David Poland says "Disney might kill Thor."

[Chewy]

Disney might kill the Thor movie. And cancel his ongoing comic. And stop development on his animated series.

Or they might, you know, not

 

[Marvin]

$150 million is no small change. I think they should be able to make a good Thor movie with that.

I'm inclined to think that depends on weather they're making a epic gritty film(ala 13th Warrior) or a cgi laden fantasy

that being said, I'm sure they could pull this off for even less
[YT]7rnTpR4M1ZI[/YT]

this is disney after all
still can't believe that's vincent D

 

[Evil Twin]

It's not even "unconfirmed rumor". It's not a "rumor" anymore than me going on the Captain America casting thread and saying Philip Seymour Hoffman should play Cap makes that a rumor. Like I said, "worst case scenario conjecture" sounds more appropriate.

Dave Poland has some credibility as a reporter. That makes it more relevant than a random post on a message board. Although reading through his website, I do think it's fair to say that it's more conjecture than rumor in this specific instance, it wouldn't exactly be surprising if he's heard something specific that raised that conjecture in the first place.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Dave Poland has some credibility as a reporter. That makes it more relevant than a random post on a message board. Although reading through his website, I do think it's fair to say that it's more conjecture than rumor in this specific instance, it wouldn't exactly be surprising if he's heard something specific that raised that conjecture in the first place.

Going by Chewy's report on the guy, it's probably based on him gleefully rubbing his hands together at the thought of the superhero bubble bursting more than anything else.

 

[Chewy]

If you haven't encountered Poland before, here's his Incredible Hulk review. A fun read if you understand going into it how much this guy HATES comic book fans.

As I sat through the amazingly indulged mediocrity that it The Incredible Hulk - and no, it's not like Iron Man where I was looking at the same ingredients and expressing different taste... this film is not even close to the quality of that other overrated summer Marvel - what suddenly struck me was...

Irwin Allen.

Producer of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost In Space, Land of The Giants, The Poseidon Adventure, and The Towering Inferno and inspiration for spectacular crap from Earthquake to Rollercoaster.

What struck me is that I need to buy some Marvel stock, because they are, indeed, about to go on a 2 or 3 year run of producing mediocre crap that appeals to a certain audience in much the same way Irwin Allen's stuff appealed to me. It was junk... but it was my junk. And really, there is nothing wrong with that, so long as you don't try to tell me that it's actually skilled work or remotely interesting in any way deeper than the first millionth of an inch of Giant Dill Pickle Man's skin.

The Incredible Hulk suddenly lit me up with the long line of how we got here… horrible movie after horrible movie doing over $100 million… from Daredevil to Fantastic Four to Ghost Rider to Iron Man to this… bad directors, talent having fallen from grace, lots of fake looking CG, and a solid core of ticket buyers.

Here’s another part of the phenomenon… the bigger suit.

Since Marvel took over their own productions, we are now 2-for-2 with first stories that include the hallmark of the first sequel… The Bigger Suit. Iron Man fought one. Hulk fights one. I sense a theme in development.

And this idea of stringing all the characters together, bit by bit. Genius.

Warner Bros has to step away from the bank vault and come to understand… no one in this demo much cares about whether the movie is actually good. Stop spending $200 million chasing ghosts of past successes. They want the pieces of film they are waiting for - the insider nods, the big fight, the overblown score - and they will not only come, but they will claim the work is GREAT.

The truth is, for all its flaws, there is not a single frame of The Incredible Hulk that contains a fragment of the artistry that Ang Lee brought to Hulk. Of course, the film was too long and the psychodrama too thick for most people. But there was true aesthetic beauty.

None here.

I hate to even pull this one out of the backpack, but Speed Racer? Genius in comparison. Every frame.

And Hellboy II is on the way. Can you imagine? Even if, somehow, there is a story problem, the magic of del Toro’s work… the f-ing trailer is more powerful than the entirety of TIH, squared.

And from the early look at Wall-E… neither Marvel entry even begins to aspire to a sliver of the magic that Pixar is chasing there.

Still, if the audience wants it, how can we be angry at it being handed to them? They wanted a Hulk movie where Hulk smashed and spoke words and destroyed two college campuses and New York City. Woo hoo!!!

It’s crap! I tell you. It’s crap!

But if you love crap – and I certainly have in my life – it’s what you might well want as you wait for the better movies of this summer to come.

And in a few years, Marvel will make the equivalent of The Swarm and this trend will be over. In the meanwhile, the stock price will soar!

So… how far can we be from Sensaround coming back?

EDIT: wrong link, sorry
http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotblog/archives/2008/06/marvel_at_a_new.html

 

[FaT_tONle]

I don't have any problems with that review. Not in terms of agreeing with all of it, but if he wants to take that stance let him take that stance. In the interview on G4 he is pretty objective. Disney does have the option of killing all of this. He does poke fun at the fans but who doesn't? It's nothing new for fanboys. But I agree with the premise, that a select few films bring a certain art form to the table, whereas Marvel has just failed to do so. I honestly believe that. I hope Branagh changes that. Joe Johnston's Cap? Wouldn't bet a dime on it. But anyhow, back on topic.

 

[BestGirl]

It's not even "unconfirmed rumor". It's not a "rumor" anymore than me going on the Captain America casting thread and saying Philip Seymour Hoffman should play Cap makes that a rumor. Like I said, "worst case scenario conjecture" sounds more appropriate.

I believe this is true and that's a relief. I really want to see Thor happen.

$150 million is no small change. I think they should be able to make a good Thor movie with that.

Who's that in your avatar?

 

[Timstuff]

Disney is actually very enthusiastic about the Thor franchise. In fact, they even put together a trailer for a new Thor TV series that will be airing on ABC Family Channel next fall (2010):

 

[Canis Sapiens]

t: Awesome. And that soundtrack is hilarious.

 

[topdog1]

Well, I don't think the debt was the issue, as much as how much debt Marvel could get into at once.

I don't know what the budget is for IM2, but something around $200 million sounds probable to me. Toss in another $150 million apiece for Thor and Captain America, if they want to get shooting early to maintain a realistic 2011 schedule, and Marvel could have outstanding loans of $500 million with no money coming in until May 2010. I'm sure the interest would not be insignificant on that amount. The interest might have been so significant that there was little chance Marvel would make any money except on the most massive of hits.

And the consequences of one of their films flopping would be astronomical.

I'd say that the Disney buyout represents a massive safety net. In the long run they probably will sacrifice some independence. And the schedule probably won't be as aggressive. But, there's also about 0% probability of the whole thing crashing and burning as well.

Merging with Disney does represent a massive safety net.

What I want to know is if the Merrill Lynch financing will stay in place? Will Marvel operate separately and use the established battle plan anyway? Paying the percentage on the loans seems dumb given Disney's deep pockets but the POTC question is a valid one. It's a unique situation because Marvel has their own studio complex and personal in place. Disney may just want to be overlord but not actively involved. Make the film and then turn over profits to the parent company. Make the film using the existing Merrill Lynch funds and business model.

This is all so confusing.

One thing is for sure, David Poland is an uniformed putz.

Only MVL is required to divest assets, if necessary and with DIS permission, to gain regulatory approval. So, we may all get a look at Marvel's true financial books when they file for regulatory approval.

 

[FaT_tONle]

If the loan was around 500 million per say, IM was 160, more like 180. Hulk was 150. IM2 was 200. That money is gone. Marvel probably covered most of it anyhow with their profits on IM/TIH. Disney will probably cover the rest. So I doubt Disney has been a huge financial player thus far besides the complete buyout of course.

 

[Webhead2006]

Yup that guy does seem like a big ASS i dont see anything to worry about from thor/cap/etc.... films left in marvel studios paramount deal. I do want to hear what the marvel comics heads have to say, what thor/cap/ironman directors have to say, and then kevin F has to say about the whole disney thing.

 

[yoshimura]

I says "Thor might kill David Poland."

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Who's that in your avatar?

Ethan Marr, a character in the game Heavy Rain.

 

[Venom'sDad]

If the loan was around 500 million per say, IM was 160, more like 180. Hulk was 150. IM2 was 200. That money is gone. Marvel probably covered most of it anyhow with their profits on IM/TIH. Disney will probably cover the rest. So I doubt Disney has been a huge financial player thus far besides the complete buyout of course.

I get what you are saying; but that's not all the money they have made. Fast-food tie-ins, school supplies and clothing, DVD/BluRay sales, toys, etc.

 

[Chewy]

Here's what Poland wrote on his blog. This makes it clear that, as suspected, he's merely speculating.

I'm also not clear on why he thinks Disney would be willing to spend $200M on IM3 and would not be willing to spend $200M on Avengers, given that Avengers could be sold as essentially an IM3 to general audiences. But that's David Poland for you

This is not that complicated.

Disney will now own Marvel, which in spite of what some have spun, have so far been the hands-on manager of just one franchise-level hit (Iron Man). The idea that Disney will treat it with the respect it treats Pixar’s relentless money/genius machine is absurd on its face.

A big part of the Marvel deal is that they have been funding their movies under current management. Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, and Thor… which is still 5 or 6 months from production.

Let’s assume that Iron Man 2 makes good money. Great. But if Thor, an untested character, performs like The Incredible Hulk, it will lose money, like The Incredible Hulk lost money.

It’s hard to do any of these movies for $125 million, much less under that figure.

Could Thor, in pre-production, be a turnaround waiting to happen? Probably not.

But what does Disney do, regardless of whether Paramount has a distribution deal for - after the presumed next two releases - three more Marvel movies if Thor is a money loser?

Well… one film will be Iron Man 3. Easy enough.

Do I smell a mostly live-action Nick Fury film with Sam Jackson and an $80 million budget?

Or is that Jerry Bruckheimer doing a $180 million Nick Fury, trying to stabilize the potential for Avengers with something more than Robert Downey, Jr.’s smirk?

What I don’t smell so much, unless Thor gets made and makes $400 million worldwide or more or Disney gives it all to Bruckheimer, who is the only producer other than Pixar they have allowed these kinds of budgets without a partner (see: Anschutz), is a $200 million-plus Avengers movie.
Hell, I’m still choking on G-Force being made for what is apparently over $150 million. WHAT?!?!!? Bruckheimer… that’s what.

I’m not saying that the fanboys have to go nutso crazy and start petition drives right now. But you have to expect that a business that wasn’t working well enough to stand on its own – at least not with a $4 billion valuation – to be set loose to spend hundreds of millions (production only) on a couple of films a year. That’s not going to happen.

SOURCE

 

[BestGirl]

Ethan Marr, a character in the game Heavy Rain.

Thank you.

 

[Canis Sapiens]

Now here's an interesting read about the Disney/Marvel deal. Not exclusively Thor related, but very interesting... the first and last sentences in the article made me feel very optimistic.

EXCLUSIVE: The first thing you should know is that Bob Iger has comic books in his blood. And the second thing you should know is that his ties to Marvel go back two generations. His late great-uncle (his grandfather's brother) was illustrator/cartoonist Jerry Iger, who partnered with illustrator/cartoonist Will Eisner back in the 1930s to create -- you guessed it -- the comic book packager Eisner & Iger Studios. I couldn't make up this stuff if I tried... (Blackthorne Publishing has released three compilations of Jerry Iger-related comics: The Iger Comics Kingdom, Jerry Iger's Classic Jumbo Comics, Jerry Iger's Classic National Comics, and Jerry Iger's Golden Features. Will Eisner is no relation to Michael Eisner.) iger 2mouse smallAnd their first hire was Jack Kirby, who as you know later became the co-creator of many of Marvel's best known characters with Stan Lee. So Bob Iger had an unusually rich appreciation for the comic book biz dating back to his childhood when his great-uncle would draw for him. Fast forward to Monday's Disney-Marvel deal, which I've learned was 10 years in conception, and three months in negotiation between Iger and Ike Perlmutter for the 7,000 Marvel characters -- that's right, 7,000, not the 5,000 number every media outlet keeps reporting including me.

I'm told that, back in the 1990s, when Michael Eisner ran Disney and Bob Iger was his No. 2 (a teaming I liked to call FrankenEisner and Igor back then), the moguls had on-again, off-again coversations about acquiring Marvel. But there was never any attempt at a negotiation because "the brand didn't seem Disney," as a source tells me. Once Iger took over Disney as CEO, and recently embarked on its stock buyback, the Big Media company found itself sitting on excess cash even after investing in Pixar and everything else. That's when the troika of Iger, Tom Staggs, Sr EVP/CFO, and Kevin Mayer, EVP of Corporate Strategy, Business Development and Technology Group, stepped up their look for growth opportunities. And Marvel came up again, this time much more seriously. Iger even discussed this directly with his division heads. It's a testament to Disney's limitless penchant for secrecy that even though about a dozen people knew Disney had decided to go after Marvel, there was no leak.

In June, Iger flew to New York to meet with CEO Ike Perlmutter in his Marvel office. In a show of transparency, Iger had already let the wily but no-nonsense Israeli (who'd beaten back two billionaires, Ron Perelman and Carl Icahn, for control of Marvel) know that Disney was interested in buying Marvel and wanted to start negotiating. ("It would have been manipulative if I'd approached it any other way," Iger told a pal. "You know how that goes. Someone invites you for dinner. And, after a glass of wine, he tells you he wants to buy you. And the wine never tastes quite as good after that.")

But Perlmutter expressed little interest in a deal, even though he liked Disney and all that the name, company, branding, implied. "I've heard good things about Disney. But I don't need to sell. I don't want to sell," Perlmutter told Iger, according to my insiders. But, eventually, Iger got to the heart of Perlmutter's objection: Ike didn't want to retire. He wanted to continue to work because Marvel was what he loved.

As due diligence went on, Disney saw nothing in Marvel's books that indicated Marvel was under financial pressure or Perlmutter had any need to sell. So the price had to be right. From June to Sunday night, both sides eventually became "more comfortable" with the $4 billion valuation, according to my insiders. A little math shows that Perlmutter, who owns 37% of his public company, stands to reap $1.5 billion in cash and stock. Sources tell me that this sell-out has been Perlmutter's strategy all along. "This was always an acquisition play for Ike," one insider explains to me. "This deal with Disney just ups his game and creates shareholder value and lets him walk away a billionaire."

Content-wise, the two moguls agreed that Marvel would continue to operate independently of the notoriously micro-managing Disney in the same way that Miramax did under the Weinstein Brothers. Though that probably won't make even hardcore fanboys feel better about the deal they're pissing on all over the Internet yesterday and today. (Given what Iger likes to refer to as the "combustion of digital word of mouth" that operates these days, Iger and Perlmutter have their work cut out for them trying to get skeptical fanboys to believe that Disney has no intention of altering the creative approach which Marvel takes to its comic books and movies. Of course, it helps the corporate confluence between the two companies that Marvel's movie fare has been and will be "PG-13".)

Every subsequent meeting between Iger and Perlmutter took place in NY. Finally, it was late Sunday night, very late, that the deal was done. There was no celebration. Both moguls went back to their respective homes to get ready for Monday's early morning announcement.

One more thing you should know: I've learned that, for the past 2 months, Iger has been reading the new Marvel Encyclopedia to soak up the backstories of all the Marvel characters and comics.

Source: http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/behind-the-scenes-of-disney-marvel-deal/

 

[yoshimura]

Wow, David poland is an idiot.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Wow, David poland is an idiot.

I really don't think it's that far off saying if Thor does TIH numbers the Avengers movie could be in jeapordy. They are already going to have to scamper their asses off to meet that 2012 release date, but say there are delays and they postpone Avengers until after IM3 or just any problems with the production, maybe they will hold off on Avengers until the numbers for Thor come in. Now there is a possibility that if IM2 does a 450/400 split, Avengers is fast tracked no matter what. We'll see.

 

[KangConquers]

I'm really worried about Thor. Thor and Cap are the two movies that most interest me on Marvel's slate.

 

[TheVileOne]

Iger having a relative that worked in comics doesn't necessarily make me trust Iger more.

 

[KangConquers]

I really don't think it's that far off saying if Thor does TIH numbers the Avengers movie could be in jeapordy. They are already going to have to scamper their asses off to meet that 2012 release date, but say there are delays and they postpone Avengers until after IM3 or any problems with the production, maybe they will hold off on Avengers until the numbers for Thor come in. Now there is a possibility that if IM2 does a 450/400 split, Avengers is fast tracked no matter what. We'll see.

Just curious, what are your predicted box office figures for Cap and Thor?

 

[Chewy]

I wouldn't be too concerned about Thor. Disney funded a live-action Prince of Persia, Thor isn't too far off or any riskier of a prospect. And unlike Iron Man, whose forseeable sequels (IM2, IM3, Avengers) all come with paychecks to Paramount attached, if the Thor movie hits and hits big Disney could have their very own superhero franchise all to themselves. Which was obviously one of the goals of the purchase in the first place.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Iger having a relative that worked in comics doesn't necessarily make me trust Iger more.

I don't trust anyone in business, really, since I don't pretend to actually know any of them. But it is nice to hear that the new owner of Marvel is taking an interest in the characters.