Justice League Danny Elfman Scoring Justice League - Part 2

[Patchwork Man]

"Praise to the Unity! Praise to the Mother of Horrors...."

Hinds' voice is awesome. Loved it just about anytime he spoke, except for the very, very end, when he's going "Nah! Wutz this! Get off me, y'all!

 

[Patchwork Man]

There's more melodic interplay in any handful of tracks of this score than there is in any other superhero score I can think of.

If you don't like the themes - fair enough, but to say they're not there is factually wrong. In those big action cues there's hardly twemty seconds that go by without some sort of reference to the dozen or so themes.

May want to listen to more scores?

 

[Patchwork Man]

Edit.

 

[fancyarcher]

May want to listen to more scores?

I think he's referring to the DC scores in general. Elfman's JL I certainly found to be the most accomplished of the bunch, even if I didn't think it was THAT great.

In the film it worked fine, but I could barely hear under all that sound, though it's par for the course for most modern film music.

 

[kguillou]

Maybe thats the real issue with Elfman's score, its not mixed well within the film. Maybe if the movie mixed it in a way where we can HEAR it especially during the really cool moments instead of just dissolving in the background it would have more impact. Music should amplify the film, especially the cool moments.

Take this scene from MoS for example:


[YT]41OrCjg0m8M[/YT]

Listen to how Zimmer's score amplifies the tension and menace during this whole sequence, especially when Faora is wooping the s*** out of Kal-El. That's what I'm talkin' about, it complements the film.

 

[Patchwork Man]

I think he's referring to the DC scores in general. Elfman's JL I certainly found to be the most accomplished of the bunch, even if I didn't think it was THAT great.

In the film it worked fine, but I could barely hear under all that sound, though it's par for the course for most modern film music.

He wrote "than there is in any other superhero score I can think of."

We have to assume he means all of them, till he says otherwise.

At last night's screening, the score was mixed better. Apart from reprising Wonder Woman's theme, and the music arranged for Themyscira, it still sounded less than impressive.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Maybe thats the real issue with Elfman's score, its not mixed well within the film. Maybe if the movie mixed it in a way where we can HEAR it especially during the really cool moments instead of just dissolving in the background it would have more impact. Music should amplify the film, especially the cool moments.

Listen to how Zimmer's score amplifies the tension and menace during this whole sequence, especially when Faora is wooping the s*** out of Kal-El. That's what I'm talkin' about, it complements the film.

 

[mclay18]

[YT]ebXB0lBoaQ0[/YT]

It's already been done perfectly by Snyder (and I'd guess Hans) here in this Short by going from Williams to Zimmer (because Zimmer's score is this Superman's theme, not William's); so if William's had to be included at all it should have transitioned to and ended on Zimmer playing loud and proud.

It really wasn't much of a transition... more of a fade out to Zimmer's version. Musically, it could've been done better -- and sorely missing Shirley Walker's animated Superman theme.

I wish Elfman had played around with Zimmer's material the way he did Silvestri's Avengers theme and Williams' Superman theme. Have it warp and integrate with Williams' major key chords pre-Mother Box, and then have Williams' theme represent the happier rebirth of the character in the climax.

 

[Benal]

Brah.. I Just clicked on a track with 20k views on the watertower channel.

I.. I don't know what to say.

If you don't count the 'Evreybody Knows' cover, which was produced under Snyder, Elfman tracks pulled 1.7 million views on Youtube. Together. All of them. And that's after his 'Hero's theme' got a big push from EW.

BvS tracks are at 30 million combined. And there are 18 tracks, compared to 23 for Justice League.

Yes, it's been like 18 months since BvS but I remember big numbers for that soundtrack from early on

 

[RomanticPenguin]

everybody knows

 

[TheTarkKnight]

I understand what Elfman was trying to do. But he took both the Batman and Superman themes and applied them as is. I for one thought the beginning of the John Williams' Superman theme would've been perfect for the return of Superman, but Elfman took such parts of that theme and applied them in such a way that you can tell they were forced in. There's no harmony to it with the rest of the score. I wish he took the themes and played around with them a bit. For instance, the Elfman Batman theme DOES NOT work with THIS Batman AT ALL. Having notes from the Elfman Batman theme works, but not the whole thing. It seemed to me like a bad Youtube video/audio edit by a fan. Just did not work for me.

I agree with the comments above. Zimmer and Junkie played in themes that helped alleviate the scenes in such a way that it pulled you further into the scene. The action.

Elfman did a meh job. I know he didn't have much time, but he's Elfman. Expectations are high. In a video he says "there's always been only ONE Batman theme", and he insists at it. Danny, look: if you can't pull off a better one, say you can't do better and step down OR just praise Zimmer and Junkie and use their themes and blend in your own.

Zimmer and Junkie's themes go with these modern characters. Elfman and Williams' themes are fantastic...when I hear them they give me goosebumps. But they do NOT go with these characters today.

I'm thinking perhaps this whole deal with doing away with Zimmer's score and replacing it with Elfman's put Elfman/Zimmer and Junkie in an absurd position personally as well.

 

[Galactus123]

At what point was the John Williams Superman theme used? I could only spot the 1989 Batman theme.

 

[Arachnerd]

A dark variation of it plays when he's at the memorial, and the actual theme pops up again, though very briefly, when he delivers the "big fan of justice" line and socks Steppenwolf in the face.

 

[Elevator Man]

I understand what Elfman was trying to do. But he took both the Batman and Superman themes and applied them as is. I for one thought the beginning of the John Williams' Superman theme would've been perfect for the return of Superman, but Elfman took such parts of that theme and applied them in such a way that you can tell they were forced in. There's no harmony to it with the rest of the score. I wish he took the themes and played around with them a bit.

Elfman was only twisting the Williams theme because of how uncertain the League was on whether Superman was on their side or not. It was just an easter egg that some fans would notice. He wasn't trying to adapt the theme in it's full glory

Elfman did a meh job. I know he didn't have much time, but he's Elfman. Expectations are high.

I'll just respond to this comment with this quote from a recent THR interview with Elfman about some of the obstacles of scoring JL.

There's been plenty of speculation about how much of the final product is Snyder's and how much is Whedon's. Elfman says that much of the film was being shot as he wrote the score, and that he never scored any of the retooled Snyder footage that didn't make it into the film. Things were so last-minute that at times he wouldn't be composing to actual footage.

"I had a lot of storyboards in place of action. There would be full scenes and then a five-minute sequence of storyboards. Honestly, it was like working on an animated film," says Elfman. "I didn’t score any of the unused footage, the movie that came out is the movie I scored, it was just in very rough form."

Based off that and the lack of quality from the final product I think Elfman did the best he could with what he was given, which wasn't much to work with, imo.

 

[Consona]

[YT]hUafqr_fJW8[/YT]

Just to recall good old days and what could have been...

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

You don't switch Awesome for Generic. I don't know how after hearing "Is She With You" anyone would choose to not stick with Zimmer and XL.

 

[mclay18]

At what point was the John Williams Superman theme used? I could only spot the 1989 Batman theme.

Elfman rearranged the theme and only portions of it end up used in the film. It pops up in "Friends and Allies" and "Final Battle."

You don't switch Awesome for Generic. I don't know how after hearing "Is She With You" anyone would choose to not stick with Zimmer and XL.

Just... stop.

You guys are too used to Zimmer and co's sound design scoring. You don't know how his style has set back film scoring since 2003.

It is refreshing to hear an orchestral superhero score with themes and motifs in a DC film again. And Elfman's arrangement of "Is She With You" sounds better with a full orchestra, rather than electric cello.

 

[Patchwork Man]

You don't know how his style has set back film scoring since 2003.

I've listened to film scores for 35+ years and such a remark is without merit. If you prefer traditional scores, fine, but don't take a wholesale dump all over Zimmer's oeuvre because it doesn't fall in line with your tastes.

And Elfman's arrangement of "Is She With You" sounds better with a full orchestra, rather than electric cello.

Again, your opinion. IMHO, it sounds vastly better with the electric cello, because the melody isn't dampened.

 

[kguillou]

Elfman rearranged the theme and only portions of it end up used in the film. It pops up in "Friends and Allies" and "Final Battle."



Just... stop.

You guys are too used to Zimmer and co's sound design scoring. You don't know how his style has set back film scoring since 2003.

It is refreshing to hear an orchestral superhero score with themes and motifs in a DC film again. And Elfman's arrangement of "Is She With You" sounds better with a full orchestra, rather than electric cello.

I respectfully, but highly disagree man. Look, I love full orchestral scores, too: Elfman's Batman '89 soundtrack is, imo, one of the best movie soundtracks ever along with Williams' Superman '78 score as well as his Star Wars scores. They're all amazing. But I think its reductive to not see Zimmer's contribution. What I, and probably a lot of people, LOVE about the Zimmer sound is it adds a sense of grandiosity to the films its being used in. Action scenes have a sense of fist pumping adrenaline to them that you just don't get with that traditional orchestral sound. What would Gal Gadot's epic entrance in BvS have been like if it DIDN'T have that epic electric cello theme booming in to introduce her? Its that kind of stuff that just enhances the moment so so much.

Like it or not, these DC movies have a little more grit and edge and grandiosity to them which makes the "Zimmer sound" a perfect fit. Elfman's score just wasn't compatible with this film, plain and simple. IT FELT like it just didn't fit with the images being shown onscreen. And, to top it all off, you barely even NOTICED his score in the first place. You could barely hear the Batman '89 and Superman '78 motifs because 1) the sound was mixed way too low and 2) Elfman didn't event fully commit to those themes, he just barely hinted at them. How much better would that scene of Batman hitting the streets in the Batmobile blasting Parademons have been if Elfman cranked the volume up and we heard the FULL Batman '89 march booming through the speakers? That's the kind of stuff that excites the crowd and gets people clapping and cheering. But for all of his talk of "bringing themes back into films" Elfman seemed very reluctant to do exactly that.

 

[moviedoors]

[YT]hUafqr_fJW8[/YT]

Just to recall good old days and what could have been...

A 46 minute break down of a single track from BvS by Junkie XL? We aren't supposed to be posting porn.

 

[Elevator Man]

You could barely hear the Batman '89 and Superman '78 motifs because 1) the sound was mixed way too low and 2) Elfman didn't event fully commit to those themes, he just barely hinted at them. How much better would that scene of Batman hitting the streets in the Batmobile blasting Parademons have been if Elfman cranked the volume up and we heard the FULL Batman '89 march booming through the speakers? That's the kind of stuff that excites the crowd and gets people clapping and cheering. But for all of his talk of "bringing themes back into films" Elfman seemed very reluctant to do exactly that.

Despite what you and some may believe but composers aren't sound mixers. They don't have much of a say in how a score is mixed or edited in a movie. Some cues get dialed out, edited, replaced with other music/cues, or tracked in, etc. Decisions like that are made by the directors, editors, producers and sound mixers. It out of the composer's hands unfortunately.

 

[Gieferg]

You don't switch Awesome for Generic.

In case of JL, they switched Generic for Awesome.

 

[Arachnerd]

No, they switched bombastic for hollow background music.

 

[kguillou]

There isn't even any recurring thematic motifs that run through the score like most movie scores have, which is a big problem. The only one is the Flash's but other than that there's barely any recognizable themes of motifs throughout the film.

 

[Cobblepot]

Honestly the only thing I remember form Elfman's score in JL was when he wen't full oldscool jingles at the start of the Wonderwoman bank scene. It made me want to hide under my seat in shame...

< Coming from someone who's favourite Batman is still '89!