Darthphere Presents: Chivalry is Dead. So what?

[Hound55]

I'm a big supporter of Sonny's test from A Bronx Tale...

Sonny: Alright, listen to me. You pull up right where she lives, right? Before you get outta the car, you lock both doors. Then, get outta the car, you walk over to her. You bring her over to the car. Dig out the key, put it in the lock and open the door for her. Then you let her get in. Then you close the door. Then you walk around the back of the car and look through the rear window. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in: dump her.
Calogero 'C' Anello: Just like that?
Sonny: Listen to me, kid. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in, that means she's a selfish broad and all you're seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

I only use Chivalry when I want to get laid.

 

[Bruce Banner]

I still open doors on occasion. I always end up covering the bill on dinner, even though she has been the bread winner since we started dating(I honestly can't do that every time for much longer).

 

[Hound55]

I tend to follow a reverse version of the Golden Rule.

In that I assume that however people treat me is the way that they in turn wish to be treated...

It's not a perfect system, I'll admit, but it's served me fairly well.

 

[SpideyVille]

General question, I've always struggled with holding the door in that sometimes the girl opens it first even when I intended to open it for her. So in the approach, am I supposed to just jump in front of her, like in cases where the handle is on her side (or swings open from the side that she is on) and it would be harder to reach if we were walking at the same pace side by side?

I like 'chivalry'. I like having doors opened for me, I like the tab being picked up by the guy on a date, I like having him offer to carry any shopping bags I may have. It's stuff my father has always done for my mother, it's stuff my parents trained me to do for my elders, or others in need, be they male or female. I was trained (and my brothers) that men help females, elderly and those in need. Girls help elderly and those in need. Maybe it's just that my family is old fashioned, but I never saw myself as the 'weaker' sex, or 'non-independant' because of it. I don't classify myself as 'strong' or 'independent' woman, I mean, what am I if I'm not either of those? I'm a human. I can function alone. I can function with others. I don't see the difference.

I think this is a key point, especially for most girls where I'm from. Most of the time, their parents are either split or not around for some other reason, and because of that, they don't have that example of a how a man should treat a woman. And even if they do have a father and he treats the mother poorly, then they believe that that's what a man always does to a woman.

 

[Darthphere]

I have several scenarios: If a guy asks me out I expect him to pay, it's a date. If we go as friends, I specify separate checks at the beginning of the meal when ordering or when I ask for the checks at the end of the meal. If I take a girl friend out as a treat I also end up specifying one check either at the beginning of the meal when we order (which I find is usually when the waiter/waitress checks to see if it's together or separate) or when I request the check.

You wouldn't even offer to pick up part of the tab? Honestly, like I said, I expect to pay for dinner but I've gone on dates before where I was like damn. I mean, I expect a couple of drinks to be ordered but this one girl ordered up like 5 or 6 drinks and it wasn't like they were the cheap stuff either. Also, it was unattractive to see her drink that much on a date (a topic for another thread). That's taking advantage. Of course, I've had the opposite happen and the girl would offer something and I'd be like "No, it's ok thank you." and they'd offer to pick it up next time which just was bonus points for me.

But since you brought it up, it's far more likely or expected that the man ask the woman out. You don't get a lot of woman asking out the man. But if that were the case, would the woman have to pick up the check? Honestly, I can see some woman paying for the check and thinking this dude is broke as **** and worthless.

 

[BlackLantern]

I'm a big supporter of Sonny's test from A Bronx Tale...

Sonny: Alright, listen to me. You pull up right where she lives, right? Before you get outta the car, you lock both doors. Then, get outta the car, you walk over to her. You bring her over to the car. Dig out the key, put it in the lock and open the door for her. Then you let her get in. Then you close the door. Then you walk around the back of the car and look through the rear window. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in: dump her.
Calogero 'C' Anello: Just like that?
Sonny: Listen to me, kid. If she doesn't reach over and lift up that button so that you can get in, that means she's a selfish broad and all you're seeing is the tip of the iceberg. You dump her and you dump her fast.

cars have power locks now.....this whole thing is invalid

 

[Anubis]

Not really.

The passenger side usually has an auto lock button. If you close the door behind her, the door might lock on it's own. (Lets say it does.) If she doesn't push the button, then it still applies.

 

[BlackLantern]

maybe she'll think you're a ****** for locking the door when you're standing right there

 

[Prison Mike]

This whole thing reminds me of last week's episode of How I Met Your Mother where Ted was on a date and the one woman reached for the check. Ted was instantly smittened! LOL

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, but she's going out with a ******, so what does that say about her?

 

[SpideyVille]

I think in regards to the dinner check thing, I think its almost expected that the man pays, but it's also common courtesy that there be that playful "struggle" so that the man can insist on paying. It's kinda like when you and friends are sharing a pizza pie and the last slice is there, its common courtesy to at least offer or refuse the last slice instead of just picking it up first as if no one would notice.

But I was in a situation once where I wanted to take a girl that I liked out to the movies since I wanted to talk to her after it seemed like she was avoiding me for a while. She told me she couldn't go because she didn't have money, but I told her I'd pay, which I could barely afford to but was willing to sacrifice for her. But after she told me she'd meet me at the theatre as opposed to going together, I decided I was going to tell her I couldn't afford it afterwards. So instead, we went for a walk and eventually she stopped at a pizza shop, pulled out a $20 and bought herself a slice. At that point, I was glad I didn't buy her movie ticket.

 

[Anubis]

F**k that, whoever finishes first gets the last slice. You want? You gotta beat me to it.

 

[twylight]

You wouldn't even offer to pick up part of the tab? Honestly, like I said, I expect to pay for dinner but I've gone on dates before where I was like damn. I mean, I expect a couple of drinks to be ordered but this one girl ordered up like 5 or 6 drinks and it wasn't like they were the cheap stuff either. Also, it was unattractive to see her drink that much on a date (a topic for another thread). That's taking advantage. Of course, I've had the opposite happen and the girl would offer something and I'd be like "No, it's ok thank you." and they'd offer to pick it up next time which just was bonus points for me.

But since you brought it up, it's far more likely or expected that the man ask the woman out. You don't get a lot of woman asking out the man. But if that were the case, would the woman have to pick up the check? Honestly, I can see some woman paying for the check and thinking this dude is broke as **** and worthless.

I linked this thread to Scarlet Spidey last night and he told me I was very 'traditional'

I guess that's the difference. I am traditional so it goes both ways. I took a 'ladies manners' class in Jr. High, and one of the 'dating' things we were taught is to never order the most expensive thing, nor the cheapest. But moderately priced based on the restaurant he takes you to and his economic background and to always order water. Because that shows manners on my side, without hindering, or burdening his.

So, example, Chili's: price range would be $10-13 or $9-12 dollars (haven't been out to eat in forever so I'm taking a wild guess here, just figure the most expensive meals top out at like $22 with the lowest being... $6 or $7)

Drinks aren't ordered because that just isn't done, because it's dinner. Unless he specified taking you out for cocktails/to the bar in which case I'd pay for my own drink even if we were on a date. Holy frick I'm realizing I have a lot of stipulations.

Now that all my weird 'traditional' stuff is out of the way. I am somewhat 'progressive'. I don't expect him to pay for every date after the first one. Because after the first one, if he asked me, then the 'dating' would be somewhat mutual in my eyes. In which case I'd offer/ask to split the bill, and either let him counter or not. However, I can't fathom picking up the tab for both of us unless I asked him out, or we were in a serious relationship. So to answer your last question: the instigator of the first date is expected to pay, male or female. But that's my opinion.

 

[Hound55]

F**k that, whoever finishes first gets the last slice. You want? You gotta beat me to it.

Agreed.

I'm still undefeated...

 

[Darthphere]

I linked this thread to Scarlet Spidey last night and he told me I was very 'traditional'

I guess that's the difference. I am traditional so it goes both ways. I took a 'ladies manners' class in Jr. High, and one of the 'dating' things we were taught is to never order the most expensive thing, nor the cheapest. But moderately priced based on the restaurant he takes you to and his economic background and to always order water. Because that shows manners on my side, without hindering, or burdening his.

So, example, Chili's: price range would be $10-13 or $9-12 dollars (haven't been out to eat in forever so I'm taking a wild guess here, just figure the most expensive meals top out at like $22 with the lowest being... $6 or $7)

Drinks aren't ordered because that just isn't done, because it's dinner. Unless he specified taking you out for cocktails/to the bar in which case I'd pay for my own drink even if we were on a date. Holy frick I'm realizing I have a lot of stipulations.

Now that all my weird 'traditional' stuff is out of the way. I am somewhat 'progressive'. I don't expect him to pay for every date after the first one. Because after the first one, if he asked me, then the 'dating' would be somewhat mutual in my eyes. In which case I'd offer/ask to split the bill, and either let him counter or not. However, I can't fathom picking up the tab for both of us unless I asked him out, or we were in a serious relationship. So to answer your last question: the instigator of the first date is expected to pay, male or female. But that's my opinion.

Amazing, you fell into my trap. Now I know how to deal with you when I finally get around to asking you out.

 

[SpideyVille]

I linked this thread to Scarlet Spidey last night and he told me I was very 'traditional'

I guess that's the difference. I am traditional so it goes both ways. I took a 'ladies manners' class in Jr. High, and one of the 'dating' things we were taught is to never order the most expensive thing, nor the cheapest. But moderately priced based on the restaurant he takes you to and his economic background and to always order water. Because that shows manners on my side, without hindering, or burdening his.

So, example, Chili's: price range would be $10-13 or $9-12 dollars (haven't been out to eat in forever so I'm taking a wild guess here, just figure the most expensive meals top out at like $22 with the lowest being... $6 or $7)

Drinks aren't ordered because that just isn't done, because it's dinner. Unless he specified taking you out for cocktails/to the bar in which case I'd pay for my own drink even if we were on a date. Holy frick I'm realizing I have a lot of stipulations.

Now that all my weird 'traditional' stuff is out of the way. I am somewhat 'progressive'. I don't expect him to pay for every date after the first one. Because after the first one, if he asked me, then the 'dating' would be somewhat mutual in my eyes. In which case I'd offer/ask to split the bill, and either let him counter or not. However, I can't fathom picking up the tab for both of us unless I asked him out, or we were in a serious relationship. So to answer your last question: the instigator of the first date is expected to pay, male or female. But that's my opinion.

You are definitely a rarity in today's world.

 

[twylight]

Amazing, you fell into my trap. Now I know how to deal with you when I finally get around to asking you out.

And you into mine. Now I know to expect it and say 'No'

You are definitely a rarity in today's world.

... If I had a penny...

 

[Shlee]

twylight's not the only one who orders moderately and only water or maybe a soda when she's asked out on a date by a guy. :P

And I'm a bit more progressive; I always offer to pay my half. I've had quite a few men, even if we're not on a date, not let me pay for my dinner or anything before. I think part of that has been that I do offer to pay my half and share.

As far as chivalry and "independent" women... I think there's a huge double standard. "I don't need anyone taking care of me, but I expect the man to always pay and I expect him to hold open the door for me and do this/that/the other thing". My mom's a pretty feminist woman and she even has these double standards most of the time; it's super irritating.

I personally hold doors for people, regardless of gender. Lots of men, however, tend to wait for me to walk through the door and hold it for me after I've opened it, and I always think that's nice and respectful.

I know I'm babbling, but part of this is a respect issue, and I personally think it's a two-way street. If I expect you to pay for dinner for me, I'm not going to order anything extravagant (although I tend not to expect anyone to pay for me, I ALWAYS expect to pay for myself because I'm a proud person and I generally dislike people buying things for me or paying for me). But if you expect me to behave a certain way or whatever, you need to treat me respectfully too. If you want me to offer to pay for my meal, it's nice and polite of you to hold open the door for me or help me with my chair, etc. And I'm not going to text through dinner out of courtesy for you. It's a mutual thing.

 

[bullets]

I cant post the video here, but look up JennaMarbles on youtube. Her video Girls That Piss Me Off sums my feelings up pretty well.

I just looked her up and fell in love. She's absolutely right. I want to pay for everything but if the girl has no values , I won't waste my time.

 

[The Squirrel]

I've had girls scold me for not opening doors, even if they got there first, so... who really knows anymore.

 

[Darthphere]

It's almost like we're put in a no win situation.

 

[bullets]

I've had girls scold me for not opening doors, even if they got there first, so... who really knows anymore.

I always hold the door open , this one time a chick gave me a dirty look and went through another door. I was actually with my gf and had no interest in here. She was just stuck up and rude .

The girl you dealt with is delusional. If a girl makes it to the door before me she usually holds it open. I see it as more of a friendly gesture than chivalry.

 

[Darthphere]

Opening doors also opens you up for the herd effect where there's 12 doors but everyone wants to walk through the one you're holding open and you end up just standing there like a fool as 20 people go through without thanking you.

 

[SpideyVille]

Opening doors also opens you up for the herd effect where there's 12 doors but everyone wants to walk through the one you're holding open and you end up just standing there like a fool as 20 people go through without thanking you.

Very true, although it also depends on what kind of door it is and how you open it. If it's a PUSH door, I'll hold it for the next person and then move on, but a PULL door can be tricky if you stand on the outside to hold it.