Discussion: Gay Rights XV

[Human Torch]

I'm not really interested in getting into a big battle about the Bible and homosexuality again,but I think it's worth pointing out that when Christians say gays should "suppress the urge" it's not meant to be hypocritical or some huge burden that we ourselves don't bear.

If you're straight (and a Christian) and you're tempted to commit adultery,engage in prostitution,commit fornication - you are expected to "suppress the urge".

Porn is another big deal.This past week is a good example.What straight male is not tempted to see Jen Lawrence nude?But you're expected to "suppress the urge".

As Christians we are expected to "suppress the urge" Each And Every Day Of Our Lives.And we fail at it to one extent or the other All the Time.Maybe not today,but maybe next week.It's not always easy and God knows this.

So what I'm trying to say is you may not agree with the "suppress the urge" concept,but it's something we as Christians live by daily and is not meant as some flippant excuse."You're gay?Eh,just suppress the urge".

 

[Feenix]

I hate it when people say they "tolerate" gays. It sounds so condescending and ignorant.

I'm sure the KKK would say they "tolerate" black people as well.

Think of this definition of tolerate before you use that word to describe how you feel about a group of people:


-accept or endure (someone or something unpleasant or disliked) with forbearance.

By saying you tolerate someone, you're plainly saying that what they are or what they do is unpleasant, disliked, bad, etc.


Using the word tolerate to talk about gays is just rude.

 

[Majik1387]

I'd agree with your post if not for the use of the word forbearance, which is just another way of saying tolerate/tolerance.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm not really interested in getting into a big battle about the Bible and homosexuality again,but I think it's worth pointing out that when Christians say gays should "suppress the urge" it's not meant to be hypocritical or some huge burden that we ourselves don't bear.

If you're straight (and a Christian) and you're tempted to commit adultery,engage in prostitution,commit fornication - you are expected to "suppress the urge".

Porn is another big deal.This past week is a good example.What straight male is not tempted to see Jen Lawrence nude?But you're expected to "suppress the urge".

As Christians we are expected to "suppress the urge" Each And Every Day Of Our Lives.And we fail at it to one extent or the other All the Time.Maybe not today,but maybe next week.It's not always easy and God knows this.

So what I'm trying to say is you may not agree with the "suppress the urge" concept,but it's something we as Christians live by daily and is not meant as some flippant excuse."You're gay?Eh,just suppress the urge".

But what you cant grasp is being gay is not about "sexual urge" its about your heart and who you love. What you're asking of gay men and women is to give up there heart and happiness.

You can still be happy without porn and affairs... but for gay men and women its "be unhappy with someone you dont love, or be alone"

And thats incredibly psychologically damaging to people. And has been very much proven as such

 

[Majik1387]

Ugh, I hate when people quote others I have on ignore. The brain hurt from just reading that quote....

 

[Thundercrack85]

But what you cant grasp is being gay is not about "sexual urge" its about your heart and who you love. What you're asking of gay men and women is to give up there heart and happiness.

You can still be happy without porn and affairs... but for gay men and women its "be unhappy with someone you dont love, or be alone"

And thats incredibly psychologically damaging to people. And has been very much proven as such

Great post... but I dunno about that part.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Great post... but I dunno about that part.

Haha. You got my jist though

 

[wiegeabo]

I'll never understand why people are so invested in hating or being against something that has absolutely no impact on their lives. I hate Justin Bieber, but you don't see me trying to start a PAC to get his concerts banned. It's just mind-boggling how much free time and money to waste, the anti-gay marriage crowd has on their hands.

Expecially since we should just be working on getting him deported.

 

[Snow Queen]

Expecially since we should just be working on getting him deported.

No, no, you guys can keep him.

 

[SV Fan]

Personally I think if Christians want to go back to traditional marriage they should try make laws that polygamy is legal and the only way you can marry somebody is bartering off your daughters. Once they push for those things then I will take their anti gay marriage stance as a traditional marriage no no more seriously.

 

[Human Torch]

But what you cant grasp is being gay is not about "sexual urge" its about your heart and who you love. What you're asking of gay men and women is to give up there heart and happiness.

You can still be happy without porn and affairs... but for gay men and women its "be unhappy with someone you dont love, or be alone"

And thats incredibly psychologically damaging to people. And has been very much proven as such

Even if you want to discount all else,there's still fornication which is disproved of in the Bible.The bottom line is,we all have to resist doing "whatever we want" regardless if it's "harmless" or not if you want to do God's will.It's not a burden meant for one sin,but for many.

 

[Human Torch]

Personally I think if Christians want to go back to traditional marriage they should try make laws that polygamy is legal and the only way you can marry somebody is bartering off your daughters. Once they push for those things then I will take their anti gay marriage stance as a traditional marriage no no more seriously.

God never approved polygamy in the bible.It happened, but He never advocated it.It was a cultural thing.From the beginning God intended one man for one woman.

 

[Feenix]

Even if you want to discount all else,there's still fornication which is disproved of in the Bible.The bottom line is,we all have to resist doing "whatever we want" regardless if it's "harmless" or not if you want to do God's will.It's not a burden meant for one sin,but for many.

Well then, just let gays marry and then they won't be fornicating out of wedlock.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Sexual repression is a sad, sad thing.

 

[Human Torch]

Well then, just let gays marry and then they won't be fornicating out of wedlock.

That would suggest the bible supported homosexuality.......

 

[Feenix]

That would suggest the bible supported homosexuality.......

It's a good thing that what the bible says has no bearing on human rights laws (thankfully).

And apparently, the bible supports love. So which one trumps the other? Love of everyone or hatred of homosexuals?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Not if some people on this forum – who will go unnamed –*have anything to say about it.

 

[SV Fan]

God never approved polygamy in the bible.It happened, but He never advocated it.It was a cultural thing.From the beginning God intended one man for one woman.

Well if polygamy was good enough for God's chosen people it should be good enough for us. Also banging the handmaiden like Abraham did is perfectly fine

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Even if you want to discount all else,there's still fornication which is disproved of in the Bible.The bottom line is,we all have to resist doing "whatever we want" regardless if it's "harmless" or not if you want to do God's will.It's not a burden meant for one sin,but for many.

Pardon me for not supporting a following that rarely can make up its mind on what to or to not follow. Point in case. You can believe what you want. But with you being so strict with the bible on this subject I also hope you're just as strict about another major issue, Idolizing false idols which really sucks when you're on a superhero message board.

Me loving my boyfriend is equal to any other couples. Its hardly a guilty pleasure nor shameful act. No "temptation" there at all its hardly an "addiction". Religion first and foremost is about love. Marx makes me a better man. I want no part with any belief who can't fathom that. But thankfully most christian denominations are coming around and realizing that themselves.

You can go back to what must be a miserably boring life of staring at a wall devoid of any joy because anything you enjoy that brings you happiness can easily be turned into "giving into temptation" it sound miserable and unlike the god I learned about growing up when I did attend church. But to each there own.

You can believe what you want. But dont dictate my rights on those beliefs. Trust me.. If I didnt believe in true equal right and freedom id be more than happy if organized religion was banned. But thankfully I do not feel that way. Unlike members of your own beliefs.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

That would suggest the bible supported homosexuality.......

The Bible suggested a lot of things. I find it ironic that southern red states have the greatest divorce rates in the country, but you don't hear Southern baptist leaders going off about what the Bible said about THAT practice. Such hypocrisy.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

To Spider boy, as a Christian I believe in the bible point blank. Yes, there are customs and certain things that aren't acceptable today but overall a large majority of what the bible talks about is STILL going on today just in modern form. For example, I love superheroes but I am not claiming them to be my God not do I worship them or putting them before God so I am not idolizing them. Also, spider boy my church is friendly towards gays and we get criticized by other churches for it. But like my pastor has pointed out, we welcome gays the same as people who commit adultery and other sins. We won't ever hold gay weddings or support or condone those relationships however. Our hope is that they might have an encounter with God and ultimately repent. Our job is to teach God's word and live our lives as pleasing to him as we can. That means reaching out to the lost etc. However, we are NOT the ones going around trying to shove our beliefs down anyone's throats.

Now I am not gay, but I understand it's extremely hard to turn off feelings you have had for a lifetime. It would be hard for me to just stop liking women so I get where you're coming from. I am not judging anyone. Because no one is perfect and without sin. Also, I have to control my sexual urges everyday ( trust me its not easy) so Christians are just picking on gay people or saying only they have to control their feelings etc. I am still a virgin but I feel as though the right woman is worth waiting for. Also, being a christian certainly isn't boring or joyless as you described. That's a common misconception. I do most things most people in their 20's do minus pre marital sex and drugs such as weed. I can still drink a beer, or wine as long as I don't intentionally drunk , knowing my limits is key. I can even go to a bar/nightclub if I chose, but that not really my thing.

I had some incredible experiences in my life that I wouldn't have experienced if it weren't for my faith. I have also met people from all over the world, all walks of live, and from diffrent religions and non believers. Just my two cents. Hopefully, I kinda open some people's minds up here, and clarify that not all Christians are hateful towards gays.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

To Spider boy, as a Christian I believe in the bible point blank. Yes, there are customs and certain things that aren't acceptable today but overall a large majority of what the bible talks about is STILL going on today just in modern form. For example, I love superheroes but I am not claiming them to be my God not do I worship them or putting them before God so I am not idolizing them. Also, spider boy my church is friendly towards gays and we get criticized by other churches for it. But like my pastor has pointed out, we welcome gays the same as people who commit adultery and other sins. We won't ever hold gay weddings or support or condone those relationships however. Our hope is that they might have an encounter with God and ultimately repent. Our job is to teach God's word and live our lives as pleasing to him as we can. That means reaching out to the lost etc. However, we are NOT the ones going around trying to shove our beliefs down anyone's throats.

Now I am not gay, but I understand it's extremely hard to turn off feelings you have had for a lifetime. It would be hard for me to just stop liking women so I get where you're coming from. I am not judging anyone. Because no one is perfect and without sin. Also, I have to control my sexual urges everyday ( trust me its not easy) so Christians are just picking on gay people or saying only they have to control their feelings etc. I am still a virgin but I feel as though the right woman is worth waiting for. Also, being a christian certainly isn't boring or joyless as you described. That's a common misconception. I do most things most people in their 20's do minus pre marital sex and drugs such as weed. I can still drink a beer, or wine as long as I don't intentionally drunk , knowing my limits is key. I can even go to a bar/nightclub if I chose, but that not really my thing.

I had some incredible experiences in my life that I wouldn't have experienced if it weren't for my faith. I have also met people from all over the world, all walks of live, and from diffrent religions and non believers. Just my two cents. Hopefully, I kinda open some people's minds up here, and clarify that not all Christians are hateful towards gays.

My only problem is you still compare being gay as being an infliction or an addiction. Almost a disease people are cursed with. You wouldn't like it if I compared your religion to a cult. As I do respect who you are.

And we can list billions of reasons why thats not so, until we are blue in the face, and it wont amount to a hill of beans to you. Thats blind faith. Which as history has shown, is never good. Im a firm believer in that questioning and testing ones faith makes ones faith stronger. Its crazy to me that one can realize many aspects are out dated and not considered "right" today ir valid... but cant even remotely believe that this issue too might be incorrect.

And again. Youre not welcoming to gays if you just want them to be miserable and keep comparing them with adulterers. Thats not love, thats not "understabding" or "acceptance". Thats pity and "we love you if you change being who you are"

Again, at least your church has a first step down I guess... but be careful on the never say never side of things.. the methodists once thought that too, and now theyre one of the most accepting christian churches....

I mean... if you woke up tomorrow and your churches stance would change what would you do? Leave the church? Not believe in it but still go? Start accepting it ?

Also. I know you and torch cant be part of the same denomination for I feel you're a bit more understanding and slightly less black and white. I suggest you go back and read my actual response to you, not him. I was trying to prove a point with his absolutism.

and yes, i know you can love people without understanding them. But i don't believe you can love them without the "attempt" to understand. "trying" is an act of compassion and love.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

on a side note, Marx and I noticed this year at Columbus's Pride Festival, the Parade more than doubled in size.. due to the amount of churches now partaking after progression has moved forward. All very supportive and most were holding signs asking us to forgive them for their past.

It was really touching. The parade is ridiculously long now, but it really was amazing to see how many churches have come out in support even when compared to last year.

 

[SlamAdams]

Honestly, I don't much care if people who get caught saying how they don't support gay marriage have their careers destroyed. I'd say it's karmic payback for eons of things being the other way around. Actors who had their careers ruined cuz they got outed during the 50's and 60's. Brilliant writers like Oscar Wilde who got outed and spent the rest of their lives rotting away in prison for loving someone of the same sex. Hell, just look at the origin of the F-Word if you wanna know how bad it's been for homosexuals. Don't even get me started on the plight of the transgendered.

Not saying things haven't been bad or unfair, but this seems like over-correcting. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

So if some pampered Millionaire bigot loses some endorsement deals cuz he thinks gays are icky, I'd say it's a good start to balancing the scales.

And of course, for some reason, the more money they make, the more comfortable everyone feels kicking them down the econ-ladder.

Even a-holes have to earn a paycheck.

 

[wiegeabo]

To Spider boy, as a Christian I believe in the bible point blank. Yes, there are customs and certain things that aren't acceptable today but overall a large majority of what the bible talks about is STILL going on today just in modern form.

So basically it's picking and choosing what to follow, and no longer following certain things because of cultural and attitude shifts.

I'm not sure what point blank belief means, but I don't think it's that.

But I guess that just means we have to wait a few more years for the cultural and attitude shifts towards gays to cause those parts of the bible to be ignored like the parts about stoning and slavery and wearing different fabrics.