Creator Bout 1: Battle of the Brits part 1 Moore vs Gaiman

[VOGLER]

Moore

 

[Sandman138]

Honestly, I think Moore wins by a good amount. I know I'm going to be crucified for this, but I read five volumes of Sandman and didn't really like it. I mean, a lot of my friends said that it's the greatest comic ever, and when I read it, I wasn't that moved. I mean, some of the stuff was good (I liked 'The Doll's House'), but overall I just didn't like it.

Moore, on the other hand, has written consistantly awesome stuff, no matter what genre it is. Whether it's superheroes, futuristic, fantasy, he can do it all. But I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Top Ten. I picked it up this summer and it was one of the best comics I've read in a long time and I'm pissed as hell that he's not going to do any more.

I'm sorry, but Gaiman wipes the floor with Moore's cave man beard when it comes to fantasy. I can't comprehend how anybody could say otherwise. Why exactly did you not like Sandman and what tpb's did you read (if you haven't read Fables and Reflections, I'd highly recomend you read it). Give at least one reason before you go and say you just didn't like it.

Moore has done more for graphic storytelling as an artform, no question. However, that's not what this is about. Moore could reinvent the medium (if he hasn't already, it's arguable) I would still vote for Gaiman. Three Septembers and a January, Men of Good Fortune, and Ramadan are my favorite stories in all of comics. I have yet to encounter any story as moving as those in any comic. Moore is a great writer, but Sandman transcends it's medium. Now the only question is, why is Art Speiglman not on this poll?

 

[Elijya]

cause art speigelman is a self-righteous little ***** who thinks he's too good for regular comics

 

[The Joker™]

Alan Moore he did my favorite book of all time, The Killing Joke.

I hope someday he takes on a Batman and Joker story again.

 

[Elijya]

not likely...

he refuses to work for DC or Marvel

 

[The Joker™]

I know, it sucks hes a rebel.

 

[Lackey]

cause art speigelman is a self-righteous little ***** who thinks he's too good for regular comics

wow, where's that coming from?

 

[Elijya]

I was exagerrating a bit, but the core's kind of true. Come on, how many comics has the guy done, even if they were good? only a handful. And yeah, he does bash pretty much the entire comics industry all the time

 

[Xofenroht]

Hmmm I'm crazy about both of them. However, I chose Gaiman. In a fight though, it would have to be Alan Moore. His magickal skill I think would come in handy, even though I think Neil could possibly gain the upperhand by telling a really really convincing lie.
Anyway, the thing about Alan Moore is that he makes you feel as if your next door neighbor could be a superhero. His writing doesn't take you anywhere, it brings that place to you. When I got done reading Watchmen, I turned on the news expecting to see video footage of a Lovecraftian monster sitting in the middle of Manhattan. After "V for Vendetta" I felt pretty much the same way (just replace the monster with a vigilante). He is an excellent writer and creator. However, Neil Gaiman is better.

Neil makes you question reality. He reminds you that perhaps being rational is illogical. When I was in 10th grade, my science teacher lent me "Stardust". After that, I almost got in trouble for buying "The Sandman" when my mom (thinking along the lines of $2.25) said "Oh go buy yourself a comicbook!" (it's her fault, don't give me $50 and tell me to go buy a comicbook). Anyway...Neil Gaiman is a true storyteller. He isn't just a writer or a novelist. He IS a storyteller. He can tell you the same story over and over again if he wants to, but you will never feel like it's the same thing, because every time he presents it to you, it's completely different from anything you've ever seen before. You don't really know what will happen with Neil Gaiman. PLUS his stories have amazing continuity.

The Sandman series
Books of Magic
Death: Time of Your Life
Death: The High Cost of Living
Stardust
Black Orchid
Mr. Punch
Swamp Thing (I think he wrote a few issues)
1602
etc.

Then you have his novels

Good Omens
American Gods (the best)
Neverwhere
Smoke and Mirrors (collection of short stories and poetry)
Anansi Boys
Etc.

 

[BrodieBruce]

The difference for me is easy. Moore creates people I want to run away from, Gaiman creates peopel I'd like to hang out with.

 

[Elijya]

The difference for me is easy. Moore creates people I want to run away from, Gaiman creates peopel I'd like to hang out with.

LOL

 

[The Leaguer]

Depends on the weapon of choice. Alan Moore is better with a battle axe and dual lightsabers, but give Gaiman a machine pistol or a rocket launcher and it's game over.

 

[Themanofbat]

Hmmm I'm crazy about both of them. However, I chose Gaiman. In a fight though, it would have to be Alan Moore. His magickal skill I think would come in handy, even though I think Neil could possibly gain the upperhand by telling a really really convincing lie.

Anyway, the thing about Alan Moore is that he makes you feel as if your next door neighbor could be a superhero. His writing doesn't take you anywhere, it brings that place to you. When I got done reading Watchmen, I turned on the news expecting to see video footage of a Lovecraftian monster sitting in the middle of Manhattan. After "V for Vendetta" I felt pretty much the same way (just replace the monster with a vigilante). He is an excellent writer and creator. However, Neil Gaiman is better.

Neil makes you question reality. He reminds you that perhaps being rational is illogical. When I was in 10th grade, my science teacher lent me "Stardust". After that, I almost got in trouble for buying "The Sandman" when my mom (thinking along the lines of $2.25) said "Oh go buy yourself a comicbook!" (it's her fault, don't give me $50 and tell me to go buy a comicbook). Anyway...Neil Gaiman is a true storyteller. He isn't just a writer or a novelist. He IS a storyteller. He can tell you the same story over and over again if he wants to, but you will never feel like it's the same thing, because every time he presents it to you, it's completely different from anything you've ever seen before. You don't really know what will happen with Neil Gaiman. PLUS his stories have amazing continuity.

The Sandman series
Books of Magic
Death: Time of Your Life
Death: The High Cost of Living
Stardust
Black Orchid
Mr. Punch
Swamp Thing (I think he wrote a few issues)
1602
etc.

Then you have his novels

Good Omens
American Gods (the best)
Neverwhere
Smoke and Mirrors (collection of short stories and poetry)
Anansi Boys
Etc.

I won't deny the pro-Gaimen stuff that you said, but give Moore credit.

First of all, Gaimen never wrote any Swamp Thing, that was all Moore (issues #20 to 64). Issue 21, "The Anatomy Lesson" will go down as one of THE best stories ever published by DC concerning one of its own from the DC Universe. And when Moore wrote the Killing Joke, he respected DC continuity from the Red Hood's origin from way back in Detective Comics #152, and used elements from that story. His Miralcleman/Marvelman was eons ahead of supe-hero storytelling back in 1981-82.

I like Gaimen, and read Sandman off the racks from issue 1 to 75, and they're great, but there were a few yawners in there as well.

However, as much as I love the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as well, Alan Moore wins this battle of the writers for his work on From Hell, one of THE best crafted comics ever told.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[The Question]

The difference for me is easy. Moore creates people I want to run away from, Gaiman creates peopel I'd like to hang out with.

Who doesn't want to hang out with Rorscach? He's the ****, man. And why would you want to hang out with Death? I mean, she seems fun and all, but hanging around her too long might start to give her ideas.

 

[BrodieBruce]

Who doesn't want to hang out with Rorscach? He's the ****, man. And why would you want to hang out with Death? I mean, she seems fun and all, but hanging around her too long might start to give her ideas.

I hope you're trying to be serious, cause that surely wasn't funny.

 

[The Question]

.....there's no need to be mean about it.

 

[Eric Draven]

I won't deny the pro-Gaimen stuff that you said, but give Moore credit.

First of all, Gaimen never wrote any Swamp Thing, that was all Moore (issues #20 to 64). Issue 21, "The Anatomy Lesson" will go down as one of THE best stories ever published by DC concerning one of its own from the DC Universe. And when Moore wrote the Killing Joke, he respected DC continuity from the Red Hood's origin from way back in Detective Comics #152, and used elements from that story. His Miralcleman/Marvelman was eons ahead of supe-hero storytelling back in 1981-82.

I like Gaimen, and read Sandman off the racks from issue 1 to 75, and they're great, but there were a few yawners in there as well.

However, as much as I love the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as well, Alan Moore wins this battle of the writers for his work on From Hell, one of THE best crafted comics ever told.

Just my 2 cents...

Actually, Neil Gaiman did write one issue of Swamp Thing. I think it was one of the annuals. It was Gaiman's first Swamp Thing issue and he and Delano were to follow Veitch on the regular series thereafter.

Unfortunately, that never happened

 

[The Watchman]

No, but Morrison is better than Gaiman at least.

 

[Elijya]

pfft, no way

 

[BrodieBruce]

Indeed!

 

[Not Jake]

Watchmen can never be overrated. If anything, I'd say it's UNDERRATED seeing as there are many new (hell, and old) readers who have never picked it up. If you read superhero comics, you MUST read Watchmen. It's that simple. End of story. You will never enjoy sub-par comics again. Your tastes will change instantly. For the better. Watchmen is the pinnacle of superhero comics. Everything that came after is walking in its shadow.

See, I don't feel this way. I read Watchmen, and I'd have to say that it's probably the best-written, best-crafted story I've read. But my favorite superhero comic is DKR. It's not as good as Watchmen, really. But I like it more. I think a character I've known for a long time resonates more with me on a base level than people I just familiarized myself over the course of a few issues. I read DKR first, if that matters. And I think that it is the pinnacle of superhero comics. In that I think Watchmen is a better story, but DKR is a better superhero story. Even though I only think it's a better superhero story because Miller was making Batman less superheroish. I won't be able to get my idea across, probably. Tired.

Again, I really respond more to the "classic" characters more. I fully know that I can pick Watchmen characters and fit characters I know and love into their shells, but it's not the same for me. I don't know if what I just said was a very clear statement or not. Fit them into Watchmen's archetypes? I dunno. Brain-fooked at 1:00 AM

 

[Elijya]

well, the watchmen characters were SUPPOSED to be the charlseton characters

 

[Not Jake]

i know, but that still wouldn't change that i had no connection with the characters.

 

[Elijya]

well, what if DKR was your first Batman story?

 

[Themanofbat]

well, what if DKR was your first Batman story?

I'd like to believe that could only happen if someone read the DKR nowadays as a TPB with no prior Batman comic reading. While not impossible, I'm sure it could happen.

But when DKR came out (and I was there), it was a $4.50 book at a time when regular comics were still a buck. So if you're a young reader looking to get into super-hero comics or Batman comics, chances are that DKR might have been a tad expensive to try out a Batman story. The same principal could also apply to an older reader who had yet to read a Batman story. Remember, at that time, Frank Miller was only known for his work on DareDevil, and his previous prestige format book, Ronin, was not that successful sales-wise, which also led to initial low orders for DKR.

Nonetheless, to answer your question... I think even IF The Dark Knight Returns was your first Batman read, you'd still have prior knowledge of who Batman is on the simple basis of media exposure... the movies, the cartoons, the bat-insignia on kids pj's & other clothing, action figures, colouring books, etc... thus giving someone a slight edge wjile reading DKR (or ANY Batman book) for the first time. But a person could go their lifetime without ever knowing who Dr.Manhatten was, or Rorschach, or heck, even the Blue Beetle, who was a Charlton character as well.