Cops on stakeout see 12-year-old kid running with a toy gun, and shoot him dead

[Matt]

Oh, and just for the record, it was the Department of Justice (on the federal level) that cleared this guy. They aren't looking to do a cop any favor or hide evidence. Their job is to put corrupt cops behind bars. It is what they exisit for. The Department of Justice is a far cry from some local department's internal affairs office of one cop who is the buddy of everyone on the force. There is no conspiracy here.

 

[TBadora]

No, see, you're not debating the evidence. You are not thinking critically. You are simply saying "I saw this on Youtube so cops are teh badz!" where as I am putting aside my biases (and everyone has biases one way or another) and debating the facts. At any rate, you're an idiot so I am done arguing this.

Listen to what I am saying:

Regardless of all evidence, there would be a lot less cases of misbehaving cops if the cops were given less room for error. One way or another, this would have affected this cops judgment in shooting a child in the head.

BTW: I have never heard, in my entire life, that cops must shoot to kill. If you are right, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard on my time on this planet.

 

[Matt]

Listen to what I am saying:

Regardless of all evidence, there would be a lot less cases of misbehaving cops if the cops were given less room for error. One way or another, this would have affected this cops judgment in shooting a child in the head.

BTW: I have never heard, in my entire life, that cops must shoot to kill. If you are right, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard on my time on this planet.

No its not. Legs and arms are small and hard to hit which gives a suspect time to unload a whole clip on cops or innocents while you try to hit the leg. Or you shoot a 400 lbs man in the leg, he doesn't go down and he shoots a bystander.

 

[TBadora]

Oh, and just for the record, it was the Department of Justice (on the federal level) that cleared this guy. They aren't looking to do a cop any favor or hide evidence. Their job is to put corrupt cops behind bars. It is what they exisit for. The Department of Justice is a far cry from some local department's internal affairs office of one cop who is the buddy of everyone on the force. There is no conspiracy here.

Not true, corrupt cops get away all the time. There is something out there about courtrooms being reluctant to punish cops because it will be used in reference to taint police history in later courtroom cases.

 

[TBadora]

No its not. Legs and arms are small and hard to hit which gives a suspect time to unload a whole clip on cops or innocents while you try to hit the leg. Or you shoot a 400 lbs man in the leg, he doesn't go down and he shoots a bystander.

You stated that cops must shoot in the torso first (twice) than the head. I don't know if you have ever been shot, but one hit is more often than not enough to put you down for a while, not alone two. The one to the head can be reserved for the 400lb man who still doesn't go down (which is just as rare as corrupt cops). I am sure if this cop shot the kid in the torso, the kid would have been town long enough for the arrest. If it was a big kid, two shots would have definitely done the job.

 

[TBadora]

I also found this short summary on the case:

http://www.injuryhelpline.com/index.rwl?category=news&section=wrongful+death&article=Mother+of+12-year-old+killed+by+police+files+$225M+lawsuit+&id=4175


Here's some quotes from the link:

According to the suit, when Erik Sammis was hired by the police department in February 1996, he had a history of violence and insubordination.

The law suit also pointed out that Erik Sammis was repeatedly disciplined for various acts of misfeasance or malfeasance by the department and was the target of several citizen complaints.

According to the suit, Police Chief Robert Paudert, Mayor William Johnson and the city did not take any action to protect the citizens of West Memphis from Sammis's unrestrained and unjustified violence.


The cop was clearly dirty. They should have thrown the book at him and sentenced him some serious jail time.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

I also found this short summary on the case:

http://www.injuryhelpline.com/index.rwl?category=news&section=wrongful+death&article=Mother+of+12-year-old+killed+by+police+files+$225M+lawsuit+&id=4175


Here's some quotes from the link:

According to the suit, when Erik Sammis was hired by the police department in February 1996, he had a history of violence and insubordination.

The law suit also pointed out that Erik Sammis was repeatedly disciplined for various acts of misfeasance or malfeasance by the department and was the target of several citizen complaints.

According to the suit, Police Chief Robert Paudert, Mayor William Johnson and the city did not take any action to protect the citizens of West Memphis from Sammis's unrestrained and unjustified violence.


The cop was clearly dirty. They should have thrown the book at him and sentenced him some serious jail time.

Dirty is stretching it a bit don't you think.

I mean he looks like he suffers from something I call super cop syndrome, which is not a real disease before someone starts looking it up, Its just the headstrong types that get out of the academy and want to prove they were worth the money their respected citys put into sending them. Then every now and then you get a cop thats just a prick, doesn't necesarrily mean hes dirty just not a people person have someone like that working at the department I work for now.

I live about 25 miles from west memphis.

 

[enterthemadness]

I am 100 % sure that most law enforcement agencies include the FBI, and LA and NYPD include the head shot do to the prevelance of body armor.

Isn't 2 to the chest, 1 to the head execution style? In any case, I'm sure 1 to the head is enough to bring a person down. No need to waste more bullets.

 

[PemLam]

I have been a police officer in both the military and civilian sectors; police are not trained to "shoot to wound". Our training consists of firing double taps (two shots) at center mass, no more, no less. The only police (other than Federal and Military) that are taught to shoot anywhere other than center mass are snipers. Snipers are given specific instructions depending on the scenario they are in. (Local state rules may differ a little).

What this officer did was tragic and as some of you hope, he will have this on his conscience forever. However it doesn't matter if you're on a "stake-out" or not, if you see an obvious threat to public safety, such as someone running down the street brandishing a weapon, you deal with that threat.

I enjoy reading some of the bull***** stories some of you come up with as "justification" for bashing or hating cops.

 

[Sloth7d]

They're BS because crooked cops don't exist obvious.
Geez, it's like a scientist trying to talk to a christian here.

 

[PemLam]

They're BS because crooked cops don't exist obvious.
Geez, it's like a scientist trying to talk to a christian here.

I never said crooked cops don't exist...but I'm pretty sure we'd be reading a thread on SHH about it if someone were confronted on a sidewalk, handcuffed to their ankles and beaten by police. Christ, if someone's going to lie about something...at least make it somewhat realistic.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Numerous ways. It is an already sensitive case. Public demand/perception could turn the prosecutor into a politican as opposed to a prosecutor and affect the decisions that are made in the investigation.

Well, if the picture came out and it was an obvious toy gun, then people have the right to know. I mean, hell, our taxes go to these guys, we have to make sure these guys are competant enough to tell the difference.

 

[kane9321]

sometimes you just cant tell if a gun is real or not...sooo sad

 

[Sloth7d]

I never said crooked cops don't exist...but I'm pretty sure we'd be reading a thread on SHH about it if someone were confronted on a sidewalk, handcuffed to their ankles and beaten by police. Christ, if someone's going to lie about something...at least make it somewhat realistic.

The one story I posted was aired on court tv. That really happened.
It was ridiculous, offensive, and outrageous but happened.

And sorry for getting smart mouthed for a second there, but I've been harrassed by cops so many times before.

 

[Matt]

The one story I posted was aired on court tv. That really happened.
It was ridiculous, offensive, and outrageous but happened.

And sorry for getting smart mouthed for a second there, but I've been harrassed by cops so many times before.

But no one is denying there are corrupt cops.

 

[PemLam]

The one story I posted was aired on court tv. That really happened.
It was ridiculous, offensive, and outrageous but happened.

And sorry for getting smart mouthed for a second there, but I've been harrassed by cops so many times before.

No problem...people are passionate about certain issues.

 

[Sloth7d]

But no one is denying there are corrupt cops.

Okay. That was a bad assumption on my part. Though I still really want to see a picture of the toy gun. I can understand if the cop shot the boy if the toy gun looked like one of the imitators you posted just to be clear. Still is very tragic though.

 

[raybia]

I think there is an inherrant difference. Drug dealers on the border are a minimal occurence and not nearly as much as the media portrays. Most people trying to cross the border are simple illegal immigrants. Lower class Mexican citizens looking for work. A lot of them won't stop if you pull a gun on them. You can't shoot them for that. Rubber bullets are a good alternative. Not to mention there ARE special teams that use live fire arms for major shoot outs on the border.

This guy on the other hand was a cop on stake out who was faced with a split second decision. It could've been a suspect just as easily. And I'm sure you don't need to wish that on him as he probably will.

I'm sure the cop never anticipated kids coming out of nowhere in an obscure place as a neigborhood.

Way to minimize the life of an innocent 12 year old. As far as the cop is concern he should consider himself lucky if all he faces is nightmares.

If it was my son I would consider stalking this guy and blowing him away when
I got the opportunity. I bet some cops would think twice.

 

[Dwarf lord]

From the sounds of it, he was on a stakeout. That's very different than a random patrol. He was probably more or less expecting someone to come at him or someone else with a gun and some toy guns do in fact look real. When faced in that situation, there's no time to walk over and ask if the gun's real or not. That could get you or other people killed. It was a tragic thing, but all he did was what he was trained to do.

 

[TBadora]

There are three things I'd like to find out about the case:
1)The exact model of toy gun used
2)Why the cop shot twice, when once shot would have done the job
3)The race of the child and the officer. I know some of you will say I am trying to turn it into a racist thing but you can never be too sure in the U.S., especially with a cop who had a history of violent behavior and insubordination prior to being hired as a cop.

Edit:

Just read that the cop shot the child in the leg first then a second time when the child was on the ground.
Found out the gun was clearly a toy.
Also found out that the child was black and the cop was white.

 

[TBadora]

I found a photo of the child involved in the case:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_1ATnOmiGPsQ...B7w/hxRkLTrBVt0/s1600-h/deaunta+picture+2.jpg

Found a pic of the murderer:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_uR9I-YSzTXc/RoronulottI/AAAAAAAABzY/3kkE4x0Mw5U/s1600-h/erik_1.jpg


Found a description of the gun: http://thadmatthews.blogspot.com/

"Even though there is a toy gun that the West Memphis police say belonged to DeAunta it's very apparent that the gun was a toy complete with a orange neon tip." - Flys in the face of Matt's crude pic of the 3 look alike guns. This one was clearly a toy and the cop still opened fire.

Here is some history on the cop:

"In October of 2004, Sammis became the first WMPD officer to use one of the department’s newly issued Taser guns. He tasered a man he admits was widely known by officers to be “an emotionally disturbed person.” Sammis says the man had an aluminum baseball bat that could have been used as a deadly weapon.


Sammis has written about the use of deadly force. In his 1995 personal history statement to the Arkansas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards, he wrote. “Deadly force should be the last option used after all other means to neutralize the threat is exhausted.” Without offering any specifics of the event, he continues, “I have been in a deadly force situation already and would not hesitate to use it again, if absolutely necessary.”

 

[twylight]

There are three things I'd like to find out about the case:
1)The exact model of toy gun used
2)Why the cop shot twice, when once shot would have done the job
3)The race of the child and the officer. I know some of you will say I am trying to turn it into a racist thing but you can never be too sure in the U.S., especially with a cop who had a history of violent behavior and insubordination prior to being hired as a cop.

Edit:

Just read that the cop shot the child in the leg first then a second time when the child was on the ground

Umm..yeah I mentioned it earlier in the thread when you were going on about a conspiracy.

Guud Lawd! Ya'll are still on this topic?

 

[Matt]

I found a photo of the child involved in the case:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_1ATnOmiGPsQ...B7w/hxRkLTrBVt0/s1600-h/deaunta+picture+2.jpg

Found a pic of the murderer:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_uR9I-YSzTXc/RoronulottI/AAAAAAAABzY/3kkE4x0Mw5U/s1600-h/erik_1.jpg


Found a description of the gun: http://thadmatthews.blogspot.com/

"Even though there is a toy gun that the West Memphis police say belonged to DeAunta it's very apparent that the gun was a toy complete with a orange neon tip." - Flys in the face of Matt's crude pic of the 3 look alike guns. This one was clearly a toy and the cop still opened fire.

Not really.

Toy gun with a neon tip. Still pretty damn hard to tell. Especially from a distance if it is dark.

Come off it Badora. You have been looking for a reason to crucify this guy from the get go.

 

[huskerwebhead]

Found a description of the gun: http://thadmatthews.blogspot.com/

Not really the most biased source for this topic.

 

[TBadora]

Not really.

Toy gun with a neon tip. Still pretty damn hard to tell. Especially from a distance if it is dark.

Come off it Badora. You have been looking for a reason to crucify this guy from the get go.

Is that really the gun in question, from the case?