Comics Contributions to the Spider-Man Mythos..

[DACrowe]

No, no, no. I'm saying that it worked for the story. There was no ****ting on Ock. I'm saying for the story he was not himself and mind dcontrolled. Surely after all the times we've seen that done to other characters we wouldn't mind just one episode with Ock under control. It didn't disrespect his character because we know he'll break out of it eventually and I just don't think he was that disrespected as the story did not degrade his character. He'll just break out and kill everybody later, but I didn't feel it was that offensive as they did not say Ock was so sloppy on his own but he was brainwashed in this story though.

 

[The Joker]

No, no, no. I'm saying that it worked for the story. There was no ****ting on Ock. I'm saying for the story he was not himself and mind dcontrolled.

But it was****ting on Ock, because he is an A-class villain with one of the sharpest and most powerful minds in Spidey's rogues gallery, look how he can call his tentacles to him from hundreds of miles away.

And here he was being degraded into some puppet assassin for Osborn.

"Must.......kill.........Norman Osborn" Drool coming from his mouth and all

Surely after all the times we've seen that done to other characters we wouldn't mind just one episode with Ock under control.

What other characters?? Were any of them as powerfully minded and intelligent as Ock??

It didn't disrespect his character because we know he'll break out of it eventually and I just don't think he was that disrespected as the story did not degrade his character.

I think it disrespected his character. Doctor Octopus, the master of manipulation, with a mind powerful enough to control his tentacles from hundreds of miles away, being manipulated himself into a drooling zombie.

He'll just break out and kill everybody later, but I didn't feel it was that offensive as they did not say Ock was so sloppy on his own but he was brainwashed in this story though.

I know it was only temporary, but that doesn't make it any less crappy. Much like the Iron Spidey costume. We know that's temporary, but its still a terrible costume.

 

[stillanerd]

Really? I thought that was a particularly brilliant way of dealing with The Absorbing Man.

Different strokes, i guess.

Well, it was more of a "It's so bad, it's funny" reaction with me (although not as humorous as when Absorbing Man accidently touched some dirt and was blown away to smitherins in Guardians of the Galaxy). I mean, Grant Morrison has come with with really wacky situations and yet they come across as strangely logical. Reggie Hudlin comes up with wacky situations like what happened to Absorning Man--and especially the whole Aunt May and Mary Jane in Iron Man armor fighting Doombots--and I can't help think "That's just lame." But yeah, that's just me.

 

[stillanerd]

I was referring to the kid venom actually.
I could also have mentioned osborn in the first issue btw.
And giving an example that direct counter acts your point hardly proves it.

Even worse. Beating a pushover is your idea of a victory? I'll bet if Spidey tried really hard, he could kick the walker from under a little old lady, too. And yeah, if your point does nothing to reinforce your argument, but substantiates mine by proving that you can't name a decisive victory of Spidey's during that run, then you prove my point. Not that hard a concept to grasp.

Actually, both of you are wrong in that "Kid Venom" (or Venom II or D'Angelo or whatever the hell the name of that guy was that bought the symbiote) actually lost because the symbiote figured out that it's new host was a loser and left his body in mid-jump over two buildings, thus making him do a swan dive ten or fifteen stories into concrete and asphalt, so technically Spidey didn't actually beat Venom II either--the symbiote did. The only decisive victory Spidey actually had in that story, now that I think about it, was when he defeated the Green Goblin at the very beginning of the story. Every other battle he was in he either lost, ran away from as he stalled his adversary, or was ended by either a truce or Deus ex Machina.

 

[Dragon]

Actually, both of you are wrong in that "Kid Venom" (or Venom II or D'Angelo or whatever the hell the name of that guy was that bought the symbiote) actually lost because the symbiote figured out that it's new host was a loser and left his body in mid-jump over two buildings, thus making him do a swan dive ten or fifteen stories into concrete and asphalt, so technically Spidey didn't actually beat Venom II either--the symbiote did. The only decisive victory Spidey actually had in that story, now that I think about it, was when he defeated the Green Goblin at the very beginning of the story. Every other battle he was in he either lost, ran away from as he stalled his adversary, or was ended by either a truce or Deus ex Machina.

I was aware of the symbiote ditching the guy. Although Spidey was beating up on him, due to his lack of experience and aggressiveness.

Even the Goblin win gets an asterisk IMO, since the story depended on the Goblin being in prison.

It just truly irks me that these writers can only seem to write Spidey as a punk in order to move the stories along. That's the point of this thread. There was point at which the spider signal made villains scared. And the very reason the Goblin went after Spidey in the beginning of his career is because Spidey was the man to beat. Now he's just the man to be beaten.

 

[Dragon]

No, no, no. I'm saying that it worked for the story. There was no ****ting on Ock. I'm saying for the story he was not himself and mind dcontrolled. Surely after all the times we've seen that done to other characters we wouldn't mind just one episode with Ock under control. It didn't disrespect his character because we know he'll break out of it eventually and I just don't think he was that disrespected as the story did not degrade his character. He'll just break out and kill everybody later, but I didn't feel it was that offensive as they did not say Ock was so sloppy on his own but he was brainwashed in this story though.

Tell me- how did it serve that story to make Ock a tool? This too is the point I'm making with this thread. All of these characters should be written in top form- at their best- and challenged from there. Personally I wouldn't want to see a Goblin vs. Ock battle. But if you had to have one, then show them at their best- exchanges quips- comparing notes as to who has done the most damage to Spider-Man. The Goblin bragging about Gwen and so forth, while Ock would counter that those were easy targets and beneath him.

And Peter was written out of character. He never used his brain until the very end. He would certainly never allow himself to be a tool for the Goblin. He would err on the side of caution. He knows at this point Osborn would never keep his word. He's not noble. He's a maniac. He'd come up with a plan b to set the Goblin up. Peter is supposed to be SMART.

 

[The Joker]

Personally I wouldn't want to see a Goblin vs. Ock battle.

Well thats a first. Most Spidey fans would love to see Spidey's two greatest foes go head to head properly at least once.

May I ask why you wouldn't like to see that??

 

[Dragon]

Well thats a first. Most Spidey fans would love to see Spidey's two greatest foes go head to head properly at least once.

May I ask why you wouldn't like to see that??

Because you can't have a winner. Thus lame cop-outs have to be utilized as with "The Last Stand".

It would take a real talent to make both shine, plus Spidey who of course would be caught in the middle. Of course, if it ended it Osborn's actual demise, then it might work.