DCEU Audience....who is it? And who should it be?

[Jochimus]

End result is, to quote a cliche, Superman movies for people who don't like Superman.

This seems to be a prevailing manner in Hollywood in general.

 

[MadVillainy]

The DCEU definitely isn't for very young kids, but that's why shows like DC Super Hero Girls and Teen Titans Go exist.

And that's a really stupid decision when they try to market the movie by making children's book and kids toys. They clearly want kids to like these movies

You can make a serious movie that kids, just by seeing their favorite characters on screen, can still enjoy

 

[writer0327]

When you discuss the films with hardcore DC fans, they believe the films are made with them in mind, which I tend to agree. I think DC is interested in some of the deeper themes found in the comics and at the same time making a film that resonates with audiences worldwide. I agree with those that think they don't trust their characters however.

I also don't think they trust the general audience to enjoy the actual material from the comics, in fact I always hear comments like "DC is too deep for the average movie goer who prefers Marvel's popcorn crowd pleasers. Therefore in my opinion, DC is simply trying to appeal to "whoever liked the Dark Knight", which isn't a bad strategy, but don't know how to do it, what they want to do with these characters, and they certainly don't make the right film for the right audience.

 

[writer0327]

And that's a really stupid decision when they try to market the movie by making children's book and kids toys. They clearly want kids to like these movies

You can make a serious movie that kids, just by seeing their favorite characters on screen, can still enjoy

I agree that kids should certainly be in your demographic when making a comic book film, but what kids?

3-5, 6-10, 11-14? I think targeting the young adults is probably the way to go, but you can't go "Hunger Games" and make murder a plot point.

 

[MadVillainy]

I agree that kids should certainly be in your demographic when making a comic book film, but what kids?

3-5, 6-10, 11-14? I think targeting the young adults is probably the way to go, but you can't go "Hunger Games" and make murder a plot point.

Kids of all ages.

And you can do that without making it like the Marvel movies.

 

[Frodo]

At this point, I think the DCU live action films, i.e., the Snyderverse seems to be skewed far more to diehard DC comics fans who are mostly male and older meaning 20s through 40s .

The DCU should appeal to a much broader range including families, kids, women, those non diehard comic book fans and non comicbook fans.

 

[writer0327]

At this point, I think the DCU live action films, i.e., the Snyderverse seems to be skewed far more to diehard DC comics fans who are mostly male and older meaning 20s through 40s .

The DCU should appeal to a much broader range including families, kids, women, those non diehard comic book fans and non comicbook fans.

I think it's pretty obvious. I don't think they are aiming for the general movie goer at all. They are aiming towards comic fans first and foremost.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

The audience they *should* be making movies for is "everyone", since that's the audience any blockbuster needs to draw. Sadly, Snyder seems to largely be making movies for himself, which results in movies that appeal to the "90s grim and gritty spikes-and-blood" iron age fanbase. Not that you can't make a good movie out of such material ( Deadpool: "Hey guys!" ), but Batman and especially Superman really shouldn't be that. End result is, to quote a cliche, Superman movies for people who don't like Superman.

Agree 100%. As a longtime Superman fan I am so tired of people telling me that I should just shut up and not say anything negative because they didn't like Superman until Snyder's take on the character.

And I agree with Frodo that he makes films for people like him, middle-aged men who never moved past their angry 15 year old 'edgy' phase.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think it's pretty obvious. I don't think they are aiming for the general movie goer at all. They are aiming towards comic fans first and foremost.

Then they are missing the mark badly because comic book fans are upset over the portrayal of the characters. If they think murdering Batman, depressed Superman, and...whatever that thing that they call Lex Luthor is, is what comic book fans want to see, then they have lost their minds.

 

[MadVillainy]

Agree 100%. As a longtime Superman fan I am so tired of people telling me that I should just shut up and not say anything negative because they didn't like Superman until Snyder's take on the character.

And I agree with Frodo that he makes films for people like him, middle-aged men who never moved past their angry 15 year old 'edgy' phase.

Now I don't like the DCEU so far, but that's an unfair assessment.

 

[The Joker]

If they are aiming toward comic fans then they are failing miserably. They are ticking off the comic fans more than the general audiences.

 

[Timebomb]

This is a hard question to answer. I don't think I can answer it in a respectful manner to all posters here so I will stay out of this conversation.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

Now I don't like the DCEU so far, but that's an unfair assessment.

I know, I shouldn't have singled out middle-aged men. There are clearly younger men and women who like what he's doing. And I don't hate his output, but he just seems to have such a depressing and angry view of the world, you know? 'Everyone is terrible, Superman has to die so that Earth will accept him'. I just don't like that cynism - I believe that men (and women!) are still good. But I'm British, ZS is American, we have different politics *shrug*

 

[MadVillainy]

I really really dont understand some of these really hardcore DCEU fans.

 

[The Joker]

I really really dont understand some of these really hardcore DCEU fans.

This is the type of mind set that insulted Kevin Conroy for criticizing Batfleck's killer Batman, and tried to petition to get Rotten Tomatoes shut down

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I really really dont understand some of these really hardcore DCEU fans.

Not hardcore. I see all the flaws. I just don't act like I finished reading War & Peace 24/7. And I'm optimistic about the future of the DCEU. If you can't get on my level then I'm sorry.

 

[MadVillainy]

This is the type of mind set that insulted Kevin Conroy for criticizing Batfleck's killer Batman, and tried to petition to get Rotten Tomatoes shut down

Jesus
Ive never seen a vocal minority of a fanbase be so terrible. Theyre giving the rest of the DC/DCEU fans a bad name and are actually hurting the brand name of DC films.

But that's a whole nother topic...

I know, I shouldn't have singled out middle-aged men. There are clearly younger men and women who like what he's doing. And I don't hate his output, but he just seems to have such a depressing and angry view of the world, you know? 'Everyone is terrible, Superman has to die so that Earth will accept him'. I just don't like that cynism - I believe that men (and women!) are still good. But I'm British, ZS is American, we have different politics *shrug*

I agree with what your saying and I'm American. It's not an American-non American thing. Ive been saying Snyder's portrayal of Supes is by someone who doesn't "get" the character (and I hate that sentiment) I just thought it wasn't good to say he makes films for middle aged men who never moved past their angry 15 year old 'edgy' phase.

Some people just like the movie. Generally it doesn't make them any more mature or immature than the rest of us.

 

[Miss Lois Lane]

Jesus
Ive never seen a vocal minority of a fanbase be so terrible. Theyre giving the rest of the DC/DCEU fans a bad name and are actually hurting the brand name of DC films.

But that's a whole nother topic...


I agree with what your saying and I'm American. Ive been saying Snyder's portrayal of Supes is by someone who doesn't "get" the character (and I hate that sentiment) I just thought it wasn't good to say he makes films for middle aged men who never moved past their angry 15 year old 'edgy' phase.

Some people just like the movie. Generally it doesn't make them any more mature or immature than the rest of us.

I get what you're saying - I was being reactionary and silly, and apologise if it stirred up trouble.

 

[MbJ]

Then they are missing the mark badly because comic book fans are upset over the portrayal of the characters. If they think murdering Batman, depressed Superman, and...whatever that thing that they call Lex Luthor is, is what comic book fans want to see, then they have lost their minds.

That's what makes me laugh so hard about the frequent defense that critics don't like DC movies because they're made for hardcore fans.

Quite a few hardcore fans seem to take issue with Snyder's choices.

 

[writer0327]

Then they are missing the mark badly because comic book fans are upset over the portrayal of the characters. If they think murdering Batman, depressed Superman, and...whatever that thing that they call Lex Luthor is, is what comic book fans want to see, then they have lost their minds.

And thus we have the problem with the DCEU.

I think they want to make films they BELIEVE comic fans are looking for that will also resonate with general audiences, not understanding fully (IMO) what the comic fan wants in their films. I think they have it backwards. Their films should be films that general audiences are looking for and can enjoy that will also resonate strongly with comic book fans.

They have lifted storylines, plot points, and in some cases actual panels directly from classic graphic novels and comic books and tried to cobble a story around them... as if this is what the comic book fans wanted, just rehashed combinations of old comic book storylines (TDKR, DOS among others) from yesteryear, sprinkled with fight scenes. And honestly, I think some fans truly do, which is why the DCEU has very vocal supporters.

This is why you hear folks argue..."But you don't get it, that's the way Superman is portrayed in the comics..." and I'm always waiting to hear them cite issue and page number. I have several reasons why Superman should never be portrayed the way they did it in MoS and BvS, but I won't get into that here. Nevertheless, that's what I mean by DC is trying to satisfy those fans FIRST, because they appear to be lifting story elements from comic books and just throwing them out there without asking is this even the proper place or method to deliver this version of Superman, Batman, JLA, etc.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

And thus we have the problem with the DCEU.

I think they want to make films they BELIEVE comic fans are looking for that will also resonate with general audiences, not understanding fully (IMO) what the comic fan wants in their films. I think they have it backwards. Their films should be films that general audiences are looking for and can enjoy that will also resonate strongly with comic book fans.

They have lifted storylines, plot points, and in some cases actual panels directly from classic graphic novels and comic books and tried to cobble a story around them... as if this is what the comic book fans wanted, just rehashed combinations of old comic book storylines (TDKR, DOS among others) from yesteryear, sprinkled with fight scenes. And honestly, I think some fans truly do, which is why the DCEU has very vocal supporters.

This is why you hear folks argue..."But you don't get it, that's the way Superman is portrayed in the comics..." and I'm always waiting to hear them cite issue and page number. I have several reasons why Superman should never be portrayed the way they did it in MoS and BvS, but I won't get into that here. Nevertheless, that's what I mean by DC is trying to satisfy those fans FIRST, because they appear to be lifting story elements from comic books and just throwing them out there without asking is this even the proper place or method to deliver this version of Superman, Batman, JLA, etc.

I've done the whole "cite the Superman" game ad nauseum. It's not my fault people have chosen to ignore it. These days I just say read Superman: Earth One. I'm fully anticipating a rebuttal where you say something along the lines of "a lot of different interpretations; not the definitive Superman" to which I say

a. I proved you wrong by citing a Superman story similar to the characterization in MOS/BVS

b. There are other stories, but as I said early in this post I don't feel like hunting down yet again all the sources Snyder's version pulls from only to NOT sway someone to my way of thinking yet again.

 

[MbJ]

And thus we have the problem with the DCEU.

I think they want to make films they BELIEVE comic fans are looking for that will also resonate with general audiences, not understanding fully (IMO) what the comic fan wants in their films. I think they have it backwards. Their films should be films that general audiences are looking for and can enjoy that will also resonate strongly with comic book fans.

They have lifted storylines, plot points, and in some cases actual panels directly from classic graphic novels and comic books and tried to cobble a story around them... as if this is what the comic book fans wanted, just rehashed combinations of old comic book storylines (TDKR, DOS among others) from yesteryear, sprinkled with fight scenes. And honestly, I think some fans truly do, which is why the DCEU has very vocal supporters.

This is why you hear folks argue..."But you don't get it, that's the way Superman is portrayed in the comics..." and I'm always waiting to hear them cite issue and page number. I have several reasons why Superman should never be portrayed the way they did it in MoS and BvS, but I won't get into that here. Nevertheless, that's what I mean by DC is trying to satisfy those fans FIRST, because they appear to be lifting story elements from comic books and just throwing them out there without asking is this even the proper place or method to deliver this version of Superman, Batman, JLA, etc.

There's a sort of cold cynicism involved. With Snyder's movies in particular, I'm reminded in a lot of ways of Ang Lee's Hulk. There was an interview with someone who once said that the movie tries way too hard to seem serious, "adult" and artistic, and that it comes off like the writer and director were embarrassed to be making a funny book movie, so they just went overboard trying to make it seem like it had artistic merit.

I get those same vibes from both Man of Steel and BVS. Like there's the perception that Batman and Superman are for kids, so obviously to compensate, we must make this movie as pretentious, joyless, and grim as possible so people will kiss our butts and praise us for making a "serious," "adult" superhero movie.

 

[flickchick85]

And I agree with Frodo that he makes films for people like him, middle-aged men who never moved past their angry 15 year old 'edgy' phase.

I know, I shouldn't have singled out middle-aged men. There are clearly younger men and women who like what he's doing. And I don't hate his output, but he just seems to have such a depressing and angry view of the world, you know? 'Everyone is terrible, Superman has to die so that Earth will accept him'. I just don't like that cynism - I believe that men (and women!) are still good. But I'm British, ZS is American, we have different politics *shrug*

I get what you're saying - I was being reactionary and silly, and apologise if it stirred up trouble.

I was about to hand you an infraction considering I had just posted an in-thread warning against making derogatory generalizations about the people who feel differently about a film than you, but then I saw further down in the thread that you realized what was wrong with your post, owned up to it and apologized. We don't get much of that around here. Nicely done.

 

[writer0327]

I've done the whole "cite the Superman" game ad nauseum. It's not my fault people have chosen to ignore it. These days I just say read Superman: Earth One. I'm fully anticipating a rebuttal where you say something along the lines of "a lot of different interpretations; not the definitive Superman" to which I say

a. I proved you wrong by citing a Superman story similar to the characterization in MOS/BVS

b. There are other stories, but as I said early in this post I don't feel like hunting down yet again all the sources Snyder's version pulls from only to NOT sway someone to my way of thinking yet again.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying that Snyder's versions of Superman are found in comics? Because if so, I agree, that's EXACTLY what DC is doing. They have lifted, not only the characterization of Superman, but also whole lines of dialog and framing/cropping of actual panels from certain comics.

And this is what I'm saying...this a big problem with the DCEU: making films for comic book fans and not for the general movie goer. That's why I'm asking: who is the audience for these films? Not only that, but everything in a comic book won't be perfectly translated into film. This was the problem with trying to greenlight Watchmen for years, and in my opinion, the reason why the graphic novel will always be superior to the 2009 film or to any film version for that matter. Certain things are just meant to be on page and not celluloid.

I know I'm oversimplifying this, but it's as if they are saying "Hey, let's take various themes and plot points and characterizations from various well-known comics that fans have loved over the years and make a movie out of them..." without stopping to consider exactly what audience they hoped to attract with these movies. I think what happened with DC is they saw how Nolan was inspired by the Long Halloween and BYO and worked those elements perfectly into the TDK trilogy and figured they would continue the trend with Superman and the DCEU overall. So far all they have done is proved is you can't just lift stuff out of old comics and think it will play out great on film. You actually need to have a good filmmaker behind it all.

 

[writer0327]

There's a sort of cold cynicism involved. With Snyder's movies in particular, I'm reminded in a lot of ways of Ang Lee's Hulk. There was an interview with someone who once said that the movie tries way too hard to seem serious, "adult" and artistic, and that it comes off like the writer and director were embarrassed to be making a funny book movie, so they just went overboard trying to make it seem like it had artistic merit.

I get those same vibes from both Man of Steel and BVS. Like there's the perception that Batman and Superman are for kids, so obviously to compensate, we must make this movie as pretentious, joyless, and grim as possible so people will kiss our butts and praise us for making a "serious," "adult" superhero movie.

Indeed, indeed, indeed. Which is funny to me because folks were saying earlier in this thread that "of course" they are making these movies for the general movie goer....Anyone who pours a $200M budget into a film is making it for the general audience. And my answer to that in all honesty is I don't think that's what they are doing at all... at least not the filmmakers. They are aiming this film at the more serious, hardcore comic book fan. They are taking scenes and bits and pieces directly from stories that I would bet my life the vast majority of moviegoers have never read but are very popular with comic book fans.

And there are true fans of that sort of story, the serious, adult superhero story. I can attest to enjoying the "more serious" comic myself so I have no problem with the more serious comic book films at all.