Daniel Craig confirmed as new James Bond

[Steelsheen]

Exactly. It's also the dumb version of equality - having a woman who is as good as the man at what he does. A strong female character isn't a copy of the male, she's equally strong but using female attributes. Granted, Bond movies are action and useless screaming damsels-in-distress don't really cut it anymore, but a female version of Bond doesn't cut it either. Wai Lin (Michelle Yeoh) worked because she had different skills from Bond, and they had to team up to get the job done. Jinx doesn't work because she can do everything 007 can and vice versa, so you essentially have two protagonists who can save the day. That's not only dramatically weak, it lessens Bond's character a lot.

so in the same context, Wonder Woman makes the character of Superman weak? because it sure doesnt look that way in any Justice League stories, if anything they compliment each other.

 

[regwec]

Comics aren't films, are they?

The way Bond films work is by having a dire situation with impossible odds that our man manages to overcome in the last moment by cunning, cool and panache. Constantly thinking that, "well, if Bond fails, Jinx'll do it" ruins all of that. In JLA comics, it is always a matter of teamwork overcoming adverse circumstances. Wonder Woman compliments Superman in that type of story, but rarely shows up in Superman's solitary titles, for exaclty the same reason that we shouldn't have Jinx-type characters in Bond.

They are two totally opposite narrative frameworks.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

I've just seen Layer Cake and I think Daniel Craig

Spoiler

could do a spot-on delivery of ''The ***** is dead now''

 

[Everyman]

The girls can make or break a Bond film. Ursula Andress was probably 30% of the reason that "Doctor No" was such an enormous success, able to get the whole ball rolling. Barbara Bach injected an otherwise absent vein of glamour to "The Spy who Loved Me" (though that film also had Jaws), and Famke Janssen as Xenia Onatopp made Goldeneye for me.

Halle Berry was very poor. I think it is probably right that the franchise should eschew big name actresses, as they erode the mystique of the Bond girls, and the sense of adventure in meeting them. I am also sick of having a mandatory "female equal to Bond" in every film. It seems totally forced, and often melts down the whole narrative thrust of the movie.

I agree on everything.

 

[Everyman]

Exactly. It's also the dumb version of equality - having a woman who is as good as the man at what he does. A strong female character isn't a copy of the male, she's equally strong but using female attributes. Granted, Bond movies are action and useless screaming damsels-in-distress don't really cut it anymore, but a female version of Bond doesn't cut it either. Wai Lin (Michelle Yeoh) worked because she had different skills from Bond, and they had to team up to get the job done. Jinx doesn't work because she can do everything 007 can and vice versa, so you essentially have two protagonists who can save the day. That's not only dramatically weak, it lessens Bond's character a lot.

Natalya (Izabella Scurupco) worked because she was a strong woman, a smart one, but she reacted believably to the chaos and death around her.

Jinx was written as a 007 equal, but she ended up being some stupid damsel in distress. She didn,t do much except to kill that surgeon and Miranda Frost, who wasn't exactly the most challenging adversary you can find.

I prefer my Bond girls as a pawn in the game, not the main protagonist, and certainly not equal to Bond. Am I the only one to miss the Domino and Honeychile type of Bond girls, the sort that happen to be there, and get into trouble with the badguy, without necessarily being a spy/mercenary? Natalya was a bit like that in Goldeneye: she was not a superwoman, just a skilled one who was at the wrong place at a wrong time. She worked much, much better than Jinx.

 

[Everyman]

so in the same context, Wonder Woman makes the character of Superman weak? because it sure doesnt look that way in any Justice League stories, if anything they compliment each other.

The Bond movies are about Bond, not about a CIA female agent who seems worried about her manicure when she runs... You don't need a female equivalent of your hero. It is superfluous, and to some extend harmful to the story.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

so in the same context, Wonder Woman makes the character of Superman weak? because it sure doesnt look that way in any Justice League stories, if anything they compliment each other.

No, because Justice League stories are built around multiple protagonists. Wonder Woman is as much the centre of the story as Superman. And Wonder Woman has different powers and abilities from Superman, plus a different character.

A better comparisson for you to have made would be Supergirl. Does putting Supergirl into a Superman story weaken Supes? Yes. As does Superboy, Superdog, Supercat, Superhorse, etc, etc, which is why DC ditched all of them in the post-crisis revamp.

You pick up a copy of JLA knowing you will see seven or so superheroes sharing the spotlight. You don't go to a Bond movie and expect to 007 in a tag-team with a new hero that EON want to spin-off into another franchise.

 

[regwec]

A better comparisson for you to have made would be Supergirl. Does putting Supergirl into a Superman story weaken Supes? Yes. As does Superboy, Superdog, Supercat, Superhorse, etc, etc, which is why DC ditched all of them in the post-crisis revamp.

Bad news: the b!tch is back, only now she is more powerful than Supes, and acts roughly like Paris Hilton.

We should have a poll of the best Bond girls. I can't decide between XXX and Domino.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Bad news: the b!tch is back, only now she is more powerful than Supes, and acts roughly like Paris Hilton.

Yeah, I know Supergirl has been back in one form or another almost since Crisis; I like Supergirl and of course a lot of fans do, but from a purely story-telling standpoint, it's better to just have one Superman, no spin-offs, one survivor of Krypton, one character who can save the world, etc.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Glad there's no female fans that bother with this thread

 

[Kevin Roegele]

We should have a poll of the best Bond girls. I can't decide between XXX and Domino.

Good call. I'd say of the two I prefer Domino, simply because she wasn't played by Barabara Bach, who was like a beautiful deer in front of the headlamps. Does that make any sense at all?

 

[Everyman]

Bad news: the b!tch is back, only now she is more powerful than Supes, and acts roughly like Paris Hilton.

We should have a poll of the best Bond girls. I can't decide between XXX and Domino.

Of the two, I would say Domino, she was nearly a tragic character really, caught in a situation she didn't want to be in, in a game she couldn't understand, manipulated by Largo and to some extend by Bond.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Glad there's no female fans that bother with this thread

Why? We're not being sexist.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Why? We're not being sexist.

Well you guys seem to prefer passive Bond girls who are pawns which im sure bore the female Audience,one of my Favourites is Melina from For Your Eyes Only she has a good mix of qualities IMO

 

[regwec]

Well you guys seem to prefer passive Bond girls who are pawns which im sure bore the female Audience,one of my Favourites is Melina from For Your Eyes Only she has a good mix of qualities IMO

Nobody could accuse me of sexism. I got endless **** for creating a thread where I suggested that women should rule the world.

The fact is that a movie does not have to exactly match the politically correct social model of the day. The "gangster's moll" is a movie archetype because it reflects reality to a strong degree: brutal men tend to brutalise women. This allows Bond to enter their world like a shining knight, defeat their oppressor, and set them free. There's nothing sexist about that; it is simply more believable than 007 happening, by coincidence, to meet a tough-talking, self confident, physically perfect and equally-as-smart superwoman wherever he travels.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Well you guys seem to prefer passive Bond girls who are pawns which im sure bore the female Audience,one of my Favourites is Melina from For Your Eyes Only she has a good mix of qualities IMO

None of us said we prefer passive Bond girls.

My earlier post says, "useless screaming damsels-in-distress don't really cut it anymore."

 

[Everyman]

Well you guys seem to prefer passive Bond girls who are pawns which im sure bore the female Audience,one of my Favourites is Melina from For Your Eyes Only she has a good mix of qualities IMO

DOmino was a great, tragic character, and passive, up to a certain point. She did kill Largo. Melina was not passive, but she was uenxperienced and gauche. Stepping in a game she didn't know. What I really love about Domino is that she didn't want to be in the spy game, and her emancipation at the end was all the more satisfying.

 

[Everyman]

Nobody could accuse me of sexism. I got endless **** for creating a thread where I suggested that women should rule the world.

The fact is that a movie does not have to exactly match the politically correct social model of the day. The "gangster's moll" is a movie archetype because it reflects reality to a strong degree: brutal men tend to brutalise women. This allows Bond to enter their world like a shining knight, defeat their oppressor, and set them free. There's nothing sexist about that; it is simply more believable than 007 happening, by coincidence, to meet a tough-talking, self confident, physically perfect and equally-as-smart superwoman wherever he travels.

Agreed. And it is also more intelligent, and more dramatically relevant. I wouldn't have been sad had Jinx died, not only because she was annoying, but because she would have died in mission. Paris Carver, although dramatically underwritten, and played by a star (I hate when they do this), managed to give me a better impression, and I felt (a bit) when she died: she didn't ask to be involved.

 

[Everyman]

None of us said we prefer passive Bond girls.

My earlier post says, "useless screaming damsels-in-distress don't really cut it anymore."

What he doesn,t udnerstand, I think, is that you can be a strong and itneresting female character and yet not a superbabe-spy or 007 in a miniskirt... Being a female spy often detracts from the character, from James Bond, and from the whole movie. It certainly didn't work in Die Another Day, and I don't think it did in Licence to Kill (I prefered Sanchez's mistress, a more interesting character IMO than the DEA agent). I think for the next movies, they should go back to basis: a modernised Bond girl, but a real Bond girl, not a miniskirt Bond, recurring villains, etc.

 

[Hunter Rider]

What he doesn,t udnerstand, I think, is that you can be a strong and itneresting female character and yet not a superbabe-spy or 007 in a miniskirt... Being a female spy often detracts from the character, from James Bond, and from the whole movie. It certainly didn't work in Die Another Day, and I don't think it did in Licence to Kill (I prefered Sanchez's mistress, a more interesting character IMO than the DEA agent). I think for the next movies, they should go back to basis: a modernised Bond girl, but a real Bond girl, not a miniskirt Bond, recurring villains, etc.

I understand fine it just felt like you were opposed to the Bond girl being a kickass Spy herself

 

[regwec]

I understand fine it just felt like you were opposed to the Bond girl being a kickass Spy herself

Uh, we are...Aren't we?

 

[Everyman]

I understand fine it just felt like you were opposed to the Bond girl being a kickass Spy herself

I think we are, and we have good reasons to be. There is already one kick ass spy in the movie, and his name is James Bond. A female kick ass spy is superfluous.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Thats fine if thats how you feel my joke earlier was just that i doubt the female viewers feel quite the same


BTW anyone setting up the hottest Bond Girl thread ?,i can't find any good pics of the older ones

 

[regwec]

http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-girls.php I'm tired and a trifle tipsy, so I'd just bugger it up.

 

[Everyman]

Thats fine if thats how you feel my joke earlier was just that i doubt the female viewers feel quite the same


BTW anyone setting up the hottest Bond Girl thread ?,i can't find any good pics of the older ones

Well, there are a lot of female Bond fans, and I know they prefer when Bond does the job, and not a chick version of him.