Discussion: FOX News

[Dr. Evil]

as long as they're voting for republicans it's the republican party okay.
as long as they're caucusing with the republicans they count as republicans. when I see a tea party candidate running against a republican in the general with Palin's endorsement then I'll believe.

Names like Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Guiliani, Rick Perry or whoever are mentioned as Republican candidates for President in 2012 will not get any support of the Tea Party movement unless Plain decides not to run and endorses one of them and urges the Tea Partiers to support that candidate. None of those names strike to me as having Tea Party Support. They will support Palin 100%. I don't see the Tea Party supporting any Republican unless it's Palin or someone supported by Palin.

As for secession? That's not going to happen. It's nothing more than talk. If a state was to secede from the United States, who would support that state? Europe would not and I don't think China would either (although not sure about that). There would be little support from the United Nations itself from that seceding state. And would that state that seceded from the United States want the support of countries like Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Cuba, North Korea or Syria? I don't think that seceding state would want the support of those countries and would prefer support from France, Germany, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, The Rest of Western Europe and (maybe) China. That would not happen.

 

[hippie_hunter]

As for secession? That's not going to happen. It's nothing more than talk. If a state was to secede from the United States, who would support that state? Europe would not and I don't think China would either (although not sure about that). There would be little support from the United Nations itself from that seceding state. And would that state that seceded from the United States want the support of countries like Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Cuba, North Korea or Syria? I don't think that seceding state would want the support of those countries and would prefer support from France, Germany, Great Britain, Canada, Australia, The Rest of Western Europe and (maybe) China. That would not happen.

Nations that have secessionist movements of their own tend to not support other countries that secede. China is one of those due to Taiwan, Tibet, and Xinjiang having major or small secessionist movements.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Nations that have secessionist movements of their own tend to not support other countries that secede. China is one of those due to Taiwan, Tibet, and Xinjiang having major or small secessionist movements.

So yeah, China would not support a secessionist movement in the United States, further impeding that state's chances at recognition.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Remember NY-23? Where Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman, who was backed by a Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck endorsment, ran against Republican candidate Dede Scozzafava. It's already freaking happened and it backfired against the Tea Party badly on a night where moderate Scott Brown won, conservative Bob McDonnell won by running a campaign that stayed as far away from the Tea Party as possible, and Democrat Bill Owens won NY-23, a district that hadn't elected a Democrat in a 140 years.

And they continue to do so in primaries where the Tea Party is voting for candidates like Sharron Angle, Rand Paul, Joe Miller, and Ken Buck over party preferred candidates like State GOP Chairwoman Sue Lowden, Trey Greyson, Senator Lisa Murkowski, and Lt. Governor Jane Norton

They aren't Republicans, they're conservatives. Conservatives who are trying to hijack the Republican Party, but they're conservatives first and foremost. They put ideology above party. As opposed to most Democrats and Republicans currently in our government who put party above ideology.

still it's not a general election. I want to see a 3 way with the tea party willing to split the conservative vote on principle with the GOP. Until then it's just an ultra right wing of the GOP.

 

[hippie_hunter]

still it's not a general election. I want to see a 3 way with the tea party willing to split the conservative vote on principle with the GOP. Until then it's just an ultra right wing of the GOP.

That was a general election. It was a three way race with the Tea Party taking the principle conservative votes. Scozzafava taking the few remaining GOP die hards. And Owens taking the independent and Democratic votes which led him to victory. If Scozzafava were not on the ballot taking away about 8,600 votes, Hoffman would have won the election. The fact is that it has already happened.

The Tea Party Movement is not an ultra right wing of the GOP. It is a conservative movement that is being hijacked by extremist idelogists Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. It is a movement that is attempting to make the GOP more right winged.

 

[Heretic]

Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are not extremist ideologists. They are GOP lapdogs disguised as revolutionaries. The Democrats and Republicans saw that the opublic was near riot over what the Bush administration was doing, so the Democrats took on he "change" mantle and the Republicans set up their own controlled opposition for later use. People like Palin and Beck talked about not being controlled by the Republican establishment...talked about being truly independent...but at the end of the day, their jobs were to infiltrate the Tea Party, claim it as their own...and deliver the votes to whoever the Republican establishment wanted. People will have grown sick of Obama, and will be looking for a new "Change" candidate...so the Republican establishment can select someone, and then hide behind the Tea Party label and most people will never realize that they are being suckered once again. When it's all said and done, America will have gone through two "Change" revolutions in 4 years, and not a single thing about the system will have changed.

 

[StorminNorman]

still it's not a general election. I want to see a 3 way with the tea party willing to split the conservative vote on principle with the GOP. Until then it's just an ultra right wing of the GOP.

Define right wing. Technically, in America, far right wing is capito-anarchist.

 

[dnno1]

I seriously want you to think about this.....think really, really, hard.

WHY WOULD SHE?!

If she wasn't partisan like you or others are trying to say, then she would or at least try.

Palin is not a liberal or progressive. And no Democrat is going to become a part of the Tea Party, Paul or Palin faction. So why would she back a liberal, progressive, or Democratic candidate. Palin endorsing a liberal or progressive candidate would be like the Daily Kos endorsing Michelle Bachman. This is common sense.

There have been some Democrats who have joined the Tea Party and those who have approached them to vote for Democrats though.

Norman is absolutely right in this case though. You really can't call Palin a Republican anymore. She's an annoying conservative activist now and she goes off giving her support towards conservative candidates such as Doug Hoffman, the nominee of the Conservative Party, over Dede Scozzafava, the Republican nominee in the NY-23 Special Election. She supports more conservative candidates in primaries such as Rand Paul of Kentucky and Joe Miller of Alaska over party preferred candidates Kentucky Secretary of State Trey Greyson and Senior Senator Lisa Murkowski.

She is a Republican plant and is there to keep the Tea Party in line. The hope here is not to see the Tea Party take control this November, but to see that it is the Republicans that do. This has played out before with a diffenent name (see the John Birch Society). Even the same sponsors are involved. When all is said and done, you will see people like Sara Palin and Glen Beck endorsing Republicans come the Midterm Elections as well as in 2012.

She isn't a partisan, she's an ideologist. The Tea Party is not a Republican movement, it's a conservative movement. Conservative does not equal Republican. Just like how liberal or progressive does not equal Democrat.

What are you trying to say? Each party follows an ideology. Being an ideologist doesn't mean you are non-partisan, but more the opposite. It takes some effort to break from your ideology to not be partisan and I haven't seen that in either Palin nor Beck.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If she wasn't partisan like you or others are trying to say, then she would or at least try.

Ummmm....no. She wouldn't. There is no place for Democrats in the Tea Party Movement at all. She's out there to recruit far right winged candidates to mold the Republican Party in her image.

There have been some Democrats who have joined the Tea Party and those who have approached them to vote for Democrats though.

Opportunists.

She is a Republican plant and is there to keep the Tea Party in line. The hope here is not to see the Tea Party take control this November, but to see that it is the Republicans that do. This has played out before with a diffenent name (see the John Birch Society). Even the same sponsors are involved. When all is said and done, you will see people like Sara Palin and Glen Beck endorsing Republicans come the Midterm Elections as well as in 2012.

Palin and Beck are not keeping the Tea Party in line for the Republicans. They are creating a ruckus for the Republicans by endorsing candidates that are less electable and often not the candidate that is preferred by the party.

What are you trying to say? Each party follows an ideology. Being an ideologist doesn't mean you are non-partisan, but more the opposite. It takes some effort to break from your ideology to not be partisan and I haven't seen that in either Palin nor Beck.

You need to break away from this idea that conservative = Republican. If Beck and Palin were die hard Republican partisans they would have tried to make sure that Republican Dede Scozzafava would have been elected over Conservative Doug Hoffman. They would try not to sabotage moderate Republican campaigns in the primaries.

They are trying to mold the Republican Party to their ideology and make it more right winged. They are trying to hijack the party for their personal benefit.

 

[VampElvis]

.........What are you trying to say? Each party follows an ideology. ........

I think while each party professes an ideology it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the ideology. Otherwise we'd have seen some big time spending cuts over 8 of the last 9 years.

 

[Marx]

PICTURES FROM GLENN BECK'S 'RESTORING HONOR' RALLY
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/30/glenn-becks-restoring-hon_2_n_698834.html#s132420

It sure looks nonpartisan and diverse to me...

 

[Hobodeluxe]

That was a general election. It was a three way race with the Tea Party taking the principle conservative votes. Scozzafava taking the few remaining GOP die hards. And Owens taking the independent and Democratic votes which led him to victory. If Scozzafava were not on the ballot taking away about 8,600 votes, Hoffman would have won the election. The fact is that it has already happened.

The Tea Party Movement is not an ultra right wing of the GOP. It is a conservative movement that is being hijacked by extremist idelogists Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. It is a movement that is attempting to make the GOP more right winged.

actually that was a special election. for the remainder of a term if I'm not mistaken. and she was targeted because she had some extraneous third party ties to ACORN and wasn't "conservative" enough for them. too moderate. they couldn't tell her what to do and expect her to follow along lockstep. She left the race and threw her support to the Dem because she had been stabbed in the back by the "conservative' party. which was created to challenge her.

her biggest sin was caring about the rights of gays and blacks in her district over the bigoted edicts from some of the national party bosses.

 

[hippie_hunter]

actually that was a special election. for the remainder of a term if I'm not mistaken. and she was targeted because she had some extraneous third party ties to ACORN and wasn't "conservative" enough for them. too moderate. they couldn't tell her what to do and expect her to follow along lockstep. She left the race and threw her support to the Dem because she had been stabbed in the back by the "conservative' party. which was created to challenge her.

It was still a regular election. You're changing the terms of what you want. The fact is what you wanted has happened and it was an embarassing debacle for the Tea Party.

The Conservative Party has been around in New York since 1962. It wasn't created just to challenge her. In New York people can run with the nomination of several parties. The Democratic candidate usually gets the Working Families Party nomination and the Republican candidate usually gets the Conservative Party nomination. In the voting booth, while you can only vote for one candidate you can see a candidate's name pop up twice. For example when voting for Hillary Clinton you would see Hillary Clinton (Democratic Party) followed by other candidates and then you'll see Hillary Clinton (Working Families Party).

The Conservative Party is a separate organization from the New York State Republican Party. It has the right to nominate whatever candidate it wants whether it be the Republican candidate or its own like Doug Hoffman.

her biggest sin was caring about the rights of gays and blacks in her district over the bigoted edicts from some of the national party bosses.

Scozzafava should have never been the Republican nominee to begin with. I typically don't like to thrown the RINO name around, but that woman was a RINO. The only thing Republican about her was her support for gun rights.

You are flat out delusional on why conservatives didn't like her. Sure her support for gay rights was mentioned but the primary concerns were her support of the stimulus, federal funding for abortion, supporting card check legislation, refusing the rule out the public option, and the support of liberal groups such as ACORN, liberal bloggers such as Daily Kos, and the teachers union.

She wasn't stabbed in the back. She stabbed the GOP in the back. The national party and establishment fully supported and funded her. Then she withdrew from the race because it was blatantly obvious she was going to be in an embrassing third place. So when they had no candidate, the GOP endorsed Hoffman. Then feeling stabbed in the back for no legitimate reason, Scozzafava endorsed Owens.

She can go screw herself and she deserved to be stripped of her leadership positions in the State Assembly for her actions.

 

[VampElvis]

PICTURES FROM GLENN BECK'S 'RESTORING HONOR' RALLY
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/30/glenn-becks-restoring-hon_2_n_698834.html#s132420

It sure looks nonpartisan and diverse to me...

Of course it does - consider your source (even though it looks like a guy in the background of photo 6 might be black - can't believe that let that slip through).

I viewed the photos over at yahoo this morning and there were clearly black people in attendance. And let us not forget when evaluating these that black people account for much less than 20% of the US population.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

what I want to know is who stole the baggers' "honor" in the first place?

 

[Marx]

Of course it does - consider your source (even though it looks like a guy in the background of photo 6 might be black - can't believe that let that slip through).

I viewed the photos over at yahoo this morning and there were clearly black people in attendance. And let us not forget when evaluating these that black people account for much less than 20% of the US population.

I posted from that site because it's the only place I've seen so far to have any. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the makeup of this crowd was similar to the sea of caucasian people at the 2008 Republican National Convention. At least, that's the impression I got from CNN's coverage.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

I posted from that site because it's the only place I've seen so far to have any. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the makeup of this crowd was similar to the sea of caucasian people at the 2008 Republican National Convention.

well except for the inordinate amount of people of color onstage getting paid to appear/receiving medals.


King preached social justice. Beck rails against it. Jesus preached social justice,Beck rails against it.
I find it insulting that he used King's image and legacy to make himself some money and further his anti-social justice agenda.

 

[Kelly]

This is the silliest debate I have ever seen.....


I swear we have dipped to the bottom of the barrel.


I'm done here, the partisan quipping is bleeding into my posts as well, and I don't want to fall into that kind of posting.

I apologize to those that have been on the receiving end of those types of posts, and any posts that came across as childish, I apologize....

But, I can't post here anymore....

I can handle debate backed with solid, well thought out posts...

I cannot stomach the debate that I have seen here that resembles Hannity and Colmes debate.....

Again, I apologize if my posts have fallen into that category, that was not intent...but I'm sure it has happened more than once.

Debate on guys, just make it thought provoking, well thought out, passionate, heartfelt debate. Not a one up....

Thanks and good luck...

Kel

 

[hippie_hunter]

well except for the inordinate amount of people of color onstage getting paid to appear/receiving medals.


King preached social justice. Beck rails against it. Jesus preached social justice,Beck rails against it.
I find it insulting that he used King's image and legacy to make himself some money and further his anti-social justice agenda.

I really can't stand Beck one bit. He, along with Palin, have hijacked the Tea Party movement not out of any grand goal of making America better, but for their own personal selves.

Using King's image and legacy is just flat out disgusting.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I really can't stand Beck one bit. He, along with Palin, have hijacked the Tea Party movement not out of any grand goal of making America better, but for their own personal selves.

Using King's image and legacy is just flat out disgusting.

Beck is using King's legacy to prove he's not a racist. It's all he's doing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Beck is using King's legacy to prove he's not a racist. It's all he's doing.

I don't think he's using it to prove he's not a racist. I don't think he really gives a care whether or not people think he's a racist. He's abusing King's legacy to promote himself.

 

[Dr. Evil]

well except for the inordinate amount of people of color onstage getting paid to appear/receiving medals.


King preached social justice. Beck rails against it. Jesus preached social justice,Beck rails against it.
I find it insulting that he used King's image and legacy to make himself some money and further his anti-social justice agenda.

With one of them the presumptive National League MVP Albert Puljols.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Define right wing. Technically, in America, far right wing is capito-anarchist.

yeah that's it. those are the ones with the money at the top. who use their astroturfing and media to incite the fundies using nationalism and faith to get them fight for their tax cuts and to keep their D.C. influence strong.

 

[AG1973]

Define right wing. Technically, in America, far right wing is capito-anarchist.

Yep that's about right sounds like Palin and Bauchman

 

[imdaly]

PICTURES FROM GLENN BECK'S 'RESTORING HONOR' RALLY
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/30/glenn-becks-restoring-hon_2_n_698834.html#s132420

It sure looks nonpartisan and diverse to me...

How the heck are these pictures 'ridiculous'??

If someone holding an American flag, or wearing a shirt with the flag on it, or a shirt that says 'Restoring Honor', or heaven forbid a shirt with a George Washington quote on it are the best examples that site could find of 'ridiculousness' at the rally, then I'd say that was a pretty ridiculous-free event!

I posted from that site because it's the only place I've seen so far to have any.

You didn't look too hard then.

Check out Glenn Beck's own site for good pictures of the historic event:

On Stage: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5

The People: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5

The Crowd: Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5