The Dark Knight Concerns about TDK

[TromaFreak64]

Well i thought it worked well. I saw BB footage with Elfman music and i thought it rocked.

How can you say Nolan didn't rip off Burton with the suit though?
It a new trilogy, it should have had a new suit made from a different fabric. He's repeating histories mistakes by now moving forward.

Most people agree the rubber thing is getting worse and isn't really working anymore. But instead of getting is OWN vision for the suit, he made one (IN TDK) look even worse than BB!

If you wan to talk about the suit I suggest you take it to the suit thread, otherwise you are not gonna get responses. I mean I know this is the concerns thread, but people will better debate that issue there - where there clearly are people who disagree with you, and are prepared to debate the issue.

 

[TromaFreak64]

True, but the Theme could be used SOMEWWHERE in the movie. One thing i do know, Elfmanis still the best man for the job.

Elfman is amazing.

 

[Kabuki_Jo]

For me, the music in BB was a week link. It didn't do the movie justice. I'm willing to give the composers one more chance though. But IF they fail again, that'll be two thirds of Nolan's trilogy they would have negatively affected.

I agree. I didn't like the music in Batman Begins at all. It was just plain awful.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I agree. I didn't like the music in Batman Begins at all. It was just plain awful.

It didn't do anything for me. It was balnd and ininspiring.

 

[TromaFreak64]

It didn't do anything for me. It was balnd and ininspiring.

I'm well aware of your opinion on this subject, as it's come up before, but the majority of people, the general public, don't seem to share it. At least not based on sales of the score to Begins - which is really weird since that score was one of the worst put together releases ever... but what scores aren't chopped up like that these days?

 

[Gianakin_]

True, but the Theme could be used SOMEWWHERE in the movie. One thing i do know, Elfmanis still the best man for the job.

I love Elfman too, but that's beside the point. Anyway, you liked the Elfman music over BB footage, power to you, I hate it. I personally don't consider the "old theme" argument strong enough to become a concern for the sequel, but that's me.

 

[Gianakin_]

How can you say Nolan didn't rip off Burton with the suit though?
It a new trilogy, it should have had a new suit made from a different fabric. He's repeating histories mistakes by now moving forward.

Most people agree the rubber thing is getting worse and isn't really working anymore. But instead of getting is OWN vision for the suit, he made one (IN TDK) look even worse than BB!

Continuing a visual style and ripping off is an entirely different thing. Considering that Nolan wants to differentiate the present incarnation of Batman from the past one, thinking to rip off the suit of the very past franchise, is just plain backtracking and idiotic. I highly doubt Nolan thought like that.

I don't know who "most people" are, I'm fine with the suit and nobody I know and speak with in general forums (not as specific as this) ever bring up the suit as a problem. I, of course, will go ahead and assume that you will answer to that "Well, most people I know don't like the rubber suit look anymore". But the ones I'm talking about don't even care, it's the natural cinematic look of Batman for them (and I'm willing to bet that Nolan thought so too when he chose to still go with rubber suit). And, naturally, the same thing applies for the general public.

 

[Shoemeister]

If for some reason it can't, why not get Elfman back to compose an entirely NEW score for TDK?

First of all, this completely defeats the purpose of your original argument stating that the Elfman theme should continue to be used in Nolan's series.

Second, why the hell would he WANT to return? What would the purpose be of retreading old ground? Elfman already gave us a classic theme and score (remember, I said I still love and cherish his work). He would hardly want to be bothered with trying to outdo himself because there is simply NO NEED TO. He has nothing left to prove for Batman. It was what it was and it is what it is. This is a new franchise now.

If you don't favor the Zimmer/Howard score, that's fine. It's certainly far from iconic nor is it even all that memorable, but it fits the mood of the film. It served it's purpose wonderfully. Nolan's Batman isn't about the grandiose bombast that Burton's was (granted, this become much more apparent in Returns). His Batman is brooding, mysterious, visceral and internal. The score was understated, as though it were lurking in the shadows behind you: just like the character himself.

Plus, we all know that Batman has "earned" his theme and that we'll get to hear it in TDK. That's another reason why I like the Zimmer/Howard score: Bruce hadn't yet figured out who Batman was until the end of the film, and really, neither had we. Now with TDK, we know what to expect.

Point is, the Elfman theme does not belong in the Nolan films. It's not what's "best for the movie". Again, plain and simple.

 

[Rorschach II]

Maybe not, but that doesn't change the fact that the Zimmer score was horse****.

 

[KILLING JOKER]

Maybe not, but that doesn't change the fact that the Zimmer score was horse****.

Wow, how can you say that? The music in "Begins" was the heartbeat of the film. It pulsated and brought rich emotion into the film. I'd go as far as saying the score was one of the films best assets.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Rorschach and Matt are in a sort minority in their opinion, but at least they express it well... sometimes. But I do, wonder, but it apparently just didn't do it for them.

 

[roach]

Wow, how can you say that? The music in "Begins" was the heartbeat of the film. It pulsated and brought rich emotion into the film. I'd go as far as saying the score was one of the films best assets.

to you maybe but to me I have a hard time remembering any of the music from BB

 

[CaptainClown]

BB didn't have that amazing of a soundtrack

 

[Luchastyle]

bb had a soundtrack that worked for the movie. but the b89 soundtrack is memorable. well the main theme was memorable. and i find it rare that a movie has a memorable theme. but it did. so that's an achievement to me. but i don't mind the zimmer score.

and on the subject of the batsuit. i don't think nolan ripped off the burton suit. the begins suit doesn't even look like rubber to me. it looks more like, i don't know, some type of armor. the similarities never crossed my mind, other than it being black. and while a clothe suit is cool for the comics and fan films. i don't know if it would work in a big budget movie.

 

[mrbrownie]

I disagree. Elfaman IS Batman, like Williams IS Superman.
You say BB had no connection to B89? How about the rubber suit Nolan ripped off from Burton?

Anyway, i digress, the Elfman theme SHOULD now be used as Batman has earnt his wings so to speak.

The Elfman theme transcends Burton's movies, it should encompass ALL Batman movies at some point in my opinion.

Could you... Could you repeat that?

 

[roach]

bb had a soundtrack that worked for the movie. but the b89 soundtrack is memorable. well the main theme was memorable. and i find it rare that a movie has a memorable theme. but it did. so that's an achievement to me. but i don't mind the zimmer score.

and on the subject of the batsuit. i don't think nolan ripped off the burton suit. the begins suit doesn't even look like rubber to me. it looks more like, i don't know, some type of armor. the similarities never crossed my mind, other than it being black. and while a clothe suit is cool for the comics and fan films. i don't know if it would work in a big budget movie.

for me it looked like armor when it was in the drawer...the batsuit look very rubberish to me

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

for me it looked like armor when it was in the drawer...the batsuit look very rubberish to me

hey, remember the very particular scene in Begins where Bruce is in his workshop, wearing a breath mask, spraying his armor with a black latex material? it was a good one.

 

[Gianakin_]

I agree that the Elfman music was more meomrable, but that doesn't make BB's music horse s**t.

 

[roach]

I agree that the Elfman music was more meomrable, but that doesn't make BB's music horse s**t.

what makes it horse **** is that it wasnt memorable.

 

[Gianakin_]

I disagree with that kind of logic "What's not great is s**t".
I loved the BB music, but the only gripe was the non-memorable theme. Nothing more. As a whole and as serving the movie (which is what a soundtrack is supposed to do IMO), it was beautiful.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Continuing a visual style and ripping off is an entirely different thing. Considering that Nolan wants to differentiate the present incarnation of Batman from the past one, thinking to rip off the suit of the very past franchise, is just plain backtracking and idiotic. I highly doubt Nolan thought like that.

I don't know who "most people" are, I'm fine with the suit and nobody I know and speak with in general forums (not as specific as this) ever bring up the suit as a problem. I, of course, will go ahead and assume that you will answer to that "Well, most people I know don't like the rubber suit look anymore". But the ones I'm talking about don't even care, it's the natural cinematic look of Batman for them (and I'm willing to bet that Nolan thought so too when he chose to still go with rubber suit). And, naturally, the same thing applies for the general public.

Why would Nolan want to continue Burtons work? Nolan is making his OWN trilogy, it should have NOTHING to do with Burton's work, so why Use Burton's Suit designs? Why not make something unique and fresh?
I don't quite understand Nolan's reasons myself, I mean, its not like the rubber concept actually works is it? Its hot, stiff, and its looking more ridiculous with each passing film. It might of worked in the 80's and early 90's, but those days are gone.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I agree that the Elfman music was more meomrable, but that doesn't make BB's music horse s**t.

I'm not saying its Horse ****, just that it was bland, and unremarkable.

I think the composers said somthing about one would start to write a theme and the other would finish it off. Obviously that doesn't work. Thats probably why its never been done before or since, oh except in TDK.

 

[Gianakin_]

I'm not saying its Horse ****, just that it was bland, and unremarkable.

I think the composers said somthing about one would start to write a theme and the other would finish it off. Obviously that doesn't work. Thats probably why its never been done before or since, oh except in TDK.

I was talking to Roach.
It has been done before, collaborations between composers in one movie is not a first. Pirates of the Caribbean had practically 15 composers, among them Zimmer and Badelt (and previously Silvestri).

 

[Gianakin_]

Why would Nolan want to continue Burtons work? Nolan is making his OWN trilogy, it should have NOTHING to do with Burton's work, so why Use Burton's Suit designs? Why not make something unique and fresh?
I don't quite understand Nolan's reasons myself, I mean, its not like the rubber concept actually works is it? Its hot, stiff, and its looking more ridiculous with each passing film. It might of worked in the 80's and early 90's, but those days are gone.

Look, I can't answer why for sure, but I can speculate.
The fact that he continues to use that style means that it works for him. It works for me and it works for many people as well. You're one of the few I've met to say the rubber suit is more ridiculous each film that passes. It is an argument that has come out of the blue, I'm willing to bet as a reaction of some people who expected that in TDK we'd get a more "comic-accurate" suit (I could be wrong in this one, though). You're entitled to your opinion (which is really valid and I can see why) but, as far as I know, you're the minority. Considering that AND the fact that the rubber suit "did it" for Nolan, he chose to keep that style.
What he did, under no circumstances can it be called "ripping off", though. I can see now that you love Burton and you like his take on Batman more than Nolan's (and that's more than fine, Burton is a great artist), but calling one of the 2 a ripoff is a bit too much I think.

 

[DeaDheaD]

Nolan is totally ripping off Burton's original Idea for superhero named Batman to dress in a black suit and fight crime.