Dear DC, if you're going to power down Darkseid so much in your stories...

[fifthfiend]

Yes, and I'm remembering why it would have ever made sense to depower Darkseid.

As soon as they took him out of the New Gods setting and put those characters into a larger DCU context, he was unacceptable as an invincible, do anything he wants god. He had to be depowered.

I'm almost finding myself in favor of a massive retcon that erases the New Gods from continuity and places them in their own universe. But not quite.

He managed to work in-cont for like, decades. They only started really depowering him circa-2000 or so.

Honestly I'd like to see Superman bring down Darkseid, but it should be like, Superman leading every single hero in the universe against a fully-powered Darkseid.

But really I think I just like the idea of there being one guy in the DCU who Superman is never gonna be able to beat on the level of strength alone.

 

[The Question]

No one should bring Darkseid down besides Orion. That would just spit in the face of Kirby's memory.

 

[kytrigger]

No one should bring Darkseid down besides Orion. That would just spit in the face of Kirby's memory.

Even then, I would prefer that Orion wouldn't even bring Darkseid down by himself. he may be the only one to be able to kill Darkseid, but that doesn't mean he has to do it alone.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Batman shouldn't be able to take down Darkseid or take hits from him.

Wow, we don't do no jokin' 'round here...

Darksied is not and should never be considered a brawler. He should be a thinking man's adversary.

But if all the guy has to do, according to some people, is just magically, godlily, make everything happen the way he wants it to...why would he bother with a cerebral mind game? Why wouldn't he just refashion the worlds of his enemies in his image?

The New Gods were always apart of the DCU.

I haven't read my old New Gods stuff in awhile, but if memory serves, they didn't really interact with the rest of the DCU for a number of years, did they?

 

[The Question]

I haven't read my old New Gods stuff in awhile, but if memory serves, they didn't really interact with the rest of the DCU for a number of years, did they?

Their first apearance was in "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen."

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Their first apearance was in "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen."

Why, you're right. Point.

 

[ssj wolverine]

While I agree that a full powered Darkseid is above Superman, some of you act like pre-crisis Darkseid is on Galacutus level.

 

[Green Lantern]

...He WAS.

 

[XwolverineX]

Yeah, Darkseid should be pretty much unbeatable one-on-one for anyone other than Orion, and Orion should still be very much the underdog and probably lose 7 times out of 10.

Does Darkseid have super speed? Anyone with speed and strength should defeat someone lacking speed.

 

[Spike_x1]

Mongul has a chest cannon?

Yes, he does.

With both the pre-crisis Mongul and post-crisis Mongul II, it seems as if the cannon was just a weapon mounted on his armor, but the first post-crisis Mongul's cannon was more of an amulet that he needed in order to live. I forget the details of why he needed it, exactly.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

I believe that I have all of Monguls pre crisis appearances and I don't recall seeing that in any of them. The only thing that he used other than physical prowess was the force cube that shrank and irradiated Superman with red sun energy.

 

[XwolverineX]

Spike, nice avvvyyytar. Have you played Double Agent?

 

[Spike_x1]

I believe that I have all of Monguls pre crisis appearances and I don't recall seeing that in any of them. The only thing that he used other than physical prowess was the force cube that shrank and irradiated Superman with red sun energy.

The third picture in my previous post is from the pre-crisis timeline.

And he used the entire planet of Warworld against Superman and Supergirl. I don't think that counts as physical prowess either.

Spike, nice avvvyyytar. Have you played Double Agent?

Not yet, but it's first on my shopping list for when I can get enough spare moolah to spend on it.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

I had forgotten that he was the villain in the Warworld storyline. The third picture is not familiar. I either missed that story or I have simply totally forgotten it. Since I haven't read them since they came out forgetting is very possible.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Does Darkseid have super speed? Anyone with speed and strength should defeat someone lacking speed.

I'm pretty sure he does. Even if he didn't, though, that's a silly blanket statement to make. If one character without super-speed is overwhelmingly more powerful than another with super-speed, the speed probably wouldn't help that much.

 

[Sloth7d]

Well a small 10 gram bullet can peirce steel walls thanks to high speeds. High strenth with high speed should easily defeat someone with overwelming strenth. Especially since they shouldn't be able to hit you. And because the strenthy multiplied by the velocity should be able to put his strenth on the others level.

 

[The Question]

Well a small 10 gram bullet can peirce steel walls thanks to high speeds. High strenth with high speed should easily defeat someone with overwelming strenth. Especially since they shouldn't be able to hit you. And because the strenthy multiplied by the velocity should be able to put his strenth on the others level.

Not true. Not all bullets can peirce tank armor. A person with super speed still might not be able to defeat someone vastly more powerful than they are.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well a small 10 gram bullet can peirce steel walls thanks to high speeds. High strenth with high speed should easily defeat someone with overwelming strenth. Especially since they shouldn't be able to hit you. And because the strenthy multiplied by the velocity should be able to put his strenth on the others level.

I'm talking about someone who's got obscenely high power levels, in which case I don't think any speed advantage would be of use. Consider, say, a full-power Galactus, operating at normal speed, against Makkari or Superman. I don't think either would stand a chance against Galactus because the power differential is so overwhelming. Plus, as I said, I'm fairly certain Darkseid does have super-speed, even if he doesn't use it all that often.

 

[The Question]

I'm talking about someone who's got obscenely high power levels, in which case I don't think any speed advantage would be of use. Consider, say, a full-power Galactus, operating at normal speed, against Makkari or Superman. I don't think either would stand a chance against Galactus because the power differential is so overwhelming. Plus, as I said, I'm fairly certain Darkseid does have super-speed, even if he doesn't use it all that often.

Once, Darkseid confronted Clark Kent. He grabbed Clark by the throat and pinned him against a wall so fast that Clark didn't even see him move.

 

[Sloth7d]

True. Speed plus strenth doesn't always make you hit harder. But in Superman and Darkseids case I think that would give him the edge if he used his speedblitz attacks more.
And I'm still not convinced Darkseid has superspeed either. I'm sure his strenth gives him some sort of hightened speed, but not anything close to sound speed or light speed.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, if the instance Question just cited is true, I'd say he's beyond Superman's speed, at least.

 

[Sloth7d]

But if that IS true, then how come Darkseid hasn't demostrated this speed more consistently. Maybe that issue was a case of bad writing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How come Superman hasn't demonstrated his speed more consistently? He fights at normal speed quite a lot of the time.

 

[Sloth7d]

I mean he uses it for spacetraveling and speedblitz from time to time, but I've only just heard of this one insident with Darkseid using super speed.

 

[Green Lantern]

But if that IS true, then how come Darkseid hasn't demostrated this speed more consistently. Maybe that issue was a case of bad writing.

...Thats the whole point of this thread... Darkseid is being effectively powered down and *****fied so that he can be Superman's perennial whipping boy.