Discussion: Conspiracies and Cover Ups

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kelly, Apr 6, 2009.

?

Conspiracies? Fun or Frightening?

  1. Fun

  2. Frightening

  3. Ignorance is Bliss

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Kelly

    Kelly #RESIST

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    69,905
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, driving home from the football game last night listening to talk radio they talked about that.....

    The fact that Biden just visited the Mount Weather Command Base hasn't helped conspiracy people feel better about this...lol
     
    #601
  2. SV Fan

    SV Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    8,061
    Likes Received:
    1
    Speaking of JFK conspiracy theories and Jackie O(I saw this one a year ago and weirdly(although I don't believe it) it works

    [YT]N_REjNbyo1Q[/YT]
     
    #602
  3. enterthemadness

    enterthemadness The Triumvirate

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    28,534
    Likes Received:
    0

    I believe in conspiracies...but then I make fun of them to cover my butt...soooo..but no, I believe in a few NWO, Bilderberg(which really isn't one anymore, that's a fact, just don't know what said important people talk about behind closed doors for 3 days), Georgia Guildstones, JFK....point is...look, umm...I used to visit infowars 24/7....not good...nothing wrong with believing in this stuff, just it's bad when it's 24/7. I just put this info in back of my head.

    :o also RT is better than infowars. But no seriously, even though RT gives conspiracy theories air time, I find it--from what I seen--better than say...CNN, MSNBC, FOXNews.I only watch FOXNews cause of my love fest of Greg Gutfeld, Bill Schultz, and RED EYE. I'll probably watch The Five soon...Greg is on it anyway.

    As for JFK, I took a class in high school that was a keyboarding II class. Everything was JFK...conspiracy...nice teacher...think overall in the end, the evidence pointed towards the shooter not being the actual shooter, just fall guy. Sounds believable...I honestly believe there's more to it than what ''officially' happened. Of course I'll admit that maybe it just sounds too simple of just one guy on his on doing it all.
     
    #603
  4. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's definitely some overarching conspiracy. Or some elite few who pretty much run the show. I say that being one of them in fact. My grandfather was Assist Sec of Def and my cousin is a State Department official. Among other things. My grandfather was also ambassador to Argentina. President of TWA. BoD at Ford. President of the Foreign Policy Administration and involved in the founding on the UN. I've met George Bush and Bill Clinton twice. I even campaigned for Hillary. So yes, it's a f***ed up world. We've killed 11 million civilians since 2000. Confirmed. We kill people who won't play ball with us economically.

    Some conspiracy stuff is a little over the top. Some of my roommates b*tching about monetary policy is basically "wah I can't pay my bills" even though I got give me a litany of things he's done wrong to shoot himself in the foot. Yeah, but like in Zeitgeist for example, some of that's harsh. Money is definitely both good and bad. It's better than its predecessors. Yet that's sometimes my problem with conspiracy theories. Some sound like belly aching about imperfections rather than reasonable suggestions about how to change things.

    There is one conspiracy theory I believe.

    The "establishment" had it in for Jimmy Carter. He was right and wouldn't play ball. So then spent their time setting him up to fail at every turn. The Fed did him in, so George H. W. Bush could basically run the show. My grandfather always used to joke Reagan was an actor. That's what I've always believed. You've really had 5 terms of Bush. Bush reputation will get much bleaker as years go on.
     
    #604
  5. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    5,740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jumping into this thread. I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories. I think they're made by people who want excitement.
     
    #605
  6. Venom75

    Venom75 I'm symbiotic!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not one to believe conspiracy theories myself,but the one that continues to utterly upset me is all these goofy conspiracies concerning 9/11. The evidence is overwhelming to suggest that Bin Laden and his cronies were the ones responsible. Yet,alot of people out there still wanna believe that Bush or our own government had something to do with that. Just...unbelievable.:whatever:
     
    #606
  7. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah. They often forget life is fairly mundane, and that overly wacky things need not apply.
    No offense, but you're a bimbo to believe Bush had *nothing* to do with it.

    The use of it as a false flag, and the notions of money and the wealthy elite using us like pawns in wars for profit is certainly a thing. The evidence for it is overwhelming.

    The nonsense about missiles and 'controlled demolitions' is, quite frankly, just a distraction.

    Our Government doesn't need to employ something that overly elaborate. Whether by plane or missile, it hardly matters. There are more legitimate questions; like why did Bush and his cronies get to appear together in front of the 9/11 commission together, rather than be cross examined?
     
    #607
  8. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    Conspiracy theories, or most of them to me, underestimate the fact that "conspiracies" are pretty natural to humans. As history shows, humans will perpetuate a bankrupt system long past the point of it's usefulness.

    When did we start to realize Christianity, and most other religions were simply mythological and allegorical. Not really historically accurate. Because it isn't a new idea, you can read Thomas Jefferson, and atheists tracing back even BEFORE Jesus who were onto similar and well backed ideas.

    Quite ironically, in my opinion it's like there are conspiracies, and there really aren't.

    Basically since we live in a monetary society, money is going to pool near the top. It's just what happens. Just run the numbers. It's great for people who get in early and sh***y for people who get in late. Money is a decent idea in theory, because it incentivised great change, but one day it will outlive it's usefullness.

    What I dislike about conspiracists is when it's all 'The Rothchilds". Don't get me wrong, they suck, but like any other human, they're gonna milk a teet until it runs dry. I think politics overall is a somewhat natural process, but it's not a bad thing to get mad at "the system" and want it to change faster. That's always a noble gesture in my opinion. Yet most conspiracists lack any tangible contribution to society, so they're forced to simply squeele and point at the ones making mistakes and or deliberately doing wrong and try to blow the whistle on them.

    I give the people who did Loose Change and Zeitgeist credit for being creative and getting across a message that truly makes you think. Zeitgeist at least seems more tongue and cheek that it's exaggerating to make a point, a very good point, about common humanity (see: Addendum. It's much more clear what point he's getting at). They also should be applauded since some of what they say is really quite true. Corporations really are operating at an unchecked level, and have some very shady, sh***y and horrible connections to war, and indeed buy Politicians. That's a fact, jack. It's also a fact though that their are very well meaning and non corrupt people in Government.

    I'm always more than a little baffled at their selective use of scientific thinking. For example, doubting Jesus on a lack of evidence is not a bad thing. Then deciding that means the Bible is some plot by the Pagans to control us because if you look at the astrological signs...blah...blah...blah. Yeah, wow, they discovered that sometimes religions aren't very creative and rip each other off. I assume the similarities between Superman and Jesus are a conspiracy by the Jews or Pagans or some sh** too? Yeah, that's ridiculous. Shakespeare and so many other literary icons have already pointed out there's only so many basic stories out there that get repeated, mostly out of convenience...remakes aren't some new thing after all.

    See that's where the conspiracy takes all the wrong turns. For another example, the Bible codes. The idea there are secret languages in things, like the Riddler leaving clues for Batman. By the way...see what I did there. Mentioned Riddler, Batman, Superman, Jesus and Shakespeare. Must mean we're all in cahoots right? Starting a NWO, right? Wrong. I'm just referencing things common to me and others at my time. So of course they'll be odd, seemingly coincidental references in writings. That, in fact, is often how they study writings and determine age; by seeing what phrases are used. If someone turned in a parchment with God saying "sorry dude" and said it was written at the time of Christ, and contained references to him I think there would be serious doubts of it's authenticity. But hey, it worked for Joseph Smith.

    The problem is they go that one step further and read intent into, which you also cannot do without evidence. Sure, someone may have f***ed up and entered a bunch of blatant lies into oral tradition. It's called gossip and sometimes it sticks. Same thing with Bush. You can certainly prove that someone in that White House either knew something or should've known something, because people had tried to warn them and documentation has been produced that shows at least gross negligence on their part. Yet it's hard to then conclude it's an evil plot, and not just something they conveniently ignored that took advantage of rather than admitted any wrong doing.

    I think conspiracy theorists also underestimate the amount of time Government and even private Industries spend playing mindsweeper rather than doing their jobs.

    The other thing I dislike about conspiracies (I guess this is a long list)...is that conspiracists usually present themselves as "outside the conspiracy", so therefore they have no allies, and more importantly they miss their role. When they trot someone out in these videos to comment on liquidating a country, they're not "blowing the whistle on a conspiracy", they are simply adding to the body of knowledge. Technicians and Engineers understand you fix a system a component at a time, you don't find a bad transitor and throw out your whole car.
     
    #608
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  9. Midnyte_Sun

    Midnyte_Sun Medianoche de Sol

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    5,672
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's a show on "TruTV" about Conspiracies with former Governor, Jessie Ventura.

    He made a VERY provocative case about Hurricane Katrina, and BP's plan to depopulate portions of the Gulf in order to prevent a future liability. He also connected a chemical company that has been using an unsafe and poisonous compound during the cleanup, and how BP gave them no-bid contracts because board members of BP were also in the same company.

    FURTHERMORE, he also showed how BP execs, former Halliburton, and others invested heavily into oil clean up companies just WEEKS before the Oil spill.

    They apparently knew that the rig was going to malfunction because they blocked a law that is in effect in other countries with a certain fail-safe mechanism. When the oil rig exploded, BP execs and Halliburton made more money on insurance and their oil clean up investments than BP would have even made on OIL.

    Chew on that guys lol.
     
    #609
  10. Destructus86

    Destructus86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,684
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't go for the crazy stuff like the Illumaniti...but our government has been caught in PLENTY of conspiracies in the past. Fairly recent it was uncovered our government has been in bed with GMO corporations to push GMO seeds and foods onto other nations, including struggling nations. If they refused we threatened them with trade war. It's all about getting people enslaved by said corporations in order to make a profit. It helps when you have very high up government officials in your pocket as...*cough* ahem...paid advisors.
     
    #610
  11. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Shame Iran wanted to profit from their oil, eh?
     
    #611
  12. enterthemadness

    enterthemadness The Triumvirate

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    28,534
    Likes Received:
    0
    Once again...


    http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm


    Georgia Guildstones are pretty evil...

     
    #612
  13. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Carlyle Group is disgusting and very, shamefully real.

    So are both Prescott Bush's Nazi connections.

    I've long suspect Carter was run out of the White House by big banks and corporations pulling the strings of our economy. Plus Carter has those *hush* no, non American opinions like get off of foreign oil and Israel is effing up our foreign policy. If you look into Carter's Presidency real close he was a guy who didn't play ball and it seems like at every turn, despite him being right, they just set him up to fail. And maybe he was naive enough to fall for it.
     
    #613
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  14. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    5,740
    Likes Received:
    0
    There all possible. However, often the answer is the one we've seen, just simplified.
     
    #614
  15. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    I take the position that most conspiracy theories have a kernel of truth, or highlight something we've "accepted".

    There's no doubt Bush, Cheney and Rummy went to great lengths to cover their a** about "something" (which is largely speculative).

    Holocaust deniers have a lot of asinine theories which are quite amusing to me. However the raise a valid point of the 6 million that's been repeated. It's definitely an estimate at best, and although its based in fact you'll notice most historians have minor variations (some say 5.5, some think as low as 3). They're other valid point is that white supremacy and 'concentration camps' were found to a *slightly* lesser extent in Allied Countries. We still want to white wash Internment, but the gas chambers are about the only difference. We, unlike the Nazis didn't have allies reporters out photographing our 20,000 supposed dead (we "forgot" to record), those we had beaten, shot while trying to escape or forced into labor. I've always struggled to defend them. My best defense is "they were as bad" which is like getting a choice being being made a paraplegic or being drawn and quartered.

    Illuminati people are good to point out financial institution mindlessly getting us into wars for profit. Which is beyond ethically bankrupt. But then they take it too far, claim everyone they dislike is "in on it" or attach wackiness about lizards, Freemasons, Bavarian Illumantis, Skull N Bones, Walt Disney, the Music Industry, Zionists, Jews, and on and on and on.

    The Alien guys seem the most divorced from reality.
     
    #615
  16. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    5,740
    Likes Received:
    0
    I saw "Holocaust deniers" and "good point" in the same sentence and a part of me just exploded.
     
    #616
  17. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yet, that's the thing. They all have good points, which get muted because they take this too far.

    Lizard People, for example. How do you jump from the notion that because there is a "system" that seems to be in control, and then it's run by Lizard People? You don't. It's just a conclusion that's a jump in logic.

    But you're wrong if you think there is nothing to what any conspiracist says. In fact I think many take an extreme position in a way to mock those taking extreme positions.

    People cry about the Holocaust as if it's something "other people" did, and "other nations" and how could those poor Jews end up around such "evil" people. Because we all know the Allies were 'the good guys'. Meanwhile the Japanese and Native Americans must have been wondering why people in there country were missing the obvious fact of Ghettos and concentration camps right there in their own nation.

    I mean clearly we all remember the Native Americans being allowed to all roam freely from third world reservations during WWII, oh wait, many of them were still being held there against their will, even while they died from starvation. Yeah.

    Since 2000 we've killed 11 million civilians (matching the amount the Nazis killed).

    You can stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it's different because one did it with gas chambers and the other with guns and bombs, but that doesn't console the dead.

    Conspiracy theorists make one good point, all of them.

    It's time every damn person woke the f*** up and stop acting like their version of history is the heroes story and everyone else is the villain.

    Wanting to erase something from the history books in my mind is just plain wrong, but wanting even handedness about the subject of wrongful imprisonment and genocide is not. Sorry.

    It's this bullheadedness that's gotten us into this Middle Eastern, Israeli and Palestine quagmire.
     
    #617
  18. enterthemadness

    enterthemadness The Triumvirate

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    28,534
    Likes Received:
    0

    Freemasons like to keep secrets, which I don't agree with.

    The Music Industry/Hollywood is very pro Freemason and/or Illuminati. Tons of symbols in music videos. The new Kei$ha video is horrible. Nothing but Freemason/Illuminati symbols in it. Very blatant, almost like a parody. Talking about the song, ''Die Young''. The worst is it disrespects the Pagan symbol in it, by hinting that the pointed 5 star symbol is a symbol for Satan. The super worst part? Song has some good beats in it...bit catchy.

    Oh, and I like to point out...I no longer cover my butt by making jokes about conspiracies I believe in...I just make jokes to keep myself sane/make myself laugh.

    And yes, talking about conspiracies is pretty awesome way to past the time, I will admit that.
     
    #618
  19. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's kind of a inevitability you end up with Holocaust denial. Or UFOs. Or the Illumanti.

    Conspiracy theories often present an uncomfortable truth that leaders and entertainment is really deliberately deceiving us for their own ends (profit in most cases) and most people just accept it. I frankly think the over the top ones like Holocaust Denial or UFOs are trying to be entertaining more than informative, although they start from a similar starting point. The ridiculousness of their conclusions though are what makes them intriguing works of fiction.

    YouTube if anything has proven you don't need celebrities. We are better at entertaining ourselves for free than we are being entertained by overpaid people we're "told" are entertaining.

    The Music Industry. Let's say I don't like them, because they abuse their talent. That Industry really benefits only the owners, much like the NFL. We tell ourselves because they're grossly compensated it's fine, but frequently labels will essentially bankrupt stars when they've outlived their popularity, or introduce them to drugs and illicit sex to keep them from talking about it. Also, I'm 99% sure they chemically castrated Michael Jackson, and I wouldn't be surprised if his a**hole of a money grubbing father was all about chemically f***ing with his puberty. That's why he was asexual and never matured beyond a child. Because they fought back his acne with a dangerous chemical. Also Castrate' in music is a tradition, and it's a tradition that sadly hasn't completely ended.

    Yet I don't think they're that powerful, just saying. If they were downloading music for free wouldn't be kicking they're a** right now.
     
    #619
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  20. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's a conspiracy people like:

    WBC is basically just a bunch of Lawyers who figured out they can get rich by picketing funerals and then suing people who attack them. It's all a giant con (this is true as far as I can tell).
     
    #620
  21. Bathead

    Bathead The Oldest Geek

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    6,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, this ^^^was a claim made by an ex-church member, who may or may not (I forget) have been a relative of the Phellps family, and that Fred Phelps himself was indeed a lawyer who specialized in dealing with just such lawsuits for others.
     
    #621
  22. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    I mean he didn't even need to claim it, they're profession is Lawyers that specialize in personal injury. What a hell of a gig right?
     
    #622
  23. moraldeficiency

    moraldeficiency Maxwell's Demon

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who calls people bimbos anymore? Is that still a thing? Did no one tell me?

    Also I don't think I've ever heard a sentence that starts with no offense that wasn't intentionally and directly offensive. I mean no one ever says "no offense but you're a hell of a guy" (though I think I might start now).
     
    #623
  24. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    I used bimbo because it seemed like it was a weak insult.
     
    #624
  25. Optimus_Prime_

    Optimus_Prime_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    5,668
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought of something interesting last night and it's really been bothering me...

    ...Hollywood is basically one giant sex trafficking ring.

    Some of what I've read does sound like the pretty prudish reactions to some regular ole'fashion consenting adults being kinky, which is fine, or just not being good at relationships (of which I know many).

    No this is more the Feldman/Haim stuff. You have to believe those two are right. Now there's word that basically working on the Disney, Nick and Cartoon channels basically mean
    you may in all likelyhood have s***ed and f***ed some dick to get there.

    It's interesting to consider that big money families might end up havening pedophiles rather than turning them in. I decided whether or not I knew a family that did, and I do...

    Mine.

    Funny when it occurred to me. My grandmother and grandfather are Saints on my father's side, but her brother was a Catholic Priest who molested several dozen boys including my own Uncles. Never served a day. Never lost a dime. Simply cannot be a Priest. Takes escursions now and travels all over the world off of a severence package from his rich employers in the Vatican.

    But he wrote us all letters telling us how sad he was.

    Then I thought of this girl I knew from American Idol. We hung out a lot and she was a huge Patriots fan. Her Dad is real weird, and he's very evangelical Christian, claiming to have been an atheist. She says she's a virgin at 21, gorgeous btw, and yet she would always make awkward comments to me that seemed odd. She told me her Dad "wouldn't let her have a boyfriend". Also on Facebook her Dad stalks her; commenting any time boys do, on all her statuses and photos. He really seems to "shop" her around, picks every thing up, moves to Nashville suddenly, very secretive.

    Now of course I also faced a slight brush with one myself. Mine was not that bad, in fact I had the good mind to say STOP and recluse myself. I never talked about it much until like two years ago. Don't feel sorry for me there TRUST ME, I'm fine, but here's where a little personal knowledge feeds in.

    I know 95% of rapes go unreported according to estimates by the FBI. I know from personal experience and family members that it's not talked about, they want to keep that pristine image. Especially mine since they are rich.

    It's also just hard to talk about. So basically this has been a round about way of pointing out NOTHING happens to wealthy pedophiles and sex offenders AND victims rarely come forward, especially when bribed. Which happen with the Catholic Church and my Uncle. You can't make this stuff up.

    This isn't entirely an implausible theory.

    Jerry Sandusky of course being a recent example.

    People sometimes say often after one case comes forward "uh, now everyone wants to get in on the action. Durrrrrrrrrr!". That's idiotic. Most landmark court cases set something called pecedent, meaning the law from now on must in some way reflect on the findings of a ruling. Look at how all the rulings against police brutalities ramped up Internal Affairs for example.

    It really does make sense to when you think about the nature of finance in the film industry. A wealthy few have the money to financially back a big market picture. Casting Couch Snydrome, some of the rumors about Dan Schnieder, much of the "Old Hollywood Story" and the Disney director who only did 15 months and was rehired to work with Children (Victor Salva - he videotaped a 12 year old performing acts), it actually happened for sure.

    Most of what I read was mindless speculation from third or fourth parties, but the stuff that has more first hand accounts like Haim, Michael Jackson of course seemed weird, Heidi Fleiss, that prostitute soldier thing is just plain weird (y'all have fun with that...even Jon Stewart found that one lol), of course we saw the Catholic Church already, mine being a snapshot of that, and Roman Polanski, because who could forget about him.

    It's not entirely outlandish from science either. Humans definitely have Tribal tendencies and Tribes tend to adopt a 'protect yourself at all costs' mentality. Colleges do this. I remember in College, our suicidal student on our Hall was basically ignored, although when we notified Campus Police they genuinely tried to help him (we had nice people in that Department), and knew he had stopped taking his medication. When he got worse and worse they just sent him home. He killed himself there. Which was really sad. The College, in my mind, ultimately did the right thing, but in much the same way companies avoid injury compensation, it's also hedging your bets. Had he killed himself on Campus it would've cost an enormous amount of time and money. Ultimately though you can't blame them. But I think it highlights how rich people really are only concerned with not spending money, even when the right path is chosen.

    While a lot are bald assertions I don't for one find it odd that Hollywood could in fact function a lot like a Prostitution ring for the super rich, especially when Stars are 'rising'. The funny thing is most others countries are KNOWN for this, like North Korea, Bollywood, and Japan all have rampant problems (it seems Japan cuts out the middle man so it's just porn) with sex trafficking and pedophilia.

    The few who have come forward claim it's epidemic. If it gets the top blown off it'll be huge. If you really pooled all the big wigs and asked yourself, even if it were only 1/30 of all the potential people who could be involved, it would still be a huge problem. Like I say, once your an adult that's all you, but the pedophilia stuff and incest stuff that keeps coming up is a little frightening.
     
    #625
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"