Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 5

[Dark Raven]

I hope Elektra w'ont be your average californian girl this time around. Elektra's characterization in the DD movie was quite bad.

I hope she comes across as quite Greek, and looks decidedly different from Jennifer Garner. I didn't feel like she was Elektra at all. And she was like a completely different person in her own movie. Where did this obsessive compulsiveness come from all of a sudden, when she didn't have it in DD? But they were implying she always had it from a young age and that she was always brooding and dark (which she wasn't at all in DD).

 

[aNarcHy2day]

They did already hint at her being Greek, didn't they?

They have treated their characters well so far and I don't see a reason for them to stop now.

 

[metaphysician]

That was just a spammer....now deceased.

Wow, I didn't know SHH enforced bannings via the League of Assassins. . .

 

[Mister J]

Place your bets, Marvelites. When Daredevil returns for its second season on Netflix, the streets of Hell’s Kitchen will quickly become an arena for The Man Without Fear and The Punisher.

New reports claim that Daredevil and The Punisher (played by Jon Bernthal) will lock horn heads throughout Daredevil Season Two. Marvel’s biggest vigilantes will grapple each other’s throats so fiercely, that most see Frank Castle as one of Season Two’s larger antagonists. And according to a anonymous source with Nerdist, Daredevil’s new co-showrunner Marco Ramirez has labeled the upcoming season as “Daredevil Vs. Punisher.” If Daredevil were around, he’d probably get a splitting headache from the cacophony of fans’ hearts exploding in their chests.

This face-off may transcend into a philosophical one, however, as Daredevil and Punisher will clash over their different executions of street justice (with Punisher taking “Execution far more literally). There would still be another “big bad” lurking through the second season, whom Daredevil and Punisher would have to defeat together. Many point to Daredevil adversary Bullseye as the second season’s real villain, but Marvel has not confirmed the sadistic marksmen’s involvement yet.

http://comicbook.com/2015/06/26/daredevil-season-2-is-being-referred-to-as-daredevil-vs-the-puni/

If that means more Bernthal throughout the season (in a strong recurring role), bring it.

 

[BatsDC]

I just hope this doesn't mean this season will be as slow as the first.

 

[Mister J]

If Frank is blowing up **** and offing *****es like he should to gets things moving (which inititally gets Matt's attention), we should be good.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Finally finished the full season, took me longer than expected. It started out superb but after around episode 7 things dipped a little bit. I liked episodes 10 and 11 despite there being no action, but episodes 12 and 13 were a little lacking for me. I think it was a mistake to split the Nobu fight up throughout that episode, and the fight with the Kingpin was a little disappointing, but still good. It seemed like they ran out of budget or something halfway through. Overall all though a really good show and one of, if not the best thing Marvel has done. Joint best superhero show with The Flash for me, 9/10.

Also, I have to say, I am so excited for season 2, Bernthal as the Punisher is such perfect casting, and I hope we get to see lots of him. Kingpin is obviously going to get out of prison also. Really hope we see DD and The Punisher in the movies sooner rather later.

 

[Loki882]

I hope that Frank isn't the main villain of S2. One, he's not really a "villain" per se anyway, and trying to make him into one doesn't work to be. And two, a "battle of the vigilantes" could work for a few episodes, but not a whole season imo.

I'd much prefer that they just clash over their different philosophies, but that there's an actual villain pulling the strings (Fisk, Vanessa, The Owl 2.0, whoever).

 

[Loki882]

I hope she comes across as quite Greek, and looks decidedly different from Jennifer Garner. I didn't feel like she was Elektra at all. And she was like a completely different person in her own movie. Where did this obsessive compulsiveness come from all of a sudden, when she didn't have it in DD? But they were implying she always had it from a young age and that she was always brooding and dark (which she wasn't at all in DD).

Her dad also comes across as a COMPLETELY different person in the flashbacks than he did in DD, and the whole "mother's death" thing comes completely out of nowhere. It's like they wanted it to be technically a spin-off of the DD film, but then made little to no effort to make it's continuity line up with that film (it reminds me of XMOW in that regard actually).

 

[Mike Murdock]

I hope that Frank isn't the main villain of S2. One, he's not really a "villain" per se anyway, and trying to make him into one doesn't work to be. And two, a "battle of the vigilantes" could work for a few episodes, but not a whole season imo.

I disagree. I would agree that Punisher is not a villain in his own book, but he is absolutely a villain in Daredevil. Or, more accurately, an antagonist.

I'd much prefer that they just clash over their different philosophies, but that there's an actual villain pulling the strings (Fisk, Vanessa, The Owl 2.0, whoever).

See, I don't think there's a contradiction between villain/antagonist and differing philosophies. He's not necessarily an evil character, but his goals are against the goals of Daredevil. Daredevil has to stop him just as he had to stop Fisk.

 

[The Endless]

Frank is a good guy, but his methods are those of a bad guy. The show should definitely portray Frank as having a good heart... but he's an extremist, he's like Rorschach.

 

[Mike Murdock]

He has a good heart? He thinks people who commit pretty much most crimes should not be sent to prison where they have a chance to rehabilitate themselves and contribute to society but should instead be murdered in cold blood. That's a serial killer, not someone with a good heart.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

"most crimes?" He goes after murderers, drug lords, human traffickers and other hardcore criminals. He's not gonna shotgun your ass for spitting on the sidewalk or forgetting your turn signal.*

NOT impling he has 'a good heart' necessarily, but he does have a healthy respect for the safety of civilians.

*except that one time, but he was under some sort of toxin effect.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Why is a drug dealer deserving of death? Punishment, of course. Making sure they aren't selling on the streets, maybe. But plenty of drug dealers are people who grow up in an area with no viable economic alternatives and a culture where they are the people to idolize. I'd argue their victims of a broken system, but, even if we don't agree, I'm not sure why they've reached the point where they've somehow forfeited their right to life or are somehow less than a human being.

That's my point. He rejects the notion of prisons. He rejects the possibility of rehabilitation. And, most importantly from Matt Murdock's perspective, he rejects the rule of law.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Why is a drug dealer deserving of death?

Ask Frank Castle, not me. All I did was point out that he targets those who prey on the helpless and weak. I didn't disagree with your point.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Why is a drug dealer deserving of death?

The people he goes after aren't usually *just* drug dealers. They have usually done much more evil things either in support of their business, or because they were inherently evil.

 

[Bathead]

He has a good heart? He thinks people who commit pretty much most crimes should not be sent to prison where they have a chance to rehabilitate themselves and contribute to society but should instead be murdered in cold blood. That's a serial killer, not someone with a good heart.

I would agree with that. He's not any better than the people he kills, no matter his reasons for doing so. He's just a murderer, not any kind of hero.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Daredevil v Punisher would make for an exciting season. Daredevil's trying to shut the Punisher down, all the while Castle is pointing out how much the two are alike and telling Murdock to stay out of his way. I'm excited for it. Now that all the origins and setup are out of the way from Season 1, Season 2 can hit the ground running.

 

[The Overlord]

He has a good heart? He thinks people who commit pretty much most crimes should not be sent to prison where they have a chance to rehabilitate themselves and contribute to society but should instead be murdered in cold blood. That's a serial killer, not someone with a good heart.

Have you read the Punisher Max series? Most of the guys he kills are not petty criminals who are guilty of low level robbery or drug offenses, he kills psychopathic monsters guilty of some of the worst crimes you can imagine. Here is a good list of some of the worst criminals the Punisher has faced:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/ThePunisher

In Max he fought a gangster who murdered his own family and tricked a rival crime boss into eating his own son. Frank also fought human traffickers who traded in sex slaves and raped them to break their will. Those people are not going to be rehabilitated, they are vile psychopath who will continue to victimized other people. I actually prefer those stories to stories where Punisher is merely a foil for DD or Spidey, Punisher killing evil scum bags is interesting in my opinion because it does challenge the audience. What Punisher does is clearly illegal and immoral, but put him against an evil psychopath and you might root for the Punisher despite that. Really how sympathetic Punisher is depends on who he is facing. Sure DD is more sympathetic then Frank, but Frank is more sympathetic then the criminals he fights.

I think a lot of people would would think criminals who are guilty of such heinious crimes do deserve death. That is the moral ambiguity with Punsiher, his methods are wrong, but going after such nasty criminals makes him sympathetic.

Anyway, I think while Frank is a DD antagonist when they face off, he is not Big Bad material, you need someone for Punisher and DD to fight against. Punisher likely wouldn't go out of his way to kill DD, he would be more interested in killing criminals and would want DD to help or stay out of his way. Putting Punisher and DD against the same villain, using different methods, makes for a better way to contrast their methods more then anything else would.

I would agree with that. He's not any better than the people he kills, no matter his reasons for doing so. He's just a murderer, not any kind of hero.

I would disagree with that, there is a big difference between Punisher and most of the psychos he fights. Punisher is not a boy scout, but he morally superior to a slaver or a gangster who murders his own family.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yeah I had very little sympathy for the Bulats when I read The Slavers. Seeing Castle put an end to those creeps was way more satisfying that watching him drag them before Wapner.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

so...tom holland in season 2?

 

[Matt Mortem]

Have you read the Punisher Max series? Most of the guys he kills are not petty criminals who are guilty of low level robbery or drug offenses, he kills psychopathic monsters guilty of some of the worst crimes you can imagine. Here is a good list of some of the worst criminals the Punisher has faced:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/ThePunisher

In Max he fought a gangster who murdered his own family and tricked a rival crime boss into eating his own son. Frank also fought human traffickers who traded in sex slaves and raped them to break their will. Those people are not going to be rehabilitated, they are vile psychopath who will continue to victimized other people. I actually prefer those stories to stories where Punisher is merely a foil for DD or Spidey, Punisher killing evil scum bags is interesting in my opinion because it does challenge the audience. What Punisher does is clearly illegal and immoral, but put him against an evil psychopath and you might root for the Punisher despite that. Really how sympathetic Punisher is depends on who he is facing. Sure DD is more sympathetic then Frank, but Frank is more sympathetic then the criminals he fights.

I think a lot of people would would think criminals who are guilty of such heinious crimes do deserve death. That is the moral ambiguity with Punsiher, his methods are wrong, but going after such nasty criminals makes him sympathetic.

Anyway, I think while Frank is a DD antagonist when they face off, he is not Big Bad material, you need someone for Punisher and DD to fight against. Punisher likely wouldn't go out of his way to kill DD, he would be more interested in killing criminals and would want DD to help or stay out of his way. Putting Punisher and DD against the same villain, using different methods, makes for a better way to contrast their methods more then anything else would.



I would disagree with that, there is a big difference between Punisher and most of the psychos he fights. Punisher is not a boy scout, but he morally superior to a slaver or a gangster who murders his own family.

Man the Punisher Max series was so good. Hope they take a **** load of inspiration from that.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Marco Ramirez was on EJ Scott's (Deborah Ann Woll's boyfriend) podcast. About an hour long. Talks DD and his career.

• He was hired by Drew Goddard and has been on DD since the beginning.
• He said they've been working on season 2 since March.
• Some of the same writing staff from season 1, but a lot of new writers that he couldn't announce because Marvel doesn't like that and the writers can't say what they're working on; only "developing with Marvel."
• Doug Petrie is in NY prepping the first two episodes they wrote. Ramirez basically said Petrie did a lot of uncredited directing on season 1. 2nd unit and shots here and there, a lot of what he did is in the trailers.
• Could only confirm Bernthal/Punisher, but he mentions Latino Review leaks. lol

http://www.ejscott.com/ej-podcast-078-with-marco-ramirez/


And here's an episode with Drew Goddard, but I haven't listened yet. It's massive. 2.5 hours! http://www.ejscott.com/ej-podcast-079-with-drew-goddard/

 

[Parker Wayne]

I guess the leaks were the Elektra audition videos.

 

[Sawyer]

Ermahgerd, Parker Wayne is back.