DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 9

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]377574[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]371781[/split]

 

[Watchman]

Miller's Batman, and pretty much any of his work work dealing with politics pre-9/11, is 100% libertarian. Now, it's just bat**** crazy war hawk. He's come to represent his DKSA Batman.

Never thought of Morrison's Batman as an extension of Miller since he has a whole graphic novel trying to rid Batman of Miller's more unsavory traits(Not that I'm saying that libertarianism is a bad thing). But it definitely fits, he is a super capitalist with a privatized, worldwide police force.

Anyway, Preview of the Second Wave.

My threat still stands, if you don't buy Dial H I will punt a kitten.

 

[Mystirious]

To protect the kittens I promise to buy Dial H for Hero when it comes out Watchman

 

[Watchman]

Don't worry...I don't think I have the heart for it. Sensing that the kittens will turn on me and scratch my eyes out. But Dial H has Chimney Boy, the character find of 2012. So buy it and give it a longer life than OMAC.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I've already pre-ordered my copy of Dial H so the kittens are safe.

 

[jonathancrane]

I wrote a long argument on the politics of Miller and the industry, but the thread closed, and I lost it. Grr. Here is the condensed version of what I wrote.

-The reading of the politics in Miller's work outside of Holy Terror and 300 is arbitrary. Those two works were written as propaganda and are acknowledged as such; I am not even remotely convinced of the so-called "right wing" agenda in his early Batman work, especially since he satirized Reagan and ripped the good-boy system in law enforcement a new one in Year One. If anything, I have found those pieces to be liberal.

-Holy Terror and 300 were written as propaganda; they are no different than the early Captain America comics. If we are going to call them "detrimental," then we have to jettison the original run on Captain America as its values are dangerous well (racism on the forefront.) But, Miller acknowledged Cap's original series when promoting Holy Terror. Does that make it acceptable? No, but, there's a danger in jumping on one author, and ignoring their precursors and successors.

-At the end of the day, Frank Miller hates everybody. After all, he's entitled to his own opinion. His remarks on OWS, while extreme, were accurate, as the number of sexual assaults and violent incidents from the movement are quite disquieting. Also, his assessment of the values of radical Islam (which mirror those of Medieval Christianity,) are accurate, even though he makes the mistake of condemning the entire religious system for it...kind of how Christians are condemned because of the Evangelists and Catholic Church (it's something I have had to deal with for the past four years.)

-Also, comics should not deal with period-exclusive domestic and foreign policy concerns. The rule from Inception - using details, not truth wholesale - works for the medium (kind of how the Superhero Registration Act was a partial commentary on American society's treatment of pedophiles, among many other concerns such as our embrace of vigilantism.) If anything, the comics should celebrate universal values such as love (all types,) friendship, and hope.

........after all, when I read comics, I do not want to read/watch Superman and Batman fighting over Obamacare. In fact, when I read comics, I want to escape this rudderless world (that has been and is under the sway of evil,) for 5-10 minutes. I want to read/watch today's gods fight the cosmic struggle for our souls. If politics are to be used, they should be depicted with ambiguity, as in V for Vendetta. After all, the piece has a wisdom - V is a sketch, allowing the reader's to shade him/her as they will - even though in real life, Moore embraces anarchists, who are detrimental to society.

In short, current events should be used to season the piece, instead of as a dish.

 

[Watchman]

Miller hates the establishment. Whether it's right wing, left wing. It doesn't matter, his heroes are outlaws opposing the corrupt establishment, see Martha Washington. I'm seeing more connections with Morrison's Batman and his work in general. The difference is that his heroes are likable people and not grim *****....or crazy bigots.

I've already pre-ordered my copy of Dial H so the kittens are safe.

Good man

Sprinkles is safe...for now.

 

[CConn]

Millar hates the establishment, but he sure does love ****es.

I will also buy Dial H. And I'm even going to buy it at its full cover price for the first month.

 

[hippie_hunter]

-The reading of the politics in Miller's work outside of Holy Terror and 300 is arbitrary. Those two works were written as propaganda and are acknowledged as such; I am not even remotely convinced of the so-called "right wing" agenda in his early Batman work, especially since he satirized Reagan and ripped the good-boy system in law enforcement a new one in Year One. If anything, I have found those pieces to be liberal.

You are aware that there is plenty of right winged criticism of the police and Ronald Reagan.

........after all, when I read comics, I do not want to read/watch Superman and Batman fighting over Obamacare.

I don't want to see that either, but giving Batman and Superman some political background fleshes their characters out pretty well. It's not about policy, but more along the line of ideology. You're not going to see Batman and Superman do things like support or oppose Obamacare, the war in Afghanistan, or government subsidies to green energy firms. But it's more along the line of Clark Kent being the champion of the lower class working man while Bruce Wayne is John Galt meets Clint Eastwood.

And I like seeing political diversity as well. Hence why I love that Grant Morrison have essentially made Batman and Superman political opposites.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

You know, the thing is that there are multiple political ideologies lumped under "left" and "right" and they can be very different. So technically an ultra-libertarian (and that is what Frank Miller is) is quite right-wing from most perspective and so is a fascist dictator or religious nutjob, although in the end they do not have much in common.

 

[Czar Colossus]

I know I stated earlier that I saw Superman as a centrist; perhaps he's more correctly categorized as a populist, which would put his values in stark contrast with our current statist leader.

 

[Anubis]

I think he's a Rutabaga.

 

[Kurosawa]

You know, the thing is that there are multiple political ideologies lumped under "left" and "right" and they can be very different. So technically an ultra-libertarian (and that is what Frank Miller is) is quite right-wing from most perspective and so is a fascist dictator or religious nutjob, although in the end they do not have much in common.

Even within a pretty niche political belief like Objectivism, you can see great variety in opinions-contrast Miller's harsh dislike of the state with Ditko's belief that superheroes should not replace or do the job of the US Military, for example, or Miller's deconstruction of heroes contrasted with Ditko's comment:
"Heroes don't have flaws. Heroes are heroes."

 

[Mystirious]

Miller hates the establishment. Whether it's right wing, left wing. It doesn't matter, his heroes are outlaws opposing the corrupt establishment, see Martha Washington. I'm seeing more connections with Morrison's Batman and his work in general. The difference is that his heroes are likable people and not grim *****....or crazy bigots.

Morrison is definitely a much better writer I think. I'm re-reading Invisibles at the moment and it be fabulous

Good man

Sprinkles is safe...for now.

I think he's a Rutabaga.

That totally should have been his new origin in Action Comics

Don't worry...I don't think I have the heart for it. Sensing that the kittens will turn on me and scratch my eyes out. But Dial H has Chimney Boy, the character find of 2012. So buy it and give it a longer life than OMAC.

If Chimney Boy doesn't get a live action movie I'mma be

 

[hippie_hunter]

You know, the thing is that there are multiple political ideologies lumped under "left" and "right" and they can be very different. So technically an ultra-libertarian (and that is what Frank Miller is) is quite right-wing from most perspective and so is a fascist dictator or religious nutjob, although in the end they do not have much in common.

Exactly!

 

[Mystirious]

So what is a libertarian exactly hippie_hunter?

 

[Cain]

You know, the thing is that there are multiple political ideologies lumped under "left" and "right" and they can be very different. So technically an ultra-libertarian (and that is what Frank Miller is) is quite right-wing from most perspective and so is a fascist dictator or religious nutjob, although in the end they do not have much in common.

Very true.

 

[Anubis]

So what is a libertarian exactly hippie_hunter?

A person who hates paying taxes and wants to sell whatever they can get money for.

 

[Mystirious]

The more you know

 

[hippie_hunter]

So what is a libertarian exactly hippie_hunter?

Libertarians are right wingers who advocate for as little government as possible in both economic and social affairs with a heavy emphasis on liberty, freedom, and voluntary association.

 

[Mystirious]

They sound a lot more sane and tolerant than some of the bigoted psycho right wingers out there

 

[hippie_hunter]

They sound a lot more sane and tolerant than some of the bigoted psycho right wingers out there

That's because they are. Libertarians typically don't give a damn about things such as race, sexuality, gender, etc. It's your own damn business.

 

[Mystirious]

They sound pretty good to me

 

[Mystirious]

They sound pretty good to me