no one should entertain. the slope is slippery. geeks might complain, 'how'd he know/do that?' but if bats has a toy for every contigency, i'll puke. tech is fine, preparation is fine, but don't let any fight end with bats pulling something out of the belt and saying (figuratively) 'aha!' such a scene means we have given up on story and character development in lieu of 'whats'-the-next-special-effect' tripe.

multiple batmans/too much story -
i think this movie may be too much for an average viewer; i.e., i think one may need some batman knowledge to really follow it first time thru. i happen to like that idea, and it may either require us to explain stuff to our less informed friends (like i did once a friend saw Iron Man trailer and said he thought it looked cool but had no idea about the comic) or for the less geeky to look for outside assistance and see the movie again. why? i expect a quick pace, names thrown around with enuff exposition and context that the story is understandable, but many things that we know-it-alls may have a deeper appreciation for. it will be as if a sort fan stumbled across 'the long halloween.'
i fear the multiple batman story most of all. sounds like a bad montage in the middle of the film. don't make me mad nolan (shakes fist in anger at empty air).

 

[Sccmj23]

As in love with Elfman's iconic theme as I am, retaining it in Nolan's films would have been a disastrous mistake. The two series have no connection with each other whatsoever, and it should stay that way. Besides, much of the general public are already stupid enough to think that Begins is a "prequel" to the Burton/$hitmaker flicks. Let's not add anymore fuel to the fire.

Precisely...

I remember some people at work telling me "yeah batman begins was good but it doesnt make any sense..... I thought The Joker killed Batman's parents?"

 

[combusticator]

Precisely...

I remember some people at work telling me "yeah batman begins was good but it doesnt make any sense..... I thought The Joker killed Batman's parents?"

Man lol that's sad

 

[CaptainClown]

Trust me, soo many people didn't know begins was a new series. This was way back when it was unheard of to restart a series.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Precisely...

I remember some people at work telling me "yeah batman begins was good but it doesnt make any sense..... I thought The Joker killed Batman's parents?"

And things like that are a good example of why a reboot was needed. I'll probably sound like a Nolan fanboy, but I don't see how the other movies can really even be considered Batman movies. It was more like 1. The Joker movie, featuring Batman. 2. Catwoman meets the Penguin (with a cameo by Batman) 3 & 4 Adam West Batman Returns! (Now with homoerotic costumes and neon lights).

 

[Shoemeister]

And things like that are a good example of why a reboot was needed. I'll probably sound like a Nolan fanboy, but I don't see how the other movies can really even be considered Batman movies. It was more like 1. The Joker movie, featuring Batman. 2. Catwoman meets the Penguin (with a cameo by Batman) 3 & 4 Adam West Batman Returns! (Now with homoerotic costumes and neon lights).

lol

 

[combusticator]

And things like that are a good example of why a reboot was needed. I'll probably sound like a Nolan fanboy, but I don't see how the other movies can really even be considered Batman movies. It was more like 1. The Joker movie, featuring Batman. 2. Catwoman meets the Penguin (with a cameo by Batman) 3 & 4 Adam West Batman Returns! (Now with homoerotic costumes and neon lights).

nothing wrong with being a Nolan fanboy imo, when he's a kick@$$ director

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

As in love with Elfman's iconic theme as I am, retaining it in Nolan's films would have been a disastrous mistake. The two series have no connection with each other whatsoever, and it should stay that way. Besides, much of the general public are already stupid enough to think that Begins is a "prequel" to the Burton/$hitmaker flicks. Let's not add anymore fuel to the fire.

I disagree. Elfaman IS Batman, like Williams IS Superman.
You say BB had no connection to B89? How about the rubber suit Nolan ripped off from Burton?

Anyway, i digress, the Elfman theme SHOULD now be used as Batman has earnt his wings so to speak.

The Elfman theme transcends Burton's movies, it should encompass ALL Batman movies at some point in my opinion.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Time.

Honestly, this film seems packed as **** to me.

Yeah, it harmed BR and BF. It helped ruin B&R and Spiderrman3.

Why do people have to fill these movies with so many charactrers and sub-plots?

I had serious doubs over BB for the same reason, but Nolan pulled it off in 2 hours 15.

But this movie is even MORE packed!
How on earth can this work?

 

[Gianakin_]

I disagree. Elfaman IS Batman, like Williams IS Superman.
You say BB had no connection to B89? How about the rubber suit Nolan ripped off from Burton?

Anyway, i digress, the Elfman theme SHOULD now be used as Batman has earnt his wings so to speak.

The Elfman theme transcends Burton's movies, it should encompass ALL Batman movies at some point in my opinion.

Wait a minute.
First of all, "ripping off" is a harsh word which is in 90% probability not true.
And no, apart from some tributes Nolan made to Burton (and Schumacher I believe), the suit thing was not a ripoff.
Second, the Elfman theme (beautiful, iconic etc indeed) represents and enhances a certain atmosphere perfectly. That atmosphere is the one that Burton has created. The Nolan atmosphere is completely different and if you've heard Elfman music over BB and thought it fitted, than I can't say any more on the subject. But, for me, it is totally inappropriate for this franchise.
3rd, Williams is still Superman just because of the course Singer decided to go. Even in the beginning, Ottman announced he wouldn't be keeping the theme at all. Other themes have been done and, while not as iconic as Williams, doesnt mean they aren't valid (Lois and Clark) or noteworthy enough (Superman TAS). Personally, I'd have absolutely no problem with a new theme for Superman Returns.
People need to let go of the past and be brave and open-minded enough for something new.

 

[Shoemeister]

I disagree. Elfaman IS Batman, like Williams IS Superman.
You say BB had no connection to B89? How about the rubber suit Nolan ripped off from Burton?

Anyway, i digress, the Elfman theme SHOULD now be used as Batman has earnt his wings so to speak.

The Elfman theme transcends Burton's movies, it should encompass ALL Batman movies at some point in my opinion.

Ugh.

Williams is still Superman just because of the course Singer decided to go.

Exactly. While not "directly" a sequel, Singer chose to make a Returns a loosely-related film that existed in the same world of the the first two films. Hence, he kept the theme (as well as opening credits, ongoing Luthor continuity, etc.) It wasn't a complete reboot; Begins was. Plain and simple.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Wait a minute.
First of all, "ripping off" is a harsh word which is in 90% probability not true.
And no, apart from some tributes Nolan made to Burton (and Schumacher I believe), the suit thing was not a ripoff.
Second, the Elfman theme (beautiful, iconic etc indeed) represents and enhances a certain atmosphere perfectly. That atmosphere is the one that Burton has created. The Nolan atmosphere is completely different and if you've heard Elfman music over BB and thought it fitted, than I can't say any more on the subject. But, for me, it is totally inappropriate for this franchise.
3rd, Williams is still Superman just because of the course Singer decided to go. Even in the beginning, Ottman announced he wouldn't be keeping the theme at all. Other themes have been done and, while not as iconic as Williams, doesnt mean they aren't valid (Lois and Clark) or noteworthy enough (Superman TAS). Personally, I'd have absolutely no problem with a new theme for Superman Returns.
People need to let go of the past and be brave and open-minded enough for something new.

Well why couldn't Nolan create his OWN vision for Batman and his suit?
As for the music, i believe Elfman's theme can work with Nolans movie style. I don't see why it couldn't occur at least ONCE in the movie.

If for some reason it can't, why not get Elfman back to compose an entirely NEW score for TDK?

For me, the music in BB was a week link. It didn't do the movie justice. I'm willing to give the composers one more chance though. But IF they fail again, that'll be two thirds of Nolan's trilogy they would have negatively affected.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Exactly. While not "directly" a sequel, Singer chose to make a Returns a loosely-related film that existed in the same world of the the first two films. Hence, he kept the theme (as well as opening credits, ongoing Luthor continuity, etc.) It wasn't a complete reboot; Begins was. Plain and simple.

It's make me glad that some posters are thinking this stuff through rationally.

It's even more ironic that some posters are claiming people already have difficulty separating the continuity and then they would encourage us to re-use the old Elfman theme?? What, so we can confuse people further???

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

It's make me glad that some posters are thinking this stuff through rationally.

It's even more ironic that some posters are claiming people already have difficulty separating the continuity and then they would encourage us to re-use the old Elfman theme?? What, so we can confuse people further???

Funk the numbskulls. You gotta do whats best for the movie.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Funk the numbskulls. You gotta do whats best for the movie.

That theme clearly is NOT what's best for the reasons that have already been stated.

Why are you so interested in doing the same old stuff over and over???

 

[Gianakin_]

Funk the numbskulls. You gotta do whats best for the movie.

Many people think that the above suggestion by Troma is what's best for the movie, myself included.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Many people think that the above suggestion by Troma is what's best for the movie, myself included.

Ok, but thats why we're here to dabate isn't it? After all, at the end of the day, all we have is our Balls and our opinions.t:

BTW, have you heard the latest the latest?

In the latest edition of Nuts magazine ( UK ) there is an interview with Christian Bale, in which he states he`s in the running to play Solid Snake in the 2009 movie Metal Gear Solid.

 

[Gianakin_]

Well why couldn't Nolan create his OWN vision for Batman and his suit?
As for the music, i believe Elfman's theme can work with Nolans movie style. I don't see why it couldn't occur at least ONCE in the movie.

If for some reason it can't, why not get Elfman back to compose an entirely NEW score for TDK?

For me, the music in BB was a week link. It didn't do the movie justice. I'm willing to give the composers one more chance though. But IF they fail again, that'll be two thirds of Nolan's trilogy they would have negatively affected.

Because he went for something that works for the cinematic version of Batman. That's not ripping off. I won't go any further because this debate has no merit.
Plus, even if you get Elfman, I guarantee you he'd compose something else. And the very fact you suggest Elfman to write a NEW score is in line with what I said. Just the composer differs. It's only a matter of who you like more. But the fresh music argument is what you concluded to, as well.

PS: Every footage of BB I've seen with Elfman's music sounds ridiculous. I particularly remember seeing the rooftop scene between Bats and Gordon and it was playing the B89 finale music. It was like the circus was in the street below them. And you know why? Not bacause Elfman's music sucks, but because the atmosphere established in BB couldn't be more opposite than the music Elfman wrote for the atmosphere in the Burton films.

 

[Gianakin_]

Ok, but thats why we're here to dabate isn't it? After all, at the end of the day, all we have is our Balls and our opinions.t:

BTW, have you heard the latest the latest?

In the latest edition of Nuts magazine ( UK ) there is an interview with Christian Bale, in which he states he`s in the running to play Solid Snake in the 2009 movie Metal Gear Solid.

He'd be a perfect Snake, good for him. I hope he doesn't get too much into adaptations, though.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Ok, but thats why we're here to dabate isn't it? After all, at the end of the day, all we have is our Balls and our opinions.t:

BTW, have you heard the latest the latest?

In the latest edition of Nuts magazine ( UK ) there is an interview with Christian Bale, in which he states he`s in the running to play Solid Snake in the 2009 movie Metal Gear Solid.

Totally off topic, but that really is amazing information. I think he could pull off Solid Snake.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Because he went for something that works for the cinematic version of Batman. That's not ripping off. I won't go any further because this debate has no merit.
Plus, even if you get Elfman, I guarantee you he'd compose something else. And the very fact you suggest Elfman to write a NEW score is in line with what I said. Just the composer differs. It's only a matter of who you like more. But the fresh music argument is what you concluded to, as well.

PS: Every footage of BB I've seen with Elfman's music sounds ridiculous. I particularly remember seeing the rooftop scene between Bats and Gordon and it was playing the B89 finale music. It was like the circus was in the street below them. And you know why? Not bacause Elfman's music sucks, but because the atmosphere established in BB couldn't be more opposite than the music Elfman wrote for the atmosphere in the Burton films.

Well i thought it worked well. I saw BB footage with Elfman music and i thought it rocked.

How can you say Nolan didn't rip off Burton with the suit though?
It a new trilogy, it should have had a new suit made from a different fabric. He's repeating histories mistakes by now moving forward.

Most people agree the rubber thing is getting worse and isn't really working anymore. But instead of getting is OWN vision for the suit, he made one (IN TDK) look even worse than BB!

 

[TromaFreak64]

PS: Every footage of BB I've seen with Elfman's music sounds ridiculous. I particularly remember seeing the rooftop scene between Bats and Gordon and it was playing the B89 finale music. It was like the circus was in the street below them. And you know why? Not bacause Elfman's music sucks, but because the atmosphere established in BB couldn't be more opposite than the music Elfman wrote for the atmosphere in the Burton films.

This pretty much sums it up as best as possible.

The music was clearly written for a different film. If Elfman was asked to score Batman Begins, even he himself, would have made some relevant to the film. I mean when he scores any picture, he is going to make music that goes with the picture.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Totally off topic, but that really is amazing information. I think he could pull off Solid Snake.

Never liked the games, but i think he'd be good.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

This pretty much sums it up as best as possible.

The music was clearly written for a different film. If Elfman was asked to score Batman Begins, even he himself, would have made some relevant to the film. I mean when he scores any picture, he is going to make music that goes with the picture.

True, but the Theme could be used SOMEWWHERE in the movie. One thing i do know, Elfmanis still the best man for the job.