Did Sandman and Venom present a greater threat than previous villains?

Discussion in 'Spider-Man 1, 2 & 3' started by herolee10, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. herolee10 No More Miracles

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    With Spiderman 1 and 2, both the Green Goblin and Dr. Ock had presented not only as a great threat towards Spiderman, but to everyone else in New York in General. Yet with Spiderman 3, in my opinion, neither Sandman, Harry, or Venom had presented that same dangerous factor that the previous villains have had. Sure Sandman and Venom had hurt/killed a few cops, but really all we had was a guy that had sand-like powers trying to get money for his sick daughter and a stalker like ex photographer who simply wanted revenge on Peter. Hell, after seeing the bootlegged version of TDK teaser, the Joker presents a much more greater threat towards a city even though he doesn't have any powers. Sam should've in my opinion have escalated the "danger" factor in SM3, hell have Venom threat Spiderman with something saying that if he doesn't do it, he'll kill a certain amount of ppl during a set time. Make Sandman such a threat that just like in TDK, have everyone in New York evacuate the city or something. Does anyone else agree with me on this?
     
  2. Stevens25 Guest

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    I don't think the villains of Spider-man 3 were meant as more than threats to Peter himself,and not the city. Green Goblin and Doc Ock were two baddies who only really fought Spider-man because he stood in their way and presented an obstacle to their true goals. Venom,Sandman and New Goblin were the exact opposite. For them,Spider-man's destruction WAS their true and only goal. Probably the biggest threat to Spider-man in the film would've been Venom because Harry wanted Spider-man dead,but would not really have hurt anyone else(I believe,anyway)and Sandman was more interested in saving his daughter than really hurting anyone(although he did do his share of bad things). Venom,however,not only wanted Spidey/Peter dead but I'm sure he would've went after MJ and Aunt May next,and then anyone else who pissed him off. He was a psycho and once he managed to kill Spidey I could see Brock using his powers to threaten the city.Not on the scale than Doc Ock did,but by making New York his own personal playground.
     
  3. herolee10 No More Miracles

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    Great analysis, I really do believe that out of all the villains, Venom was the most dangerous one obviously, I just wish that they would've incorporated how terrifying he is as well, that anyone who saw him would instantly be freaked out and afraid/terrorized. Sandman and Harry, yea they weren't really the types that would have wanted to hurt all of New York, but Venom as you said would've made New York his own twisted personalized version of his own playground, have him silently take the lives of a innocent person at night, have their fear incorporated on the screen or something, but yea
     
  4. Spider-Vader Mercin' & Workin'

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    Venom shouldn't of been a huge threat anyway because he's an anti-hero. He only wants Spidey dead.
     
  5. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Venom and Sandman paled in comparison to Ock and Gobby in the threat department.
     
  6. Legendary Registered

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    Sandman and venom had the potential to be a greater threat but they were horribly executed characters in a horribly executed movie in part of a mediocre film franchise.

    GG and Doc Ock caused some serious damage to spidey/peter and the funny thing is, it was plain luck that spidey managed to defeat doc ock, in fact, I'd go as far as saying doc ock defeated himself. His arrogance and ego got the better of him.

    Venom was watered down and served no real purpose to the story and sandman was a villain who I kept thinking, "when is he going to do something".

    When it comes down to it, GG and Doc ock were the most pro-active supervillains of the series.
     
  7. I Am The Knight Tonight's a good night.

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    Neither Sandman nor Venom had the time to pose bigger threats, they really just weren't given much exposure. So at the end, they went after MJ. "Oh Boy."
     
  8. Legendary Registered

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    Time? They had plenty of time in fact, time was in a fair amount of abundance but Raimi decided to waste that time on the other stuff that resulted in sm3's blatant misperformence.
     
  9. I Am The Knight Tonight's a good night.

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    I know. Raimi decide to focus on the relationship stuff, so the villains got shortchanged.
     
  10. Legendary Registered

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    The thing is, there's nothing wrong with focusing on the relationship but not only was that handled badly, given the villains and the threats they should have posed, the relationship should have taken a back seat. That right there is common sense and Raimi didn't apply much of it at all. It's as if he said, "hey, we've got 2 amazingly powerful super villains on the loose but hey, lets focus more on the relationship troubles affecting peer and mj". Imo, not only was this bad story telling but as a director and an established one at that, it was ultimately poor directing.
     
  11. Blader5489 CASUAL SEX!

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    Yes, damn Raimi and his preference for character over spectacle. :whatever:
     
  12. Legendary Registered

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    You missed my point which was as clear as day. His character work was handled badly also. Read the first 18 words of my post.:whatever: :o
     
  13. Spider-ManHero12 Web-Slinger

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    Sandman and Venom did create a bigger threat becuase Sandman was willing to stop at nothing to find a cure for his daughter. He knocked out scurity gaurds, etc. Venom wanted Spider-Man dead, he kidnapped MJ, so he was a big threat but was more focused on killing Spider-Man. Though, if anybody got in his way I'm sure he would take care of them. Venom in the comic's was an Anti-hero (not the first couple of Issue's though), but he still wouldn't let people stand in his way of going after Spider-Man.

    Anyway, the rivalry between Green Goblin and Spider-Man was more personal than a threat to the city. Sure, the Green Goblin was a threat, but he wasn't going to destroy the whole city. Doc Ock wanted money to rebuild, so he was focused on getting money and he wouldn't let anyone or anything get in his way of doing that. So as I said earlier in my post, Sandman and Venom were bigger threats.
     
  14. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    That's nothing compared to what Doc Ock and Green Goblin did to achieve their goals. They had no problem hurting and killing people to get what they wanted. Especially Goblin, who's plan required the murder of his competitors.

    Sandman was very tame. He even told Spidey he did not want to hurt him and asked him to leave when they first met. He was a ***** cat.

    Ock and Goblin did that, too. How does that make Venom a bigger threat than them?

    So did Ock and Goblin.

    Not really, because Norman had another agenda besides getting Spider-Man. The attack on Times Square and the Quest bunker are proof of that.

    Venom and Sandman didn't come anywhere close to that kind of glorious evil and destruction.

    Neither was Sandman and Venom.

    Doc Ock's goal wasn't money. He wanted to rebuild his reactor of doom. And, that required money. If Ock succeeded, the city would be destroyed.

    But, you're wrong.
     
  15. Blader5489 CASUAL SEX!

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    Does every villain need to have a "destroy the city" goal though? Not only is it cliche, but it gets old if the movies rely on that formula over and over again.

    Obviously Harry and Venom (somewhat) were personal threats, but I would disagree that Sandman wasn't a city-wide threat; he may not have wanted to hurt other people, but his very movement was hurling cars and people around. Doc Ock was the same: a villain whose goal for money, tritium, etc. was putting other people at risk in the process. And that's very much apparent in the first Spidey/Sandman fight.

    Venom didn't pose a threat to the entire city, but I don't think it's a stretch to think he wouldn't have gone Goblin crazy had he accomplished his first goal.
     
  16. Spider-ManHero12 Web-Slinger

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    Sandman and Venom didn't have a problem with it either. Venom attacked the SWAT n the news in Spidey3 and so did Sandman. Sandman also said "I don't want to hurt you, leave now." It was pretty much a warning that if Spidey didn't leave, Sandman was going to hurt him. Sure he was tame, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't lash out if someone got in his way.

    I think you are rightabout Norman, but as the film goes on he started to have more hate for Spidey becuase Spidey stopped him. So basically, as the film whent on it got more personal.
     
  17. shogunrua Registered

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    Venom had the potential to be the greatest threat of the 3 movies. As someone already said, for GG, Doc Ock and Sandman, Spidey was merely a nuisance in their plans. That leaves GG2 and Venom. As we saw GG2 merely wanted to hurt Peter, and hadn't any problem using MJ for it (but wasn't going to hurt her)...now Venom, the guy wanted to kill Peter, and said he was going to kill MJ too. The guy knows everyone Peter holds dear and showed NO remorses about hurting them, if he could, I think he would have done the greatest damage.
     
  18. Stevens25 Guest

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    I agree 100%,but as others have said,his character in the film wasn't as fully developed as Ock and Goblin. I doubt we'll really know what Venom could've really accomplished since Raimi took most of his time to focus on other things. All the other villains did seem to have some reasoning behind their actions. The Green Goblin wanted to rule the city but not to destroy it. What would be the point in that? He was also "sane" enough to try and team up with Spider-man,at least for a little while anyway.He understood what he could achieve with Spidey at his side. Ock let his pride overcome himself and,much like Sandman,I believe there was a good man under the monster. Again,he wasn't insane just clearly under the influence of his "arms." He gave into his greed,so to speak. Sandman and Goblin,as others have said,weren't bad people. Harry was confused and as we saw in the end of Spidey 3,he was strong enough to see the good person he really was.
    Venom,on the other hand was clearly insane. And insanity is unpredictable. Brock was pissed off enough as it is.Then,add an alien symbiote that really seemed to have no positive emotions and just fed off negative feelings. Even if Brock somehow tried to let go of his anger,I doubt the symbiote would let him have done it so easily. After all,it feeds off the hatred inside Brock's soul. I would think that if Venom managed to kill Spider-man,his rage wouldn't have been stopped there.
    All the other villains still had some humanity left in them,even the Green Goblin. But Venom,he had nothing but anger,rage,hatred and cared for no one. He seemed to enjoy seeing others suffer more then anyone.
     
  19. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    How does any of that make them a bigger threat than Ock and Gobby, though? You still haven't mentioned anything that Ock and Gobby didn't or wouldn't do.

    By others you mean Peter, right? He was the only focal point of Brock's rage and vengeance. Nobody else. He was the only one Brock showed any joy when hurting.
     
  20. Stevens25 Guest

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    Well,yes. Peter death and destruction was Brock's only goal. But he put MJ in danger,killed Harry,had fun with that police Swat team and I'm sure he murdered that cab driver in order to obtain the cab when he kidnapped MJ. In the novel he also threatened Marko's family. Quite honestly,the only one he might have cared for was Gwen Stacy,since he was in love with her. If you saw the free comic that came with the Spider-man 3 dvd at Wal-mart,then you'll see what I mean. He was obsessed with her. But...that was Brock,NOT the symbiote. Brock didn't have the will or strength that Peter did to resist the suit and the power that came with it. I'm not even sure he wanted to. The symbiote is just an alien entity that didn't cared about things like love. In time it would've have completely taken over Eddie's heart and soul. At least,that's my guess.
     
  21. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Yes, but as I said above, these were acts that Ock and Gobby also committed. Murder, mayhem, destruction, kidnapping MJ. And, at least we got see them smile and laugh while doing it. In Goblin's case, mainly laugh :cwink: Brock's emotions were hidden behind the symbiote. The velociraptor screeches didn't exactly tell his mood :oldrazz:

    Ock and Gobby even went one lower and terrorized an old woman [Aunt May]. It was all a means to an end, though. Like what Brock did. All just to achieve their goal. Brock didn't even mean to kill Harry. It was a fluke.

    Yes, but I only base this on what was shown in the movies. The novels and comic book adaptions certainly do some interesting things that are different from the movie plot.

    The most memorable one has to be Spidey saving Otto Octavius from some robots trying to kidnap him on Peter's college campus.
     
  22. Killing Joke926 Registered

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    Hell, No. Green Goblin was the only villian who got at SpiderMan like Joker with BatMan. The other villians didn't even come close, Harry and Doc Ock went goodie tissues, SandMan wasn't even a villian, and Foreman was overly sensitive while maintaning to be a pathetic villian using every other villian's plan of stealing MJ and bring SpiderMan to their feet. *sighs* :cmad:
     
  23. The Joker_1000 Registered

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    I believe that the Green Goblin presented the greatest threat. As much as I loved the villains of SM-3, they weren't nearly as much of a threat as the Green Goblin AND Doc Ock. Both of these guys nearly killed Aunt May who is the closest person to Peter so that's the main thing that stands out in my mind when I think about who was the most dangerous. Harry comes close because he was so intent on killing Peter to get revenge & the only thing that stopped him the first time was him being knocked the **** out.
     
  24. Eternalzero Grand Master of Yum

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    No, it was definetly Green Goblin, he was truly insane.

    Venom wanted to kill parker and anyone close to him. Goblin on the other hand, destroyed the executives w/ a pumpkin bomb, and was terrorizing people just for the heck of it.

    Goblin was a more unstable person.
     
  25. Kahran Ramsus Super Moderator

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    Not only was Ock the most dangerous in that had he succeeded he would have done the most damage, but he was the only villain in the series to actually have Spider-Man beat at one point (after the train sequence). Ock came the closest of the five major villains of actually achieving his goal.

    He was not the most personal of the villains (that would be Harry), but he was the most threatening.
     

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