Daredevil reboot: official discussion thread - Part 2

[FVD]

I already know that Kingpin is pretty much under lock and key at Sony, but what about Ben Urich? I suppose he'd be more ideally suited to Daredevil anyway.

 

[Project862006]

anyways thinking about 70's tone wonder if they would of made kingpin a 70's irish mob crime lord which was very big back in that time period in hells kitchen

 

[cherokeesam]

You maybe? People in South Boston weren't outraged at it's depiction in The Town which stated basically that it's the bank robber capital of America, something Ben Affleck admitted he made up for the film.

Did you know New York doesn't get attacked by aliens nearly as much in real life?

Nice try. But applying fantasy situations to the real world won't ever count.

And nobody would be "outraged" by Hell's Kitchen being shown as, well, what Hell's Kitchen used to be. But New Yorkers would be amused at Hollywood still perpetuating a stereotype that's been cleaned up long ago. Even if they didn't retro it back to 1973, as Carnahan intended, a Hell's Kitchen as crime-ridden ghetto would look very dated.

 

[ironmaidenrules]

Nice try. But applying fantasy situations to the real world won't ever count.

And nobody would be "outraged" by Hell's Kitchen being shown as, well, what Hell's Kitchen used to be. But New Yorkers would be amused at Hollywood still perpetuating a stereotype that's been cleaned up long ago. Even if they didn't retro it back to 1973, as Carnahan intended, a Hell's Kitchen as crime-ridden ghetto would look very dated.

Unless kingpin is so good his crimes never make the papers. A criminal underbelly molded into the city infrastructure. Hell's kitchen is clean only because kingpin controls it.

 

[Dark Raven]

Nice try. But applying fantasy situations to the real world won't ever count.

And nobody would be "outraged" by Hell's Kitchen being shown as, well, what Hell's Kitchen used to be. But New Yorkers would be amused at Hollywood still perpetuating a stereotype that's been cleaned up long ago. Even if they didn't retro it back to 1973, as Carnahan intended, a Hell's Kitchen as crime-ridden ghetto would look very dated.

Then don't make it that it's still that way. Make it that it has become that way again in the future. New Yorkers don't laugh at the Statue of Liberty half submerged in the sand at the end of Planet of the Apes. It's a future event where things have deteriorated to that state of ruin with all the violence of mankind.

I don't think South Bronx as a new neighbourhood would work. The idea originally of putting Murdock in Hell's Kitchen wasn't just any random crime-ridden place. It was this parallel between Daredevil and Hell's Kitchen.

 

[Project862006]

what would of been cool is to have the son of sam terrorizing NY in a DD 70's film that would be interesting

 

[marcvader]

Nice try. But applying fantasy situations to the real world won't ever count.

And nobody would be "outraged" by Hell's Kitchen being shown as, well, what Hell's Kitchen used to be. But New Yorkers would be amused at Hollywood still perpetuating a stereotype that's been cleaned up long ago. Even if they didn't retro it back to 1973, as Carnahan intended, a Hell's Kitchen as crime-ridden ghetto would look very dated.

Et Tu Brute? You of the big ideas and imagination or are you just being sarcastic?

what would of been cool is to have the son of sam terrorizing NY in a DD 70's film that would be interesting

This is always what I think of when placing DD in 70's New York.

 

[ironmaidenrules]

Adding to my idea...
As DD continues his assault on crime more people start waking up and realizing their false sense of security.then after kingpin is in jail...all hell breaks loose.kingpin was the glue. Now the void is filled with "free agents" all hoping to be the next big thing

 

[The Guard]

^do you not understand what a sizzle reel pitch is?

the sizzle reel was suppose to show studio execs the tone,feel,atmosphere,era and new take he wanted to take the character

Of course I do. That may have been its intent...but it failed.

The first third of the reel is generic shots of New York and "Can you dig it? voiceover" Then generic shots of what I assume is supposed to be The Kinpin. A couple of very brief shots of violence and intimidation. More generic shots of backgrounds Some generic DD shots. More people walking. Wow, a courtroom and a gavel. More random violence, juxtaposed with voiceover about hunting someone down that almost sounds cheesy in context. More random violence. Wow, that's so...so brilliant. Beyond "Hey look, its the 70's and its violent", I don't get much of a sense of atmosphere from this reel at all. Its all over the place, and it largely relies on the existing Daredevil movie footage.

thats why it is exciting and the sizzle reel delivered what it set out to do

I don't think it did. His take is apparently "Generic Daredevil imagery and generic violence set in the 70's". Thats not terribly clever.

 

[Shifty]

I don't think you could start the film with Hell's Kitchen as a dirty crime hole in the city. More people know Hell's Kitchen is a booming part of NYC not where Daredevil fights crime. Audiences would have a hard time with it but if it was shown changing into one, how it could be done in the present day then yes they would buy it.

The Hearst Tower which was used in TASM as the Oscorp Building is in Hell's Kitchen. The Daily Show and Colbert Report's studios are in HK. The Avengers established that Stark Tower in NYC is 6 blocks away from Hell's Kitchen, he's going to allow a crime ridden neighbourhood to exist so close?

A 1970s version fits because Daredevil would be limited to the technology of the time as well as the demographics of the area. A Born Again adaptation would work best then. How easy would it be for Stark to record Kingpin doing something illegal today? Or trace all his bank accounts online?

So for a present day MCU Daredevil film...
You could have Wilson Fisk, a former crime lord of the 1970s and 1980s rich off real estate deals he made selling off half of Hell's Kitchen and then parlayed that into more money through investments as he saw the crackdown on crime coming in the 1990s. Daredevil had won, he cleaned up Hell's Kitchen and Murdock mostly practices law now.

Fisk wants revenge on his foe Daredevil from 30 years ago before he dies. An update on the Born Again story. He gets Karen Page addicted to a new drug he developed with his fortune to reveal his identity, suspecting that she might know.
With Kingpin retired, likely dead, Murdock does not suspect that his life is falling apart because of him.

With him enjoying destroying Daredevil and Matt Murdock, it brings him out of retirement and Kingpin floods Hell's Kitchen with his new drug that leads to a crime wave as people will do anything for it (prostitution, theft, murder, kidnapping, etc). Members of the NYPD and City Hall are also addicted to this drug and let Kingpin do as he wishes, as he privately delivers them the drug. Soon he has control of Manhattan. But he still knows no corpse was found in the taxi cab. So they could go the Nuke route and have Captain America show up in a big battle over Hell's Kitchen. The Avengers could destroy the drug lab on Fisk's compound in the Caribbean or wherever.

 

[MarvelKnight]

Extremely glad to see Daredevil back home!

Even if Marvel tweaks his initial idea, I would definitely go see JC's take on The Man Without Fear.

If they didn't do the whole thing in the 70s I could see the beginning of the movie taking place there. That way you can get that gritty 70s feel for a little bit, Murdock having his accident and then you could flash forward to present day (whatever the present day year for the movie would be) and go from there; assuming Marvel wants to start literally from scratch with their newly re-acquired property and tackle the origin.

 

[Destructus86]

People who live in real world NYC.

But that's real world NYC. :P
Totally different place.

 

[The Guard]

An origin element for The Kingpin could work too...have him gaining his power and things in Hell's Kitchen getting worse, neccessitating Matt to begin operating as Daredevil.

 

[marcvader]

If they make an origin flick they need to cover his training better this time around.

 

[Project862006]

Of course I do. That may have been its intent...but it failed.

The first third of the reel is generic shots of New York and "Can you dig it? voiceover" Then generic shots of what I assume is supposed to be The Kinpin. A couple of very brief shots of violence and intimidation. More generic shots of backgrounds Some generic DD shots. More people walking. Wow, a courtroom and a gavel. More random violence, juxtaposed with voiceover about hunting someone down that almost sounds cheesy in context. More random violence. Wow, that's so...so brilliant. Beyond "Hey look, its the 70's and its violent", I don't get much of a sense of atmosphere from this reel at all.Its all over the place, and it largely relies on the existing Daredevil movie footage.



I don't think it did. His take is apparently "Generic Daredevil imagery and generic violence set in the 70's". Thats not terribly clever.

how so i got him the job lol the very taxi driver tone and serpico 70's feel and the untouchables vocie over he has going is clear as day in his reel so for you to say i don't see atmosphere is kind of mind boggling

 

[TheVileOne]

The sizzle reel IMHO looked like a YouTube fan trailer and that's why I didn't care for it.

 

[MarvelKnight]

If they make an origin flick they need to cover his training better this time around.

I would like to see more of that, too.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'd tend to agree with that. Johnson said they wrote out Stick because he said it would be too much like Mr. Miyagi and Karate Kid.

 

[ironmaidenrules]

I'm curious as to what you guys think of my idea

 

[Jordacar]

If they make an origin flick they need to cover his training better this time around.

Please, no origin. Whether a TV show or another movie, a second look at the origin is the last thing DD needs. Either way, the story should hit the ground running with Daredevil already established.

 

[Dark Raven]

If it's a TV show, I would rather have the origin at the start. What I never liked about Heroes was that they went back occasionally and revisited their pasts. I got bored of those episodes, because I felt that we had already moved on past those things and didn't feel like having to sit through that. If they did it at the beginning chronologically, then I wouldn't have minded as much.

For a movie, I think they can just have a short flashback but have him start as DD already.

 

[The Overlord]

I already know that Kingpin is pretty much under lock and key at Sony, but what about Ben Urich? I suppose he'd be more ideally suited to Daredevil anyway.

If Kingpin is under "lock and key" at Sony, why couldn't Kingpin show up in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon that Sony made?

Also I think with Marvel getting the rights back, they will not make a DD movie for a very long time, with Matt being confined to cameos in other people's movies.

 

[The Guard]

how so i got him the job lol the very taxi driver tone and serpico 70's feel and the untouchables vocie over he has going is clear as day in his reel so for you to say i don't see atmosphere is kind of mind boggling

Except that it didn't get him the job...

A few clips from TAXI DRIVER and SERPICO do not a tone of either of those films make. The best you can say is that he has some parts of the reel that give it a 70's tone...that isn't terribly impressive.

 

[Morning Root]

An origin element for The Kingpin could work too...have him gaining his power and things in Hell's Kitchen getting worse, neccessitating Matt to begin operating as Daredevil.

Ooh. Such a format would create a pleasantly prominent dichotomy between good and evil. I like it.

 

[spideymouse]

If Kingpin is under "lock and key" at Sony, why couldn't Kingpin show up in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon that Sony made?

Also I think with Marvel getting the rights back, they will not make a DD movie for a very long time, with Matt being confined to cameos in other people's movies.

I just posted this in another thread, but it's possible that the Kingpin was still "on loan" to Fox during the time Spec Spidey was being developed, so they went with Tombstone.