Cops break into house, kill dog and harass old lady.

[Mandalore464]

No one here is saying that police brutality doesn't exist. We are all talking about this very specific case, in which information is sorely lacking to assert whether the cops were right or wrong to use the methods they used.

But it pains me to see that so many people here can't put things into perspective.

A number of people seem to think the police methods are brutal. Do you know why they are? To protect lives. Not just theirs, yours too. If when they enter your house, they do it brutally fast, making a **** load of noise in the process, scaring the **** out of you, it's for a very simple reason : Because they don't want to have to shoot you and kill you.

They're acting that way to paralyze any opposition with fear. "Shock and awe". If you go into shock, you don't have the time to grab your SMG, and if you're innocent and unarmed, you don't have the time to do some stupid move that could be interpreted as a threat and met with deadly force.

These methods are necessary.

Another number of people claim that those "militarized" methods shouldn't be used by the police. There's a reason they are : They are the methods that work. They've been tested and approved during real combat situations, and they are efficient in safeguarding as many lives as possible.

There's another reason as well : the forces they have to face on a daily basis have become more militarized as well. They are well armed, and usually have enough training to use these weapons. And more often than not, they don't really give a **** about killing cops, because it proves how tough they are.

When you're facing guerilla tactics, you'd better have something more efficient than courtesy and a whistle in your pocket.

It's also amazing that a lot of you forget that the cops out there in the field are actually merely applying guidelines and following rules. Taking it out on them out of sheer frustration does about as much good as when you take it out on the concession clerk at the popcorn stand because he wouldn't let you have that extra scoop of butter for free. It's useless. The guy is already underpaid to do one of the ****tiest jobs in the world, and he's just following his company guidelines in order to keep it.

Think about it. Try to put yourselves in these cops' shoes for a second.

You just got your orders to get inside this pot dealer's house and arrest him. Chances are you're scared. Adrenaline is pumping so hard you feel like your heart's gonna explode at any moment. You don't want your buddies' brains to come crashing down your goggles during the operation.

Yes, you know there's an older lady inside the house. If she's in there, there's a fair chance she knows her grandson has been growing marijuana inside her house. You haven't seen the guy in the last few hours, but he doesn't get out much anyway. Chances are he's in there. He could be armed and ready to shoot at a moment's notice. You know there's a dog.

What are you going to do when you get inside and the dog comes at you? He definitely will because when dogs are scared, they attack. Are you going to pat the dog and throw him a bone? Or lead his ash so he's out of the way and allows you to do your job while ensuring that your mates, the guys you work with and have to protect are safe?

Like I already said, it's very easy to say after the fact that "things could have been done differently", that the grandmother was alone, unarmed, and that the dog was the sweetest plush toy in the world.

The reality of the assault however, is a lot different. The day you actually perform one and get to understand just what it feels like to enter some guy's house thinking it could be your last breath, that's when you get the right to criticize how these guys work.

 

[Mike_D202]

More and more, it seems to me that people seem to hate cops because they don’t understand police work and culture, period. Anytime something like this is reported, a lot of silly statements and assumptions and misconceptions pop up.

 

[Thundercrack85]

No one here is saying that police brutality doesn't exist. We are all talking about this very specific case, in which information is sorely lacking to assert whether the cops were right or wrong to use the methods they used.

But it pains me to see that so many people here can't put things into perspective.

A number of people seem to think the police methods are brutal. Do you know why they are? To protect lives. Not just theirs, yours too. If when they enter your house, they do it brutally fast, making a **** load of noise in the process, scaring the **** out of you, it's for a very simple reason : Because they don't want to have to shoot you and kill you.

They're acting that way to paralyze any opposition with fear. "Shock and awe". If you go into shock, you don't have the time to grab your SMG, and if you're innocent and unarmed, you don't have the time to do some stupid move that could be interpreted as a threat and met with deadly force.

These methods are necessary.

Another number of people claim that those "militarized" methods shouldn't be used by the police. There's a reason they are : They are the methods that work. They've been tested and approved during real combat situations, and they are efficient in safeguarding as many lives as possible.

There's another reason as well : the forces they have to face on a daily basis have become more militarized as well. They are well armed, and usually have enough training to use these weapons. And more often than not, they don't really give a **** about killing cops, because it proves how tough they are.

When you're facing guerilla tactics, you'd better have something more efficient than courtesy and a whistle in your pocket.

It's also amazing that a lot of you forget that the cops out there in the field are actually merely applying guidelines and following rules. Taking it out on them out of sheer frustration does about as much good as when you take it out on the concession clerk at the popcorn stand because he wouldn't let you have that extra scoop of butter for free. It's useless. The guy is already underpaid to do one of the ****tiest jobs in the world, and he's just following his company guidelines in order to keep it.

Think about it. Try to put yourselves in these cops' shoes for a second.

You just got your orders to get inside this pot dealer's house and arrest him. Chances are you're scared. Adrenaline is pumping so hard you feel like your heart's gonna explode at any moment. You don't want your buddies' brains to come crashing down your goggles during the operation.

Yes, you know there's an older lady inside the house. If she's in there, there's a fair chance she knows her grandson has been growing marijuana inside her house. You haven't seen the guy in the last few hours, but he doesn't get out much anyway. Chances are he's in there. He could be armed and ready to shoot at a moment's notice. You know there's a dog.

What are you going to do when you get inside and the dog comes at you? He definitely will because when dogs are scared, they attack. Are you going to pat the dog and throw him a bone? Or lead his ash so he's out of the way and allows you to do your job while ensuring that your mates, the guys you work with and have to protect are safe?

Like I already said, it's very easy to say after the fact that "things could have been done differently", that the grandmother was alone, unarmed, and that the dog was the sweetest plush toy in the world.

The reality of the assault however, is a lot different. The day you actually perform one and get to understand just what it feels like to enter some guy's house thinking it could be your last breath, that's when you get the right to criticize how these guys work.

I actually question how effective these tactics are. Granted, I'm more so addressing your argument for militarization here, than this specific incident. If they had simply knocked on the door, and presented the search warrant, this wouldn't have been a story on the internet.

Instead we have numerous incidents of militarized police breaking down doors, shooting animals, and sometimes people for possessing a mild psychotropic drug. Or they just get the wrong house (sorry about killing fido and shooting up the living room, folks...)

One case they sent a SWAT team to arrest an guy for betting on a sports game, and they shot him dead in his doorway when he opened the door (he was unarmed). A misfire, apparently. Of course, no one was disciplined.

But hey, it's a tough job.

Going by this overly long post, I'm assuming you are, or were a police officer?

 

[Mandalore464]

Ther problem is that you're using a few examples of terrible incompetence on the part of the individuals performing an action as an argument against this action taking place at all.

I would compare that to saying "elections shouldn't exist because there's a possibility for less-scrupulous counters to turn in fake results."

When cops make mistakes such as those you mentioned, and they do happen, then the cops responsible for them should be punished accordingly.

But the methods are not to be questioned. they are the safest and most efficient methods we have come up with so far. That doesn't mean we'll never find something more efficient of course.

The argument that the cops should have knocked has already come up dozens of times in this thread and it is getting mildly annoying to repeat it : The officers probably had a no-knock warrant. Which, again, is not given to them so they can storm inside your house and destroy your life, but to prevent any armed individual inside to grab a gun and use it. Again, it's all to save lives.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What I was trying to illustrate is that militarization leads to such things. You're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. These examples I cite are not rare. Are they the norm? Thankfully no. But these are not rare, isolated incidents. They have entire websites dedicated to daily accounts of police brutality.

Not only that, there is a real lack of oversight. It's almost comical at times. There are thousands of incidents of police brutality. Most of the ones that are reported, go entirely unpunished, even in the most egregious instances. Many of them are the byproduct of the militarization you apparently support.

No-knock warrants were controversial from the start, and have been used increasingly often. Collateral damage (including bystanders being wounded and killed) has skyrocketed since. Of course, we'll never know the real extent.

Police also seem to be breaking into the wrong damn house with surprising frequency. Not really sure what that's about.

 

[Mandalore464]

What I was trying to illustrate is that militarization leads to such things.

It is true. And what I'm trying to get at is that there is no other valid option.

There is a reason we evolved into those techniques and tactics. The old ones were becoming too dangerous, and were resulting in many more lethal incidents.

Criminals are militarized. You're not gonna make the situation any better by arming cops with slingshots or making them enter houses after they've announced themselves. You would end up with more shootings, and therefore more victims.

You're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. These examples I cite are not rare. Are they the norm? Thankfully no. But these are not rare, isolated incidents. They have entire websites dedicated to daily accounts of police brutality.

Not only that, there is a real lack of oversight. It's almost comical at times. There are thousands of incidents of police brutality. Most of the ones that are reported, go entirely unpunished, even in the most egregious instances. Many of them are the byproduct of the militarization you apparently support.

No-knock warrants were controversial from the start, and have been used increasingly often. Collateral damage (including bystanders being wounded and killed) has skyrocketed since. Of course, we'll never know the real extent.

Police also seem to be breaking into the wrong damn house with surprising frequency. Not really sure what that's about.

You're lacking proper perspective on the matter.

How many thousands of police operations everyday in the world? How many of those go wrong?

How many thousands of houses entered and searched everyday? How many of them are "the wrong houses"?

The media let you think that the frequency of those incidents is high because they only talk about them. In truth, for every incident, there are thousands of successful operations.

They just don't make the headlines, because everybody expects those operations to be successful.

"It's all part of the plan."

 

[KALEL114]

Still can't find this story on a legit news site. I even checked the local news from where this supposedly happened. Nothing.

 

[Kelly]

Its not on any mainstream news site, only sites like copblock.org....etc.

 

[KALEL114]

Yep. Highly questionable in this day and age.

 

[Kelly]

If any cops went into my house & shot my dogs or harassed my family, I'd definitely retaliate aggressively.

I just went to the largest newspaper in that area...."no results"

 

[Kelly]

I found a legitimate site with it....here is what they wrote.

By John Borsa WKBW-TV
updated 8/31/2012 7:17:48 AM ET
BUFFALO, NY (WKBW) - When Rita Hairston's husband died five years ago, she adopted a dog to keep her company and help her through an emotional time.
Prada was 5-years-old at the time. The black Labrador Retriever became more than a pet, but a part of Hairston's family. A companion.
Last Saturday morning, she returned to her E. Morris Ave. house in University Heights in Buffalo and discovered her home had been broken into and Prada was missing.
There was a puddle of blood on the floor and bullet holes in the door of a bedroom where Prada slept.
But it was not a burglar who broke in. Hairston found a search warrant, signed by a judge, issued to the Erie County Sheriff's Department, on her kitchen floor.
Hairston said police raided her home, searching for cocaine, connected to a man named Lance Thompson.
Hairston said she rents another home she owns to Thompson, who dates her daughter, but he does not live in her residence and she has absolutely no connection to his alleged illegal activities.
A spokesperson for the sheriff's office said they had probable cause to search Hairston's residence because Thompson's alleged drug activities were suspected to take place from Hairston's house on occasion. The home which she rents to Thompson was also searched.
Deputies were forced to shoot and kill Prada during the raid because he threatened them, the spokesman said.
No drugs were recovered from Hairston's home.

 

[KALEL114]

So one questionable blog took this story and twisted and changed it or just made up their story all together?

I am going to label this as fake. If it gets picked up by more places, then we can discuss it. As is though, the story originated from a blog and listed no sources. I am closing the thread. If some one wants to discuss the story Kelly posted, please make a new thread.